Bill Ayers was a Weatherman Terrorist and Obama is his friend, denying it and showing him as an innocent guy is really insulting especially when law enforcement officials and military personnel died in the Weathermen terrorist attacks. Obama was a sympathizer of the Weathermen terrorist group.
Political Strategy 101 Did McCain Blew it?
- Thread starter don_equis
- Start date
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
No not at all man.
But She will have to be pretty terrible in my opinion to be worse than Obama.
I won't reiterate to a great extent at this moment other than to say I have looked at his record both personal and political, listened to his speeches came to the decision that he is completly full of shit.
Now where has that what hand do you masterbate with thread gone to ?
I have some serious input to contribute.
Obama was born in 1962, he was a very small child when the weatherman were around in late 60s,I'm sure at that age he had not even heard of them.Yes he knows Ayers now, thats not the same as being sympathetic to the weatherman.
And just as a side note and this has nothing to do with Obama.
The 60s were a very turbulent violent time with young men being drafted to go and kill people who had done nothing to deserve such.Not surprising that violence was met with some violence opposing it.
If you expect him to understand you. You're expecting too much.:georges:
Does simply winning a primary (regardless of the number of votes) certify someone's readiness? (George Bush?)
Does simply convincing a lot of people mean that someone is ready? (George Bush?)
Is that sufficient evidence? Case closed?
Vice presidential nominees always need only one vote.
Do we need a separate vice presidential primary?
A presidential candidate has a far greater responsibility to demonstrate that they are ready to lead since they are much more than "possibly so close" to being president.
Is there anyone in their right mind who might question whether Barack Obama is ready to lead and be the president of the United States? After all 18 million people seem to think so...
Can we get an expert opinion? Perhaps from a person with 30 years of foreign policy experience. A person so knowledgeable in such matters that it lead many people to believe that he is "right" ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOa989IRYw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8
I did not say it certified he was ready,I only said a lot more people have determined he is than she can claim.And yes in a democracy thats all you need to be found to be ready,convince others of it.Whether you truly were or not is a subjective judgement that can only be made after the fact.No we don't need a seperate primary for VP.VP choice is seen as the 1st test of the Presidential nominee's judgment.I think it won't be hard to portray Obama's choice and judgement in his pick as being superior,do you?
This is true without doubt. but...
this
and this
have not been sufficiently demonstrated.
Unlike Obama's 20 year friendship and mentorship with Jeremiah Wright, the closeness of Obama's friendship with Ayers has not been firmly established IMO.
Aye. At times one should question to themselves whether to continue to frustrate yourself by posting in the thread.. or to just stop until you're called out. I find repubs get restless in their zeal while demo's have to rest from the constant BS the other side can throw at you.
Meanwhile we're all zigzagging back and forth picking up their pieces while the argument skews to the side. Far from the original argument. The one thing a demo must never forget: STICK TO THE ARGUMENT. They'll drive you off it every chance they have, and tire you until they're the only ones talking. Then, they declare themselves winner.
Ahem, so while the newcomers are arguing politics, the old bastids stand by and always, ALWAYS call EVERYONE out for being new.
"Oh I was around back when they said it would be another ice age! Global warming is a hoax! HARUMPH! HARUMPH!"
"Experience? HAH! Spiro Agnew had no experience and look how awesome the Nixon era was! GRUMBLE GRUMBLE!"
"YOU YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPERS BRING ME BACK MY CANE RIGHT NOW! My, in my day the younguns respected their elders.. grumble.. I've been in the military 228 years and I know.. harumph.. and another thing, you idiot upstarts dont know your ass from your rectums you silly ... grumble harumph.."
So there is no real winning, but fellow dems.. keep up the fight.
"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one"
~John Lennon, Imagine
why not? it means no more terrorist attacks against the US if obama wins
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
If only that were true.
It's hard to make the case that Obama's judgment, preparedness and decision making is sound in this first test when the very product of that decision testifies explicitly to Obama's lack of judgment and preparedness.
If we agree that his choice of Biden is sound then we are compelled to agree with Biden that Obama is not a sound choice.
If Biden suddenly claims that Obama is now mysteriously ready, the situation is no better.
If Biden's support is so fickle that it depends on what is politically expedient for Biden's own political aspirations then he proves himself to be a poor choice.
Of course he is fickle. He is a politician. Just like Obama and McCain and 99% of all politician's are fickle.
