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Rewarding Illegal Immigration?
- Thread starter member2686
- Start date
And I would just also like to introduce myself here in this very intelligent forum. I am a Filipino and as most of you know a lot of my countrymen are staying there in America through both the legal process and other ways that could be against the law. A lot of you have said some harsh statements against people who may have stepped and stayed illegally but I would just like to open your eyes and try to picture yourselves in the shoes of those that you have termed "alien invaders."
Like most ethnic groups, my countrymen have also been misjudged and have been wrongfully stigmatized. In some countries in Europe and even in Asia, for example, some dictionaries have defined the Filipina (a woman from the Philippines) as nothing more than a domestic helper. Also, in Japan, a Filipina is often generalized as a sexual worker due to the growing number of women from my country to work there as such. These are just a few examples of what the world has labeled us.
Now, do you think that we like to do these kinds of jobs? Do you think that we would like to be separated from our families in order to make a decent living for them? The answer is no. But sadly, there are just limited options for most of us here in our country due to the many problems that we are experiencing here. I'm not blaming anyone for what has happened here. But in order to survive and live decently, we have to find ways that may not be approved by some groups.
We are not going into your country to steal your food. We will work for them. Just to be able put some food in our families' table. Yes, I know that you are going to say that people who do such things are a threat to your economy. But you also have to admit that YOU have also benefited from the sacrifices of my countrymen. Here is an example. In your country (America and other countries in the world), the ones who take care of your old folks are mostly Filipino caregivers. (In our country, the family members are the ones who take care of their old folks. Now, I am not saying that what's happening in your country is wrong. It's just that your culture is different from ours.) It's also just that we happened to be able to do what you don't like to do. Therefore, we both benefit from this.
It's just as simple as this. There are jobs that both you and I don't want to do but have to be done. It just happened that we are in a desperate situation for some financial gain in order to survive and you just happened to be in a position to provide it. Therefore, we do it for you, you pay us, everyone is happy.
I am not saying that America and all other rich countries should tear down their borders and allow everyone to enter their lands. But discriminating, labelling and kicking people out is NOT the solution for this problem. I believe that what should be done is for these rich countries to provide more opportunity for others who happened to live in less fortunate countries.
Now, before anyone of you start bitching me about what I have said I would just like to ask you 2 questions.
Are you willing to wipe another persons's ass? For how much?
Thanks
Like most ethnic groups, my countrymen have also been misjudged and have been wrongfully stigmatized. In some countries in Europe and even in Asia, for example, some dictionaries have defined the Filipina (a woman from the Philippines) as nothing more than a domestic helper. Also, in Japan, a Filipina is often generalized as a sexual worker due to the growing number of women from my country to work there as such. These are just a few examples of what the world has labeled us.
Now, do you think that we like to do these kinds of jobs? Do you think that we would like to be separated from our families in order to make a decent living for them? The answer is no. But sadly, there are just limited options for most of us here in our country due to the many problems that we are experiencing here. I'm not blaming anyone for what has happened here. But in order to survive and live decently, we have to find ways that may not be approved by some groups.
We are not going into your country to steal your food. We will work for them. Just to be able put some food in our families' table. Yes, I know that you are going to say that people who do such things are a threat to your economy. But you also have to admit that YOU have also benefited from the sacrifices of my countrymen. Here is an example. In your country (America and other countries in the world), the ones who take care of your old folks are mostly Filipino caregivers. (In our country, the family members are the ones who take care of their old folks. Now, I am not saying that what's happening in your country is wrong. It's just that your culture is different from ours.) It's also just that we happened to be able to do what you don't like to do. Therefore, we both benefit from this.
It's just as simple as this. There are jobs that both you and I don't want to do but have to be done. It just happened that we are in a desperate situation for some financial gain in order to survive and you just happened to be in a position to provide it. Therefore, we do it for you, you pay us, everyone is happy.
I am not saying that America and all other rich countries should tear down their borders and allow everyone to enter their lands. But discriminating, labelling and kicking people out is NOT the solution for this problem. I believe that what should be done is for these rich countries to provide more opportunity for others who happened to live in less fortunate countries.
Now, before anyone of you start bitching me about what I have said I would just like to ask you 2 questions.
Are you willing to wipe another persons's ass? For how much?
