Osama Bin Laden is dead

[MILF Man]

Yeah, it's your use of the word "intelligence" and the initials GWB together in one sentence there that tells me that I was right about your parents.
Read and memorise the following sentence, which is a well known fact for everybody with two brain cells to rub together:

GEORGE W BUSH IS A MORON

Or perhaps you believe him, he was right about WMD in Iraq after all...
Wait, what?

Ah well, at least he made sure the american economy stood firm, I mean, it's not like Clinton left america with the most cash of any president and Bush left america in a financial collapse, is it?
Wait a minute...

OK OK OK, Maybe Iraq was a mistake, there were no WMD there, but at least he got the job done quickly and when he flew in on an aircraft carrier to announce "mission accomplished!" that was the end of it and nobody suffered or died in the theatre after that, right?
Hold on...

Well, nevermind, all that is immaterial because whereas Clinton kind of bought Soviet Russia in from the cold as it became the Russian Federation, Bush was renowned for his diplomacy, statesmanship, skills on the international political stage and his erudite way with words, which managed to win over....
...
...Oh fuck, which countries did the Bush administration win over again? I'm drawing a blank here...

But that doesn't really matter, given that Bush at least did his basic duty of preserving america's position at the top of the world, rather than allowing, say, china(to give an example entirely at random) to come to a position where she would one day inevitably overtake america.
No?

Be all that as it may, nobody can fault Bush for his handling of the great natural disaster that was hurricane Katrina though, right?
Oh fuck it, I give up trying to defend the idiot.

I figured your parents were brother and sister cause why else would you ask? Sorry, mine parents are not brother and sister.

On how to gather intelligence with the CIA George W. Bush was finally able to get OBL. If it were not for the techniques used to get the intelligence OBL would probably still be hiding out in Pakistan. Techniques that the ignorant B.O. gang refuse to use.

 

[Evil Hobo]

I understand your thought process. But at the same time I believe a degree of justice WAS done, at the very least for the families of the 9/11 victims.
Initially the spontaneous celebrating made me a bit uneasy too - it reminded me of the celebrating some in the middle east did when the towers fell. But upon further thought, we weren't celebrating the death of innocents the way they were, we were celebrating the death of a mass murderer who intentionally targeted civilians. Therein lies a huge difference.

I guess you're right in that justice was indeed done for the families of the victims, but that is in the isolated act of finding Bin Laden and punishing/killing him.
The problem for me lies in the fact that was far from the case - tens if not hundereds of times as much innocents were killed in the ten-year process of getting to Bin Laden, how about justice for their families?

As for the celebrations across the Muslim world in the wake of 9/11, I can also see the parallel now thinking about it. But they weren't celebrating the death of innocents, it is ridiculous to think they are all one-dimensional blood-thirsty inhumane villian monsters. They were celebrating their percieved blow against US economy which they hold responsible for their suffering beforehand (thanks to old Soviet propaganda) or the US military-industrial complex.
To them 9/11 punished these (which isn't exactly accurate, but holds some remote truths), and so was a type of justice. The innocents killed were a necessary price to pay/collateral damage.

Funny how that is exactly the same thinking as those celebrating capturing Bin Laden, with the innocents being killed in the process being a necessary price worth the end result. Also, I'm not sure Bin Laden was solely responsible for 9/11, he is much more of a figurehead, just like the WTC was only a figurehead of the US military-industrial complex.

And needless to say both acts disgust me, as well as people's willingness to overlook and accept such suffering and injustice done to fellow human beings if they believe they so much as merely got something purely symbolic out of it - like a sense of revenge and justice. But I guess that is just the way humanity is...

Peace.

 

[monicasilver]

what is up with all these sarah palin groupies lately wantin to give all the credit to bush?

this imbecile had bin laden cornered 8 years ago and decided to pursue him aggressively......1000 miles in the other direction

people who think this is progress are the same people who think obama is a kenyan born muslim who stocks the white house full of grape soda fried chicken and watermellon

I'm not seeing too many people walk down the center of the road. Mostly I see people take the view that their "side" is right and everything about the other "side" is wrong.

 

[vodkazvictim]

I know...for the purposes of the discussion...I was tired of writing Pakistanis...and who's gonna know the diff except maybe you, me and 2 other people here??:tongue:

Yeah. Sorry for being a pedant, lol

Wait, he doesn't?

I do think people give him to much credit, though. Credit should go almost entirely to the people who got the job done.

:yesyes:

Both Obama AND George Bush stated repeatedly, and quite correctly, that this "war" is not a war against Islam, it's a war against TERRORISM.

Once the TERRORIST was DEAD, treating the remains in accordance with Islamic tradition/law is illustrative of and completely consistent with the position of BOTH presidents.

Here's the thing, given that the extremists are not really Islamic, but some extremist religion related to Islam, should we treat the body as Islamic?
Just some food for thought.

