Obama

[larss]

Then you are an idiot. He said there were no concessions, both Reagan and Nixon got concessions ABM treaty eventually, and Reagan walked from Reykjavik. That's how you negotiate, and the Soviets came back to the table.

Obama has made no human rights demands, nothing. Trump is right, worst negotiator as president we have ever had.

How could he make human rights demands? Guantanamo is on Cuba. It would be even more hypocritical of the US to demand human rights changes on an island where the US are continuing to perpetrate HR abuses themselves.

 

[Jack Davenport]

How could he make human rights demands? Guantanamo is on Cuba. It would be even more hypocritical of the US to demand human rights changes on an island where the US are continuing to perpetrate HR abuses themselves.

The majority of those detainees committed crimes that lead to the deaths of over 3000 Americans and foreign nationals on 9/11.

There are over 150 physicians and 100 nursing personnel assigned to give them medical care. The detainees receive better medical care than American military veterans through our VA. All of the accounts of abuse are coming from the terrorists themselves. There was a deterioration of conditions when the hunger strikes began and confrontations with guards. They enjoy access to Internet, which includes Skype. They have been given prayer mats and allowed to play soccer.

Human rights abuses draw scrutiny when dissidents are mistreated or citizens of a country are abused,tortured and/or killed for opposing a regime.

Enemy combatants and terrorists do not fall into that category and quite frankly are fortunate to be treated as well as they have.

Now take your commie world view somewhere else. No one is buying into your anti-American bile. Anyone that matters anyway.

 

[Johan]

The thing with Human Rights is that they apply to every human being. No one gets to deny them to any human being.

 

[BlkHawk]

The thing with Human Rights is that they apply to every human being. No one gets to deny them to any human being.

No, no no. The new definition only applies human rights to white, Christian, hetero-sexual American citizens. Haven't you been paying attention to The Donald? Yeesh Johan, stay up to date already. :cmon:

 

[larss]

The majority of those detainees committed crimes that lead to the deaths of over 3000 Americans and foreign nationals on 9/11.

There are over 150 physicians and 100 nursing personnel assigned to give them medical care. The detainees receive better medical care than American military veterans through our VA. All of the accounts of abuse are coming from the terrorists themselves. There was a deterioration of conditions when the hunger strikes began and confrontations with guards. They enjoy access to Internet, which includes Skype. They have been given prayer mats and allowed to play soccer.

Human rights abuses draw scrutiny when dissidents are mistreated or citizens of a country are abused,tortured and/or killed for opposing a regime.

Enemy combatants and terrorists do not fall into that category and quite frankly are fortunate to be treated as well as they have.

Now take your commie world view somewhere else. No one is buying into your anti-American bile. Anyone that matters anyway.

None of the detainees has been properly tried. They have been put before military commissions, so currently they are actually just accused of committing these crimes.
The military commissions at Guantanamo Bay were created by the Bush administration in 2001 to try foreign terrorism suspects in proceedings that lack the due process protections of US federal courts.
Unfortunately, being accused of this sort of crime tends to be enough for a military commission to find you guilty.

As for the medical care: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_detainees'_medical_care

A 2013 Institute on Medicine as a Profession report concluded that health professionals working with the military and intelligence services "designed and participated in cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment and torture of detainees". Medical professionals were ordered to ignore ethical standards during involvement in abusive interrogation, including monitoring of vital signs under stress-inducing procedures. They used medical information for interrogation purposes and participated in force-feeding of hunger strikers, in violation of World Medical Association and American Medical Association prohibitions.

Hooray, they have been given prayer mats to allow them to practice their religion, how generous.
How magnanimous of the USA that they are even allowed to think of playing a sport, let alone a game that is played worldwide.

It doesn't make any difference who they are, unfortunately, the world watches. They should have been taken to the US, tried and, if found guilty, punished according to the USA's own laws.

Enemy combatants, once captured, fall under the Geneva convention and cannot be legally mistreated, however much they deserve it. We (the west) must be seen to be taking the high road, otherwise we just give the terrorists even more ammunition that enables them to recruit more jihadists.
Oh, and may I just remind you, councillor, that the people in Guantanamo have never had a proper trial and should be considered as being accused and not necessarily guilty of the crimes that they are alleged to have committed. If the US was so sure of their guilt, then why not try them properly through the US courts?

As to my "commie world view", I certainly don't have one.
As far as I can tell, communists have been one of the world's worst offenders at HR abuses. Far left and far right, not a lot to choose between them.
My bile, if what I have written can be seen as bile, is directed, not at America, but at both extremes of the political spectrum, including the gun toting, string 'em up, racist, anti-abortionist, religious zealots that are the right wing of the GOP.

 

[xfire]

Yeah, because Cuba has the potential to become such a monstrous global trade partner.

Unreal.

