Maybe all the undesirables will move out of Detroit after there is nothing left to steal. If it were repopulated with decent people it may not be such a bad place after a ton of disinfectant and reconstruction. It could be a huge lesson for the USA in how to take back ghettos, and turn them into the nice cities that they used to be before they were taken over by scum.
Obama Saved Detroit
- Thread starter Straight Shooter
- Start date
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- Tags
- obama 2012
nice add though
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
Tell me about it.
Also, tell it to Rockerx who can't confront anyone in a thread, but he can leave inflammatory remarks in rep.
Why didn't you adress D-Rock? You know I am correct. :yesyes:
They might. Then again they might move to another city to destroy that one as well.
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
By backing the debtor-in-possession financing and the pre-packaged Chapter 11, Obama did indeed save GM. Without that, GM would have gone into Chapter 7 liquidation: FACT!
And the only thing that GM needs to keep doing to solidify its comeback is make money - which it is. In fact, it is set to post the highest earnings in its history this quarter. Resurrecting dead brands means nothing. They had too many brands to begin with. And if they'd been worth something, someone else would have bought them (Roger Penske took a pass).
But here's the bottom line: Barack Obama had a helluva lot more to do with saving GM than Ronald Reagan had to do with the failure of the Soviet Union. So the tighty righties need to return to reality.
P.S. I offer my middle finger and my size 13 foot to Richard Shelby, Jeff Sessions and any other GOP'er who wanted to let the company (and the millions of people associated with suppliers) die.
And the only thing that GM needs to keep doing to solidify its comeback is make money - which it is. In fact, it is set to post the highest earnings in its history this quarter. Resurrecting dead brands means nothing. They had too many brands to begin with. And if they'd been worth something, someone else would have bought them (Roger Penske took a pass).
But here's the bottom line: Barack Obama had a helluva lot more to do with saving GM than Ronald Reagan had to do with the failure of the Soviet Union. So the tighty righties need to return to reality.
P.S. I offer my middle finger and my size 13 foot to Richard Shelby, Jeff Sessions and any other GOP'er who wanted to let the company (and the millions of people associated with suppliers) die.
As a native Detroiter!
That is not the Farmers market which is a thriving area. The video managed to pick the worst areas by far. Mind you we have along way to go, but Midtown, New Center area and downtown has come along way in the past 5 years.
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
All heil Obama - Siegheil!
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Not this guy. He still hopes the automakers default even though Chrysler has already repaid their loan and GM is right on schedule to repay theirs. Oh well, I guess he can always hope.
Elwood70
Torn & Frayed.
That's funny...I bet he wouldn't have the balls to say that to Clint....
Sam Fisher
Banned
GENERAL MOTORS AGAIN RIPPING OFF AMERICANS: WARRANTIES EDITION - BIG GOVERNMENT
Let us begin with the $50 billion ‘We the People’ were forced to “invest” in General Motors – including a $30 billion Barack Obama bump so as to give his Administration greater sway in how things would subsequently go down.
We were originally told – by Obama himself – that we would make money on the bailout. Now we’re told we’ll lose somewhere between $11 and $14 billion (and given the stock price’s long, slow slide, maybe even more).
And about which we were lied to by the Administration. Which said this titanic loss of coin is less than they were expecting – just seven months after Obama his own self said we’d turn a profit.
Then there was the 2009 GM bankruptcy filing (which we were told our $50 billion would forestall – oops).
Through which the Obama Administration’s new toy car company eviscerated existing law to benefit their union, campaign-funding cronies at the illegal expense of GM bond holders – who should have by law received preferred treatment.
The ripped off didn’t take too kindly to being the Administration’s latest dupes:
We believe the offer to be a blatant disregard of fairness for the bondholders who have funded this company and amounts to using taxpayer money to show political favoritism of one creditor over another….
No kidding.