Other than the fact that BOTH have served together on various committees and Obama actually started his presidential run in Ayers' living room, but then what does that matter?:o
A person is known by the company they keep. the people they know. What jobs are these clowns going to have if Obama gets elected?
Think we have had such a converstion before.You eithier do not know or wish to ignore the history of such things.Things said in primarys which are later all forgotten is the rule instead of the exception.Bush 41 before he became Reagans runningmate had ran against him in the primaries and called his economic policy "Voodoo economics".Its all forgotten once the race for the nomination is over.Just as Romney now has nice things to say about McCain where before he was blasting him.
IT'S CALLED POLITICS!! lol
It's not a vocation for the meek or thin skinned.As Casey Stengal once said it's not how you play the game it's winning that counts but I know you like many people don't approve of that.It's like how people whine about "negative ads" ,but they work so they get used.
Great movie that was made many many years ago showed exactly what presidential politics was about and how the game was played called "The Best Man".TCM shows it fairly often(it's on sept 4th) and I would highly recommend it.There is a great actor in it who plays the outgoing President who just rips Heny Fonda for not having the stomach for the rough and tumble part of running and tells him if you can't do the things neccesary to win you are unfit to be President and won't be able to do some of the rough things you will need to do as President.
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0057883/
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
Good point. But with respect Duke there is no way to know that.
Its no surprise that i feel the complete opposiite.
But one thing is for sure, People can hate Bush all they want but the simple fact is American soil has not been attacked since 2001.
Do we really think the terrorists responsible and otherts decided just to stop after sept. 11?
The think I give Bush and the existing Administration credit and thanks for, that they have stepped up the effort to protect the country and its people.
Unike Bill Clinton.
What will Obama to protect us ?
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
Excuse my grammar errors in the above post, I was masterbating as I wrote it.:spump:
Just wanna say that this Debate will never end and I feel its because all who post here Love the country and want what is best for it.
Compassion for something brings out strong opinions and emotions.
Great thread.
Just wanna say that this Debate will never end and I feel its because all who post here Love the country and want what is best for it.
Compassion for something brings out strong opinions and emotions.
Great thread.
How do you know he didn't?
And whether he did or not, there was never any real chance she'd have accepted. With her ego and ambition she isn't about to play second fiddle to anybody.
:rofl:
exaggerate much?
In an election year where the VP choices are pivotal, it didn't much matter who McCain chose. The mere fact he was announcing his choice insured he'd at least share center stage yesterday.
But I did enjoy your imagery. It was just so creative!
Do you know how almost nothing is private anymore? If he had at least offered it to her it would have been all over the media by now or someone would have leaked it. Everything points out that he did not, instead he chosed that Biden dude whose jokes no one seems to get. Yes Hillary probably would have turned it down, but seeing how she is so much in debt, that would have been very stupid. A Obama/Hillary ticket would have been the ultimate symbolism of "change". This Obama/Biden ticket pales to the McCain/Palin ticket that at the moment seems more like the change the Dems were talking about. Damn a Perot/Hilton (Paris) would have been the best!
Obama, "08". Hmmmmmmmmmm, I just don't see it. The faux pax with the property rights issue really drove the nail home for me. And none of his multitude of apologised will do any good. He is simply the greater of two evils......................if you have a pot to piss in, it's not yours
Politicians and social workers know an awful lot of people.
I would say it depends on how close that relationship is. Until there is something more substantial, we have to give Obama the benefit of the doubt on this issue IMO.
To quote Dick Morris when he was interviewed by Sean Hanity (7:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJrNQBUVMvo&feature=related
"We all have different thresholds of proof and warning" and it may be "something we have to monitor very closely, but ... it's got to be a real close association."
For me, these are nearly irrelevant...
To serve on an academic panel together
To have your kids attend the same schools
And the "living room launch" may deserve more attention but is not iron clad proof of anything....
According to a Chicago-based blogger named Maria Warren...
Obama gave a "standard, innocuous little talk" in 1995 in the living room of Ayers and his wife. "They were launching him," she wrote, "introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread."
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/04/18/how_obama_and_the_radical_became_news/?page=2
A popular political figure on the rise being introduced to a college professor at that professor's home. Happens all the time. Not enough.