Don't think Texas agriculture doesn't think so, to the tune of $43 Billion. There's a whole lot more benefit than is being reported in the far right media.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ees-business-potential-in-trade-with-cuba.ece

 

[Jack Davenport]

None of the detainees has been properly tried. They have been put before military commissions, so currently they are actually just accused of committing these crimes.
The military commissions at Guantanamo Bay were created by the Bush administration in 2001 to try foreign terrorism suspects in proceedings that lack the due process protections of US federal courts.
Unfortunately, being accused of this sort of crime tends to be enough for a military commission to find you guilty.

As for the medical care: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_detainees'_medical_care


Hooray, they have been given prayer mats to allow them to practice their religion, how generous.
How magnanimous of the USA that they are even allowed to think of playing a sport, let alone a game that is played worldwide.

It doesn't make any difference who they are, unfortunately, the world watches. They should have been taken to the US, tried and, if found guilty, punished according to the USA's own laws.

Enemy combatants, once captured, fall under the Geneva convention and cannot be legally mistreated, however much they deserve it. We (the west) must be seen to be taking the high road, otherwise we just give the terrorists even more ammunition that enables them to recruit more jihadists.
Oh, and may I just remind you, councillor, that the people in Guantanamo have never had a proper trial and should be considered as being accused and not necessarily guilty of the crimes that they are alleged to have committed. If the US was so sure of their guilt, then why not try them properly through the US courts?

As to my "commie world view", I certainly don't have one.
As far as I can tell, communists have been one of the world's worst offenders at HR abuses. Far left and far right, not a lot to choose between them.
My bile, if what I have written can be seen as bile, is directed, not at America, but at both extremes of the political spectrum, including the gun toting, string 'em up, racist, anti-abortionist, religious zealots that are the right wing of the GOP.

They are not entitled to due process. They are not on U.S. soil. The Geneva convention does not address the new threat of organized terrorists that do not wear the uniform of an opposing state military and where no formal declaration of war has been issued. .

They are fortunate that they aren't dead, and the only reason they are not is because of the wealth of information they have yielded that have helped us thwart other terror attacks.

Perhaps you are in favor of the type of due process that drags two soldiers out of a vehicle that inadvertantly drove into an IRA funeral procession and an angry Irish mob kills them in the street. Or the due process that sparks revenge killings.



Or maybe you are proud of the atrocities throughout Ireland's history including but not limited to the horrors of the Irish Civil war.

I don't see China, Cuba, Russia, Ireland, Germany,.. Giving the humanitarian aid that the United States offers. We give more than any country on this earth. As generous as we are, if you attack us, try to kill our people, we will hunt you down, and all bets are off. At least it used to be that way.

The moral equivocation you constantly try to paint is sad as well as weak. The brutality of the Castro regime is well documented and was used against the Cuban people to rule the people through fear, a far cry from gathering information and imprisoning those that have declared terror on the United States.

Now, you have your own dark history you need to come to terms with. I suggest that you clean the slate before you start pointing a finger at the my country, the greatest agent for Democracy and freedom this world has ever known.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Yeah, because Cuba has the potential to become such a monstrous global trade partner.

Unreal.

It's no longer 1963. You might want to go outside once in awhile.
It's been time to move forward for two decades.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Don't think Texas agriculture doesn't think so, to the tune of $43 Billion. There's a whole lot more benefit than is being reported in the far right media.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ees-business-potential-in-trade-with-cuba.ece

I am willing to wager that the Castro brothers are not willing to abide by any real trade agreement that would benefit both the Cuban people and the USA. They want money to fund their bloodthirsty regime and they need it.

The Castro regime are not business savvy and have no interest in enriching the Cuban people. Even in China millionaires and billionaires are being made.

Obama has an opportunity to make a set of guidelines for us to proceed. I am positive he doesn't have the meddle to actually form an agreement that benefits both the U.S. and the Cuban people.

 

[Jack Davenport]

It's no longer 1963. You might want to go outside once in awhile.
It's been time to move forward for two decades.

It has been damn near 6 decades dipshit. In the meantime, the world has moved on both industrially and technologically.

We have moved forward on schedule. Cuba can benefit from our help, but they need us more than we need them. They need to address us with their hat in their hand.

They do not have the natural resources or the population to compete with China nor are the potential numbers of doing business with them going to come close to the benefits of doing business with a country the size of China.

Why do you even bother to interject into these conversations? It's like trying to discuss things with a mental patient.

 

[xfire]

I am willing to wager that the Castro brothers are not willing to abide by any real trade agreement that would benefit both the Cuban people and the USA. They want money to fund their bloodthirsty regime and they need it.

The Castro regime are not business savvy and have no interest in enriching the Cuban people. Even in China millionaires and billionaires are being made.

Obama has an opportunity to make a set of guidelines for us to proceed. I am positive he doesn't have the meddle to actually form an agreement that benefits both the U.S. and the Cuban people.

While I agree that Obama would find a way to fuck it up, I do believe that he's laying the groundwork for a competent negotiator sometime in the near future. $43B to Texas agriculture is a pretty big deal to our little ol' state. Diplomacy and negotiating are processes, it would be unrealistic to think that any president could shuck and jive on down to Cuba with a list of demands and be successful.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

It has been damn near 6 decades dipshit. In the meantime, the world has moved on both industrially and technologically.