“What they’ve offered us is ridiculous,” said Chris Crowe, 50, a Denver, Colorado-based home inspector at an event organized for small bondholders in this Detroit suburb. “I know there are only so many pieces of pie, but they’re giving us crumbs.”…
(S)aid retiree (and GM bond holder) Dennis Buchholtz,… “We have invested twice as much as the government and we’ll only get a fifth of what the government will.“
Well that seems fair.
“I’m equally as mad at GM as at the government because GM has done nothing more than give the UAW (United Auto Workers union) and the government what they want,” said retiree (and GM bond holder) John Milne….
Government Motors giving the government and their union campaign suppliers what they want, and ripping off the rest of us. Shocker.
Now we get word that Government Motors is gearing up to rip off GM warranty holders. Specifically (at least for now) those holding on the 2007 and 2008 Chevy Impala.
Let us flashback to GM Bailout Time: Obama his own self promised Americans that were GM unable to make good on their warranties, the government would.
From one of his famous problem-solving speeches:
“Let me say this as plainly as I can. If you buy a car from Chrysler or General Motors, you will be able to get your car serviced and repaired just like always.
Your warranty will be safe. In fact, it will be safer than it has ever been. Because starting today, the United States will stand behind your warranty.”
When Obama asserts plainness or clarity – prepare for the worst kind of obfuscation.
GM is now trying to claim that their bankruptcy – which they used to illegally rip of bondholders – also allows them to rip off those who are seeking to have their GM cars repaired as per their written guarantees.
(I)n a recent filing with the U.S. District Court in Detroit, GM noted that the cars were made by its predecessor General Motors Corp, now called Motors Liquidation Co or “Old GM,” before its 2009 bankruptcy and federal bailout.
The current company, called “New GM,” said it did not assume responsibility under the reorganization to fix the Impala problem, but only to make repairs “subject to conditions and limitations” in express written warranties. In essence, the automaker said, Trusky sued the wrong entity.
“New GM’s warranty obligations for vehicles sold by Old GM are limited to the express terms and conditions in the Old GM written warranties on a going-forward basis,” wrote Benjamin Jeffers, a lawyer for GM. “New GM did not assume responsibility for Old GM’s design choices, conduct, or alleged breaches of liability under the warranty.“
So all Obama has to do is change his name, and he’s not responsible for the terrible economy he’s fostered? Same guy, same failed policies, different name – so vote for him again in 2012.
Is this a set-up? Is GM looking to duck their responsibility – so as to foist the bill upon We the People, as per Obama’s “plain” promise?
Or is there something even worse occurring?
Wasn’t GM “too big to fail” – meaning (we were told) we had to bail them out to make sure they kept their promises to the American people?
Not just to their employees, but to all those parts manufacturers and car dealers – everyone who was so intertwined with the auto monolith that they too would go down were GM to do so?
And weren’t we told over and over again that we needed to bailout GM because we had to make good on their contracts with the auto unions – you know, the ones that were illegally over-rewarded in the bankruptcy?
In fact, hasn’t that been a primary defense of the back-breaking status quo in government budget fights all over the country – Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois and elsewhere?
That these governments have signed sacrosanct contracts with their public sector union cronies – and they must be maintained and adhered to, no matter how insolvent it leaves their states?
Well, these GM car owners have contracts too. But these are “plainly” deemed less sacrosanct.
Because these folks made the same fatal mistake as did GM bondholders (and select GM car dealers) – they didn’t contribute huge coin and political field work to Democrats.
Which of course the unions always do.
So on Obama’s Animal Farm, all contracts are equal, but some are more equal than others.
Thusly is the newest round of Government Motors rip offs set to commence.
http://biggovernment.com/smotley/20...ain-ripping-off-americans-warranties-edition/
Let us begin with the $50 billion ‘We the People’ were forced to “invest” in General Motors – including a $30 billion Barack Obama bump so as to give his Administration greater sway in how things would subsequently go down.
We were originally told – by Obama himself – that we would make money on the bailout. Now we’re told we’ll lose somewhere between $11 and $14 billion (and given the stock price’s long, slow slide, maybe even more).
And about which we were lied to by the Administration. Which said this titanic loss of coin is less than they were expecting – just seven months after Obama his own self said we’d turn a profit.