Now if he took $$ from Ayers or condoned his current terrorist views at that meeting or any other it would be a different story. If they were close personal friends it would be a different story. If he joined or gave $$ to terrorist groups that share the views of the Weather Underground it would be a different story. I am not aware of anything like this taking place.
The relationship with Jeremiah Wright was clearly a close relationship.
For Barack Obama's campaign manager (or whoever it was) to say Obama and Ayers were "friendly" does not by itself necessarily indicate a "friendship" or a "close relationship".
Simple loose association or acquaintances alone are not enough. Otherwise what about an ex-con Obama may have worked with as a social organizer? A child molester he may have served soup to at a homeless shelter? McCain's "association" with the Việt Cộng (while he was tied up in a small box)? We all encounter bad people. The circumstances of that meeting and the closeness of the relationship matter.
They refer to him as such because he cannot employ that tactic without huge attacks on himself. He hasnt used the race card in the same way he hasnt attacked his opponent outright or even sling a bit of mud here or there in comparison to the H. Clinton or J. McCain negative campaigning tactics.
Money? America is bleeding money. Even in this depression we are still the single largest contributor of aid to foreign nations/third world countries.
If we can send aid overseas, support our own unemployed masses, welfare check citizens and find millions upon millions left over... what is so hard to understand? We cut a few programs here and there, we reassign funds from this project to the other, we pull back 100,000 troops and suddenly we have 100 million dollars free to spend on whatever the hell we want.
It's this way everywhere. Why repave this highway, why build a better
sidewalk, why do this, why do that.. but on a federal government level reassigning priorities leads to BILLIONS of dollars in the short and long term. The money is always there, look at your federal tax return and multiply that by the number of people in the country if you want a number.
::does some quick math:: I got back 966$, and there are 305,009,595 people in the U.S. lol, a lot make less, and a few make TONS more. Let's say that 1000 is the median amount.
1000 x 300,000,000 = 300,000,000,000
300 billion dollars in returned taxes.. and YOU KNOW the government doesnt always return 100% of the money it took.
So as a simple math lesson, there you go. That's the operating budget it can theoretically use in a year on a whim.
The reality is plenty complicated, but you act like this money is some limited thing. No, no.. the peons like you and me work to line everyone else's pockets above us. That much goes without saying, we're all human and need to feel independent and financially secure. The trick is realizing that, and then seeing who is the least greedy, the one who has the capability to actually do some good.
The black guy? Obama.. he has everything in the world to live up to. He has to appease the masses and actually prove himself. He's an optimistic visionary who will probably get assassinated halfway thru his 4 year stay at the oval office.
But he continues on anyway. If he believes he can do some good, by all means let him. The alternative is more-of-the-same so ... not to sound like it's truly the lesser of two evils, but.. hell, sometimes we hear so much bullshit that it all starts to blend together. There is plenty of truth out there, there are plenty of promises. Only time will tell and you cant rely on your short term survival instincts in this day and age. I know you want gas prices down, you want the recession to end.. but there arent easy answers. EVER. Obama hasnt bullshitted anyone on that issue. lol
You and I agree that there's a shitload of money in this country. But the fact is that is mostly controlled by the banks, multinational and our "lets not help our citizens first" Goverment. That's right a goverment that moves real quick to help other countries, but our own it takes a load of red tape to give out some money, ask the Katrina folks. Yes that war in Iraq is killing us financially, those troopers could be here spending money and boosting the economy but instead it's Turkey (yes there are lot of Turkish bazaar at the bases over there), Phillipines, Kuwait, Quatar, Saudi Arabia, India,Iraq, does any of those place really care about us as much as our giverment cares about them? I also heard the nasty rumor that the fuel that is used over there for our troops vehicles is shipped from the U.S. to Iraq, who covers that cost if that was to be truth? One thing I know while I was there I did not see our JP8 (diesel for the military) coming from Iraq. Going back to the subject Neither Barrack or McCain seem to not want to end this war, I wonder why? Perharps "Apollo" Obama has been persuaded by some companies that takes the jobs elsewhere that there's money to be made by everyone to include the going "green" party (Dems if you did not know that) Now the thing with experience should have never been an issue, with Palin as a VP McCrumpy er I mean McCain and his croonies from the right wing talk radio can't bash on Barrack "I only got a nice speech in 2004" Obama, they should have known that in the past 8 years experience has not help W and Dick to get anything right (now that's a lot of experience put together) I guess they wanted us to live like the "good ol days"