We have moved forward on schedule. Cuba can benefit from our help, but they need us more than we need them. They need to address us with their hat in their hand.

They do not have the natural resources or the population to compete with China nor are the potential numbers of doing business with them going to come close to the benefits of doing business with a country the size of China.

Why do you even bother to interject into these conversations? It's like trying to discuss things with a mental patient.

Ah the mental midget is drunk again.
For four of the six you rant about they needed to be kept at arms length. For the last 20 years a boycott had out lived it's usefulness and all that was being accomplished was the punishment of the Cuban people.
Why would they want to compete with the giant slave state known as China?? China is well on its way to poisoning it's self.
With the quickness you respond to the site if beginning to think your a shut in as well as an angry drunk.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Then you are an idiot. He said there were no concessions, both Reagan and Nixon got concessions ABM treaty eventually, and Reagan walked from Reykjavik. That's how you negotiate, and the Soviets came back to the table.

Obama has made no human rights demands, nothing. Trump is right, worst negotiator as president we have ever had.

The Wall fell because of Gorbachev old Ronnie boy had very little to do with it.

 

[Jack Davenport]

While I agree that Obama would find a way to fuck it up, I do believe that he's laying the groundwork for a competent negotiator sometime in the near future. $43B to Texas agriculture is a pretty big deal to our little ol' state. Diplomacy and negotiating are processes, it would be unrealistic to think that any president could shuck and jive on down to Cuba with a list of demands and be successful.

The only real thing that I agree with Trump on besides immigration is deal making. Raul Castro presented his list of demands and I don't have much faith that Obama wouldn't capitulate just for the sake of an agreement. I also am certain that not a dime of any trade agreement would actually benefit the Cuban people. Quite frankly, Cuba is hurting. The only reason they have lasted this long was because of the assistance of Venezuela and their oil money. I think it wouldn't take much to topple the Castro government now. I'd be proud if Obama would give them a little push

The Castros want money for no other reason but to hold onto power..

 

[Jack Davenport]

The Wall fell because of Gorbachev old Ronnie boy had very little to do with it.

Who suggested it first Ronnie or Gorbachev? You are a world class imbecile.

 

[Cachopan]

How he accepted it? Che was a murderer. If Castro wants to keep him alive Obama cant do anything, but at least dont go there. Comunism isnt better than fascism.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Ah the mental midget is drunk again.
For four of the six you rant about they needed to be kept at arms length. For the last 20 years a boycott had out lived it's usefulness and all that was being accomplished was the punishment of the Cuban people.
Why would they want to compete with the giant slave state known as China?? China is well on its way to poisoning it's self.
With the quickness you respond to the site if beginning to think your a shut in as well as an angry drunk.

"You're".

I am a shut in for close 10 hours a day.

I prefer alcohol over the lithium therapy you obviously are undergoing. It probably is helpful in keeping you from chewing on your tongue.

 

[Jagger69]

Jesus H. Christ!

Nixon only negotiated the Salt I treaty. Detente was a term heard throughout America during that era. Completely apples and oranges compared to Reagan's efforts.

There is no such efforts made by Obama. In any respect. I have a good recollection of history. You seemed to have forgotten it, or willful ignorance is in play.

My point is that all negotiations that lead to the establishment of some sort of workable relationship have to begin with people talking with each other. If they didn't, you wouldn't have a job. In Obama's speech last night, he made an appeal to brother Raul to loosen his grip on the autocratic spirit of his government by declaring he had nothing to fear from the United States. That's a great starting point in my opinion. Hopefully, the next president will take it to the next level. I wouldn't expect someone with your views to see it that way so I'm not at all surprised by your attitude but, regardless of what you might think, you aren't always right. Here's a link in case your didn't hear it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/23/world/americas/obama-cuba.html?_r=0

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Who suggested it first Ronnie or Gorbachev? You are a world class imbecile.

Ronnie was always quick to grab PR Gorbachev actually stuck his neck out and did ALL real work.

Lush.

 

[Jack Davenport]

My point is that all negotiations that lead to the establishment of some sort of workable relationship have to begin with people talking with each other. If they didn't, you wouldn't have a job. In Obama's speech last night, he made an appeal to brother Raul to loosen his grip on the autocratic spirit of his government by declaring he had nothing to fear from the United States. That's a great starting point in my opinion. Hopefully, the next president will take it to the next level. I wouldn't expect someone with your views to see it that way so I'm not at all surprised by your attitude but, regardless of what you might think, you aren't always right. Here's a link in case your didn't hear it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/23/world/americas/obama-cuba.html?_r=0

Pre-negotiations my friend. In any area of diplomacy there are ground rules. Obama blindly wanders into negotiations and diplomacy with any dictator without preconditions. There has not been any ground rules established in any discussions with Iran or Cuba. Just the patented Obama charm offensive.

Suffice it say, that world dictators and regimes bent on our demise view him as someone they can play. They seem to have him figured out. Too bad I can't say the same about Americans that bought into his BS.