Then there was the 2009 GM bankruptcy filing (which we were told our $50 billion would forestall – oops).
Through which the Obama Administration’s new toy car company eviscerated existing law to benefit their union, campaign-funding cronies at the illegal expense of GM bond holders – who should have by law received preferred treatment.
The ripped off didn’t take too kindly to being the Administration’s latest dupes:
We believe the offer to be a blatant disregard of fairness for the bondholders who have funded this company and amounts to using taxpayer money to show political favoritism of one creditor over another….
No kidding.
“What they’ve offered us is ridiculous,” said Chris Crowe, 50, a Denver, Colorado-based home inspector at an event organized for small bondholders in this Detroit suburb. “I know there are only so many pieces of pie, but they’re giving us crumbs.”…
(S)aid retiree (and GM bond holder) Dennis Buchholtz,… “We have invested twice as much as the government and we’ll only get a fifth of what the government will.“
Well that seems fair.
“I’m equally as mad at GM as at the government because GM has done nothing more than give the UAW (United Auto Workers union) and the government what they want,” said retiree (and GM bond holder) John Milne….
Government Motors giving the government and their union campaign suppliers what they want, and ripping off the rest of us. Shocker.
Now we get word that Government Motors is gearing up to rip off GM warranty holders. Specifically (at least for now) those holding on the 2007 and 2008 Chevy Impala.
Let us flashback to GM Bailout Time: Obama his own self promised Americans that were GM unable to make good on their warranties, the government would.
From one of his famous problem-solving speeches:
“Let me say this as plainly as I can. If you buy a car from Chrysler or General Motors, you will be able to get your car serviced and repaired just like always.
Your warranty will be safe. In fact, it will be safer than it has ever been. Because starting today, the United States will stand behind your warranty.”
When Obama asserts plainness or clarity – prepare for the worst kind of obfuscation.
GM is now trying to claim that their bankruptcy – which they used to illegally rip of bondholders – also allows them to rip off those who are seeking to have their GM cars repaired as per their written guarantees.
(I)n a recent filing with the U.S. District Court in Detroit, GM noted that the cars were made by its predecessor General Motors Corp, now called Motors Liquidation Co or “Old GM,” before its 2009 bankruptcy and federal bailout.
The current company, called “New GM,” said it did not assume responsibility under the reorganization to fix the Impala problem, but only to make repairs “subject to conditions and limitations” in express written warranties. In essence, the automaker said, Trusky sued the wrong entity.
“New GM’s warranty obligations for vehicles sold by Old GM are limited to the express terms and conditions in the Old GM written warranties on a going-forward basis,” wrote Benjamin Jeffers, a lawyer for GM. “New GM did not assume responsibility for Old GM’s design choices, conduct, or alleged breaches of liability under the warranty.“
So all Obama has to do is change his name, and he’s not responsible for the terrible economy he’s fostered? Same guy, same failed policies, different name – so vote for him again in 2012.
Is this a set-up? Is GM looking to duck their responsibility – so as to foist the bill upon We the People, as per Obama’s “plain” promise?
Or is there something even worse occurring?
Wasn’t GM “too big to fail” – meaning (we were told) we had to bail them out to make sure they kept their promises to the American people?
Not just to their employees, but to all those parts manufacturers and car dealers – everyone who was so intertwined with the auto monolith that they too would go down were GM to do so?
And weren’t we told over and over again that we needed to bailout GM because we had to make good on their contracts with the auto unions – you know, the ones that were illegally over-rewarded in the bankruptcy?
In fact, hasn’t that been a primary defense of the back-breaking status quo in government budget fights all over the country – Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois and elsewhere?
That these governments have signed sacrosanct contracts with their public sector union cronies – and they must be maintained and adhered to, no matter how insolvent it leaves their states?
Well, these GM car owners have contracts too. But these are “plainly” deemed less sacrosanct.
Because these folks made the same fatal mistake as did GM bondholders (and select GM car dealers) – they didn’t contribute huge coin and political field work to Democrats.