Thanks
********** said:
You're just not seeing my point and that's fine we all have differnt views. Am I a racist?? In certain ways yes I am. Am I a white supremist? No, there is a big difference. We have this new "policy" at work called "Diversity". Which means that everyone has a shot at a job no matter the race, sex or whatever. Now a friend of mine applied for a postion that he deserved, he's worked for the company for 3 years now. He did not get the job, as over qualified as he was he was denied. The job went to a black girl who came in off the street and got the minimum training required. Applied for the position and got it. Why, you ask? For the sole purpose that there were very few blacks in that position and the company didn't want a problem to occur. Yeah right, you would say Fox just a white man's hatred towards blacks coming to the front again. Nope, it's because if she didn't get it she could cry the "R" word....racism. And boy would there be a show to see then. We'd have Al Sharpton down here and Jesse Jackson and all these other assholes who back their "oppressed" people. Fact is that the black people have a lot more power then you think in this country. No one wants to labeled a racist (except me) so the rest of us have to give in to avoid embarrasing apologies on national television. You're going to continue the arguement that I'm racist about this particular issue, not really I just think it's wrong. But I would like you to answer me a few questions:
1. Why is there a BET network and not a WET network?
2. Why is there a Miss Black America pageant and not a Miss White America pageant? Last time I saw it there were ALL races in the Miss America pageant, what you have to have two? Hell Vanessa Williams won and she's black!
In my eyes it would seem that the black Americans are purposely segregating themselves from the rest of us. Why is that? You don't want White's or Asians or Latino's messing up your fun? Are we really all that bad? These are things that boggle my mind and I guess make me a racist.
You say that most whites are rolling in money. Last time I checked Oprah was a billionaire!! Shaq makes a pretty decent wage and that guy Denzel does pretty good too. Bill Gates wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth and look at him now. I truly think it's you who are the racist here.
As for illegals walking in Washington.....How are we supposed to hear what they have to say if they can't even cry for help in English??? Can't give rights to those with whom you can't have a conversation with. They can't read but we'll give them a driver's license. Shit, I went to China and you can bet your ass I learned a few useful phrases before I touched down.
Actually, Bill Gates was born with a silver spoon in his mouth!lordvader1 said:
His parents were already multi-millionaires.
I've said it before and I'll say it again ...
It's never the immigrant that is the problem, but the American ready to exploit them.
The H1B Visa system is indentured servitude.
Many states already give social services to illegals.
And Americans who pay illegals below minimum wage aren't prosecuted when caught.
That's the entire problem in a nutshell.
It's not so different than what the Romans ran into either.
And their solution, same as the politicians, destroyed Rome in a century too.
I have constantly proposed we give Green Cards to immigrants.
That will force employers to pay them fair wages.
If employers have to pay fair wages, then they wouldn't hire an immigrant unless they are qualified.
These Green Cards have additional stipulations.
One is no social services the first 3 years.
Another is that they must hold a job, pay taxes, etc...
If they don't, they are deported after a year -- unless they are supported by family (and not social services).
You solve the problem by giving immigrants fair access to the American dream.
And you root out the welfare problem by taking it away, completely.
Immigrants who produce will be allowed to stay.
Those who don't will be deported.
It's no different than what the Germans, Irish and others had to deal with in the century before.
They didn't have free welfare and social services.
If you take that away, you get the real people who want to be here and make American great!
Language is not the barrier.
As an American, I welcome a bi-lingual America -- although that means as much as I'm willing to learn Espanol, immigrants should be willing to learn English.
It's a fair trade.
-- ProfV
P.S. The only thing that bothers me about Hispanic-Americans is that they tend to discriminate in a corporate culture when they achieve management positions -- and they do it blantantly. I have run into this first-hand, as have a few of my African-Americans co-workers. If we actually start enforcing employment discrimination laws against Hispanic-Americans, we would solve that problem too. It bit me, hard, very early in my career.
It's never the immigrant that is the problem, but the American ready to exploit them.
The H1B Visa system is indentured servitude.
Many states already give social services to illegals.
And Americans who pay illegals below minimum wage aren't prosecuted when caught.
That's the entire problem in a nutshell.
It's not so different than what the Romans ran into either.
And their solution, same as the politicians, destroyed Rome in a century too.