 

[Evil Hobo]

Yeah. Sorry for being a pedant, lol


:yesyes:

Here's the thing, given that the extremists are not really Islamic, but some extremist religion related to Islam, should we treat the body as Islamic?
Just some food for thought.

Good point mate, treating the body in an Islamic fashion reinforces the notion that Bin Laden and what he stands for is related to Islam, the thing which the Taliban/Al Qaeda use to gain sympathy and support across the Islamic world.

But then again, treating the remains according to Islam shows the West is not purposefully opposing Islamic tradition, and is willing to carry out the correct ceremonies even for their most wanted man.
Besides, what gives them or anyone the right to determine what religion Bin Laden is - even if most Muslims disagree with everything he stands for - anyone who claims to follow Islam should be treated in accordance with Islamic tradition when being buried, and that is the thing which will prevent the Islamic purests being insulted.

 

[Hot Mega]

No but are you asking because your parents are?

Without the persistence of GWB and the CIA gathering intelligence over the past decade, ti could have been a lot longer before OBL was killed.

I figured your parents were brother and sister cause why else would you ask? Sorry, mine parents are not brother and sister.

On how to gather intelligence with the CIA George W. Bush was finally able to get OBL. If it were not for the techniques used to get the intelligence OBL would probably still be hiding out in Pakistan. Techniques that the ignorant B.O. gang refuse to use.

Of all the posts in this thread, these two are the most absurdly ill-informed, patently off-base (putting it nicely) posts in the entire thread.

IMO there is only 3 way someone can intentionally create two posts stating this; sickness, gross ignorance or jokingly.

First of all, if GWB would have done in Dec '01 what Obama did on May 1, 2011, send OUR guys in to get him in Tora Bora OBL would have never made it to Pakistan to hide out for the next 10 years in the first place and he would have BEEN dead already.

1. al Libi and KSM were captured years ago. KSM in 03 and al Libi prior to that.

2. According to interrogators KSM gave up the alias for OBL's courier without under traditional interrogation.

3. al Libi did too to the FBI. The C.I.A. then took custody of al Libi and tortured him into saying Iraq was connected to 9/11 (basically made him say what Bush needed in order to invade Iraq). That claim was later debunked in the '06 Senate report on Iraq pre-war intel and recant by al Libi before his death.

4. If these methods were so effective, why then in the 5 years since the capture of KSM couldn't Bush capture or kill OBL using them??

5. Fact is Obama is about to salvage the war in Afghanistan (Americans can see success possible in Afghanistan now) by having sent 10 of thousands more troops there.

6. Obama got OBL by having the judgement and balls GWB didn't.

7. It's just a matter of time for AQ now.

8. GWB gets credit for invading Afghanistan and capturing the AQ no. 4 or 5 du jour of the day though.

 

[Ike Stain]

Right now I'm just kind of worried about some kind of "Osama-Frankenstein", cause if you really think they dumped the body, I'd say you're pretty naive.

The body "disappears" from cold storage and shows up six months later in Yemen with bolts in his neck, and now he can't be killed.

That's what keeps me awake at night.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Apparently US forces were given permission to conduct unilateral raid inside Pakistan if they knew where Bin Laden was hiding. Bush and Musharraf made a deal ten years ago that would allow the U.S to unilaterally go into Pakistan and take out Bin Laden. Afterwards, the Pakistanis would protest the excursion.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/osama-bin-laden-us-pakistan-deal

 

[vodkazvictim]

Right now I'm just kind of worried about some kind of "Osama-Frankenstein", cause if you really think they dumped the body, I'd say you're pretty naive.

The body "disappears" from cold storage and shows up six months later in Yemen with bolts in his neck, and now he can't be killed.

That's what keeps me awake at night.

You told me it was my tight little A-hole that kept you up at night... :bawling:

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

Right now I'm just kind of worried about some kind of "Osama-Frankenstein", cause if you really think they dumped the body, I'd say you're pretty naive.

The body "disappears" from cold storage and shows up six months later in Yemen with bolts in his neck, and now he can't be killed.

That's what keeps me awake at night.

Abbottabad feeling about this.

 

[Trident1]

As for the celebrations across the Muslim world in the wake of 9/11, I can also see the parallel now thinking about it. But they weren't celebrating the death of innocents, They were celebrating their percieved blow against US economy

Oh man puhlease.

 

[Red Spyder]

First of all, if GWB would have done in Dec '01 what Obama did on May 1, 2011, send OUR guys in to get him in Tora Bora OBL would have never made it to Pakistan to hide out for the next 10 years in the first place and he would have BEEN dead already.