Which of course the unions always do.
So on Obama’s Animal Farm, all contracts are equal, but some are more equal than others.
Thusly is the newest round of Government Motors rip offs set to commence.
http://biggovernment.com/smotley/20...ain-ripping-off-americans-warranties-edition/
Sam Fisher
Banned
The Inherently Ideological Evaluation of the GM Bailout
Megan McArdle has done consistently excellent reported pieces on the GM bailout, and her recent evaluation of its net effect on the U.S. Treasury is no exception. Her bottom line is that the deal caused U.S. taxpayers to: burn $10-20 billion in order to give the company another shot at life. To put that in perspective, GM had about 75,000 hourly workers before the bankruptcy. We could have given each of them a cool $250,000 and still come out well ahead compared to the ultimate cost of the bailout including the tax breaks
This is in line with the Obama administration’s $14 billion estimate of the net cost to the Treasury, as reported in the Wall Street Journal. If anything, I think this understates the case on the direct costs, because it does not consider other direct transfers of economic value like the government support for Delphi that inflated the value of the asset that GM sold to create a big chunk of their headline profits this past quarter, green-car development subsidies, and uncompensated interest costs on the government investment.
But no matter what realistic direct bailout costs you estimate, the objection of bailout defenders is that it is dwarfed by the other receipts or avoided expenditures created by the bailout. According to the Wall Street Journal, this is exactly the defense offered by the Obama administration:
The White House report said the money invested in GM and Chrysler ultimately saved the government tens of billions of dollars in direct and indirect costs, including the cost of unemployment insurance and lost tax receipts that the government would have incurred had the big Detroit auto makers collapsed.
There is a lot to this point, but it’s not really so simple. You can’t compare all of these net tax receipts (or more broadly, economic activity) to what would happen in “the world as it is today, minus GM.”
First, in the event of a bankruptcy, you don’t burn down the factories, erase all the source code on all the hard disks, make it illegal to use the brand name Chevrolet, and execute all of the employees. Others take ownership of the assets, and the employees go on with their lives. Some of these assets will be put to use generating revenues, profits, and taxes, and some of these former employees will get jobs or start businesses, and generate revenues, profits, and taxes. In order to measure the effect of the bailout over, say, five or ten years, you have to compare the actual taxes collected to what would happened over this same period in the counterfactual case where the bankruptcy was allowed to proceed. What owners would have bought the factories and IP assets, and what would they have done with them? What businesses would the former employees have started? Who would have moved to Arizona and retired? What new industry clusters will evolve in Arizona because of this transfer of people?
Second, some of the profit GM makes today would have been made by other companies that picked up some of the slack if the company lost market share after a bankruptcy. They would pay taxes on these profits, and as far as government receipts are concerned, money is money. How would auto industry structure evolve over time given whatever changes happened to the assets currently owned by the legal entity GM, or the employees currently paid by it?
Anybody who tells you they can answer all of these questions reliably is full of it.
And that doesn’t even start to get to the really long-run considerations of what effects this has on rule of law and moral hazard (or if you want to make the case for the bailout, social solidarity and degradation of the working class).
I hold the belief, quite strongly, that the net effect of the GM bailout will be negative. More precisely, I hold the belief that over a series of many such decisions, a mindset that would have been stringent enough not to have sanctioned the GM bailout is likely to lead to better overall economic outcomes for America. This belief is ideological — not in the sense that I just hold it for inexplicable reasons that cannot ever be changed by empirical analysis, but in the sense that I don’t believe that human beings currently have the capability to conduct the kind of analysis that should convince a rational observer to change his mind about the GM bailout in isolation from a more profound paradigm-shift-like change in his beliefs about the world.
The GM bailout is not an isolated case of this problem. And as I’ve argued many times, impressive-sounding empirical analysis is typically insufficient to measure the effect of important economic interventions like the stimulus program. If you can’t even measure what effect already-executed programs have had, how likely is it that you can predict the effects of future programs?