I have constantly proposed we give Green Cards to immigrants.
That will force employers to pay them fair wages.
If employers have to pay fair wages, then they wouldn't hire an immigrant unless they are qualified.
These Green Cards have additional stipulations.
One is no social services the first 3 years.
Another is that they must hold a job, pay taxes, etc...
If they don't, they are deported after a year -- unless they are supported by family (and not social services).
You solve the problem by giving immigrants fair access to the American dream.
And you root out the welfare problem by taking it away, completely.
Immigrants who produce will be allowed to stay.
Those who don't will be deported.
It's no different than what the Germans, Irish and others had to deal with in the century before.
They didn't have free welfare and social services.
If you take that away, you get the real people who want to be here and make American great!
Language is not the barrier.
As an American, I welcome a bi-lingual America -- although that means as much as I'm willing to learn Espanol, immigrants should be willing to learn English.
It's a fair trade.
-- ProfV
P.S. The only thing that bothers me about Hispanic-Americans is that they tend to discriminate in a corporate culture when they achieve management positions -- and they do it blantantly. I have run into this first-hand, as have a few of my African-Americans co-workers. If we actually start enforcing employment discrimination laws against Hispanic-Americans, we would solve that problem too. It bit me, hard, very early in my career.
member2686
Banned
You can speak Martian, Vulcan, or Pig-Latin if you choose, but don't scream "discrimination" when no one hires you... In the end, your economic success or failure relies upon one thing - your ability to add value to an employer's bottom line/profitability.
:2 cents:
:2 cents:
qweretyuiopas@
Banned
Nightfly said:
Booya! lol
Nightfly said:
Agreed! But the problem with meritocracy is that it is pre-programmed on a social level to respond to certain stimuli. In other words, if your black and you have an affinity for ebonics and Sean Jean, nobody is going to hire you even if your a Rhodes or a Fulbright scholor. People assume we live in a world of objectivity but in reality, perceptions are inherently subjective. There are social limitations to sucess that must be deconstructed before we can truly say that value-added efforts are the end-all indicator of someones professional worth! There is that language of "good fit" "bad fit" that still needs to be addressed, depending on what side of the assimilation argument you reside. (I think you all can tell where I stand).
On the other hand the good professor voluptuary is correct in stating the double-standards associated with affirmative action. I back him on the call to offer green cards because de facto this will drain the labor pool and market for illegals and force us to do what we're doing anyway, exploit low wage labor in other peoples countries...Oh did I mention thats going to play a big role in sinking our economy too?
Oops, yup you're right about that one. I think I got my point across though.Prof Voluptuary said:
Re: I've said it before and I'll say it again ...
Please don't play with my words to fit an argument.
"Willing" was the key word to note, which you seemingly did not.
That's basically what I said.********** said:
Please don't play with my words to fit an argument.
"Willing" was the key word to note, which you seemingly did not.
member2686
Banned
Uh oh... PV and Fox are about to square off...
*Buys his popcorn and waits for the verbal bloodshed in the ring, but is worried about his bandwidth due to the prolixity of the 2 members' posts (like I, of all people here, can criticize lol)*
:nanner: :hatsoff: :thumbsup:
*Buys his popcorn and waits for the verbal bloodshed in the ring, but is worried about his bandwidth due to the prolixity of the 2 members' posts (like I, of all people here, can criticize lol)*
:nanner:
:hatsoff: :thumbsup: member2686
Banned
Update bump... This is interesting.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/11/immigrants.icytruck.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/11/immigrants.icytruck.ap/index.html
I would rather talk of how well integrates immigrants to a foreign culture than something else. Some of them succeed but others don't. Yes of course when you pay someone under the table or at the black it is not the same thing than when he has an official salary and when you as employer has to pay taxes and probably other fees. Some people described that using illegal immigration payed at a very low wage as underground economy, it is true.
illegal immigration is just that..... "welcome to the country, however you have broken your first rule here in our fine nation, you will go to a detention centre to be processed" Is my opinion of the issue.
They broke a law and they have to be treated like someone who has broken the law. People in australia and other nations who plead with the governments to free them are stupid. Look at britan and other nations that do not have border control. Countless untracked people leeching off the state and other who are here legally are staved of oppurtunity.
rant over.