I completely agree more with this statement. No matter how good friends other countries say they are to us we got to remember that that they got their own interests and sometimes their interests are not the same as ours. The afghans who were "helping" the U.S. in Tora Bora didn't seem as eager to go get the bastard as our own troops were, after all, it had been just a few months after 9-11 so I'm sure our troops were very motivated. So I'm glad that in OBL's case it was our troops that went in instead of giving the Pak's the information of his whereabouts and expect them to perform just to watch OBL escape again.

 

[Ulysses31]

I completely agree more with this statement. No matter how good friends other countries say they are to us we got to remember that that they got their own interests and sometimes their interests are not the same as ours. The afghans who were "helping" the U.S. in Tora Bora didn't seem as eager to go get the bastard as our own troops were, after all, it had been just a few months after 9-11 so I'm sure our troops were very motivated. So I'm glad that in OBL's case it was our troops that went in instead of giving the Pak's the information of his whereabouts and expect them to perform just to watch OBL escape again.

I suspect that neither the Afghans or the Pakistanis wanted to be the ones to take OBL out, not necessarily because they supported him (he brought them trouble no end) but because their public would turn against them if they did and there would be civil war. This is why it suits the Pakistanis to say that the US came in and took out OBL without consulting them and then appear to be outraged, it stops the Pakistani Taliban launching a full scale campaign against them for their collusion, do we really believe that Pakistan with all its military hardware didn't notice US helicopters entering its airspace? I think the Americans have agreed to take the fall for this one and the Pakistani govt had no part in it in the eyes of the huge numbers of OBL supporters in Pakistan.

 

[Hot Mega]

Apparently US forces were given permission to conduct unilateral raid inside Pakistan if they knew where Bin Laden was hiding. Bush and Musharraf made a deal ten years ago that would allow the U.S to unilaterally go into Pakistan and take out Bin Laden. Afterwards, the Pakistanis would protest the excursion.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/osama-bin-laden-us-pakistan-deal

Safe to say that was widely known. Otherwise we couldn't have conducted all of the drone strikes we've conducted up 'til now.

It's more practical for them to placate both sides...secretly allow us to take strikes but publicly protest them.

But I'm certain there was some mechanism for the Pakistanis knowing what our missions were. Hard to think we were taking these strikes at will in some sovereign nation and they have NO knowledge of them.

That said, I'm not sure the intent of the agreement was to see American forces dropping in the heart of their country and performing a snatch or kill completely unbeknown to them.

 

[Atar554]

I thought the main problem was the possible aid Pakistan could have been giving Osama for the past 6 years or so.

Or was it cleared up and shown they weren't? I honestly haven't been following the topic day to day.

 

[Ulysses31]

Pakistan struck secret deal for U.S. to kill Bin Laden TEN years ago (as long as they're allowed to complain about it)

* Deal made after Bin Laden escaped in 2001

* Pakistan's PM blames U.S. for Al-Qaeda and warns against another raid

* Pakistan 'unmasks' wrong CIA chief behind Bin Laden hit

* U.S. demands access to Osama bin Laden's three widows

* Calls for Bin Laden bounty to go to 9/11 families

* Pakistan dismisses as 'bull****' claims that Bin Laden compound was Al-Qaeda central command centre


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...CIA-chief-masterminded-hit.html#ixzz1LwP8lS3G

Strife: Activists in Pakistan burn a banner depicting Barack Obama, during a rally to condemn the killing of Osama bin Laden



Mastermind of terror... or a doddery old fool?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...d-terror--doddery-old-fool.html#ixzz1LwPL77sV

 

[Ulysses31]

Panorama - The Death of Bin Laden (may not be viewable to non UK viewers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b011djvw/

 

[Basedow]

Wack job Bin Laden fan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwtaiNFrnaU&feature=channel_video_title

 

[MILF Man]

Of all the posts in this thread, these two are the most absurdly ill-informed, patently off-base (putting it nicely) posts in the entire thread.

And this response from you doesn't surprise me at all. Your post are the best and most prime examples of gross, ill-informed, full of hatred, single minded views by anyone else in this entire forum.

And what do you mean off-base? Did you completely overlook the person who I was having the conversation with and their post? I assume not. Attacking someone by the comment they made doesn't get anymore off base. But obviously you completely overlooked their post. But again, anything you say on this board isn't surprising to me because of your single-minded way of thought.

 

[monicasilver]

And this response from you doesn't surprise me at all. Your post are the best and most prime examples of gross, ill-informed, full of hatred, single minded views by anyone else in this entire forum.

And what do you mean off-base? Did you completely overlook the person who I was having the conversation with and their post? I assume not. Attacking someone by the comment they made doesn't get anymore off base. But obviously you completely overlooked their post. But again, anything you say on this board isn't surprising to me because of your single-minded way of thought.

I enjoy your posts Milf Man and Mega's too.

I do find Mega's thinking in his posts to be single minded (not quite "fair and balanced" ), but I would say he is rather well informed and I'm guessing well read.

Just my opinion. I do tend to look for and read both of your posts.