They broke a law and they have to be treated like someone who has broken the law. People in australia and other nations who plead with the governments to free them are stupid. Look at britan and other nations that do not have border control. Countless untracked people leeching off the state and other who are here legally are staved of oppurtunity.
rant over.
ÆGEAN said:
I think it goes more like this for us...
"You are trespassing and are not welcome! No, you cannot give birth to your child on our soil. You will now be deported back across the border, where we know you will just try to enter again until you succeed, and there is nothing we can do to stop you. ....¿Comprende?"
member2686
Banned
Re: I've said it before and I'll say it again ...
Oh please... Are you high all the time or something? lol :eek: Get real and take a trip off "the utopian clowd" once in awhile. People don't move to Austria and demand to speak Swahili there - they'd fucking better learn German or they're toast.
That's reality. It's not racism or discrimination - it's reality. Deal with it. :eek: :tongue: lol
:2 cents:
Oh please... Are you high all the time or something? lol :eek:
Get real and take a trip off "the utopian clowd" once in awhile. People don't move to Austria and demand to speak Swahili there - they'd fucking better learn German or they're toast.That's reality. It's not racism or discrimination - it's reality. Deal with it. :eek: :tongue: lol
:2 cents:
********** said:
Do you understand the definition of the word "willing"?
From 1913 Websters ...
To form a distinct volition of; to determine by an act of choice
No offense Fox, but sometimes you just want to argue, and it's often from a standpoint of ignorance. I'm not saying immigrants must, I'm saying immigrants and existing Americans citizens should practice the Golden Rule!.
Do you REMOTELY understand the word "willing"?********** said:
From 1913 Websters ...
To form a distinct volition of; to determine by an act of choice
No offense Fox, but sometimes you just want to argue, and it's often from a standpoint of ignorance. I'm not saying immigrants must, I'm saying immigrants and existing Americans citizens should practice the Golden Rule!.
Prosecute the Americans that help and exploit them ...
When Clinton appointed his first Attorney General, she was caught red-handed with a pair of illegal immigrants. She underpaid them. She didn't withhold a single penny for social security or income tax. And the second they were discovered, they were deported. She should have been thrown in jail or at least paid a stiff fine to the public for damage to the economy, as well as owed social security and taxes for the rate of compensation paid.
I was extremely appauled when virtually none of our TV media gave her a severe spanking (as much as I don't approve of Fox News, they would have gone after stories like this if they were national back then) -- especially when her attitude was, "oh, everyone does it in California." She knowingly knew they were illegal, and even helped the husband get a driver's license and turn around and intentionally paid them dirt. I can forgive Americans who actually pay them their worth, withhold social security and income tax in an escrow account, etc... But no one does because they might as well just hire a legal immigrant or American citizen then!
But no, instead, we let Americans break the law, damage our economy, but blame the illegal immigrants. The problem is never been the immigrant, but the American ready to exploit them.
ÆGEAN said:
You solve the immigration problem by prosecuting the Americans that knowingly help them. Illegal immigration would not be a problem if they weren't exploited to replace legal, American workers (both immigrant and citizens).kungfudude said:
When Clinton appointed his first Attorney General, she was caught red-handed with a pair of illegal immigrants. She underpaid them. She didn't withhold a single penny for social security or income tax. And the second they were discovered, they were deported. She should have been thrown in jail or at least paid a stiff fine to the public for damage to the economy, as well as owed social security and taxes for the rate of compensation paid.
I was extremely appauled when virtually none of our TV media gave her a severe spanking (as much as I don't approve of Fox News, they would have gone after stories like this if they were national back then) -- especially when her attitude was, "oh, everyone does it in California." She knowingly knew they were illegal, and even helped the husband get a driver's license and turn around and intentionally paid them dirt. I can forgive Americans who actually pay them their worth, withhold social security and income tax in an escrow account, etc... But no one does because they might as well just hire a legal immigrant or American citizen then!
But no, instead, we let Americans break the law, damage our economy, but blame the illegal immigrants. The problem is never been the immigrant, but the American ready to exploit them.
member2686
Banned
I meant to type "cloud" above in post #69 but typed "clowd." lol Bad typo! It was late and I was tired. lol :computer:
lol Bad typo! It was late and I was tired. lol :computer:Similar threads