Acceptance of this degree of ignorance doesn’t cut equally against all ideological positions. It leads naturally to a call for decentralized decision-making, experiments, and entrepreneurial groping toward knowledge.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/268637/inherently-ideological-evaluation-gm-bailout-jim-manzi
The next time the national review is right on economic predictions will be the first.
Obama didn't saved Detroit for these reasons: Detroit has closed schools and laid off police in an effort to avoid a bankruptcy filing this year. Home prices are down 54% the past three years, worst in the U.S. The median price was $38,000 last year in the Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn metro division.
It is also mostly one the biggest hometowns of ghetto boyz, the scum, the poor and the shittiest trash gangsta people live there. If you want to live in Detroit then get a bullet proof vest, a m14 and a desert eagle and maybe you will survive. Ghetto shit holes are not the best places to live and Detroit is an example among them because of the alarming criminality rate and the poverty is mindblowing.
http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-most-miserable-cities-2012.html
It is also mostly one the biggest hometowns of ghetto boyz, the scum, the poor and the shittiest trash gangsta people live there. If you want to live in Detroit then get a bullet proof vest, a m14 and a desert eagle and maybe you will survive. Ghetto shit holes are not the best places to live and Detroit is an example among them because of the alarming criminality rate and the poverty is mindblowing.
http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-most-miserable-cities-2012.html
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
"Saving Detroit" is a euphemism for saving the domestic auto industry in the United States, not so much about saving the actual city of Detroit. The domestic auto industry stretches from most of Michigan and Ohio to Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, California and most of the continental United States. While controversial to some, the auto bailout, and associated debtor-in-possession financing, was necessary to the very economic health of this nation. And... it worked! Which is why I think some on the fringe right are having such a hard time swallowing that fact. I know I'm not the only one who has noticed how joyful the wingnuts become when something negative happens to America, and how sad and pissy they become when something good happens. The only guaranteed cure for treason, my friends, is a short rope and a tall tree. Either that... or get the fuck out and don't get in the way of people who actually care more about this great nation than some sad sack of ideological bullshit! :2 cents:
The automobile industry is leading the way when it comes to job recovery in the U.S., with total jobs at all U.S. plant and parts factories set to rise ten percent–to about 650,000 this year, according to USA Today. The newspaper reports that total auto industry jobs is expected to hit 756,800 by 2015. Ford is set to add 5,500 workers this year, and GM slated to add over 7,000. Meanwhile, Chrysler is expecting to add new shifts of 1,100 each at two plants, and Nissan will add 2,750 this year. Stronger sales and greater acceptance of American made cars and trucks are among the reasons for the job increases.
And though we parted ways shortly after I cast my vote for him in 2000, when he says things like this, I have to think that if ol' George W. had stayed away from those turn-coat, traitorous neo-cons, he might not have been such a bad Prez.
It's that trillion dollars that he and the neo-cons pissed away in Iraq (to say nothing of the lives ruined by that stupid move) that I'd like to have back! But saving Detroit was absolutely the right thing to do... by both Bush and Obama! :clap:
The automobile industry is leading the way when it comes to job recovery in the U.S., with total jobs at all U.S. plant and parts factories set to rise ten percent–to about 650,000 this year, according to USA Today. The newspaper reports that total auto industry jobs is expected to hit 756,800 by 2015. Ford is set to add 5,500 workers this year, and GM slated to add over 7,000. Meanwhile, Chrysler is expecting to add new shifts of 1,100 each at two plants, and Nissan will add 2,750 this year. Stronger sales and greater acceptance of American made cars and trucks are among the reasons for the job increases.
And though we parted ways shortly after I cast my vote for him in 2000, when he says things like this, I have to think that if ol' George W. had stayed away from those turn-coat, traitorous neo-cons, he might not have been such a bad Prez.
It's that trillion dollars that he and the neo-cons pissed away in Iraq (to say nothing of the lives ruined by that stupid move) that I'd like to have back! But saving Detroit was absolutely the right thing to do... by both Bush and Obama! :clap:
Sam Fisher
Banned
My definition of saved is far different than most in here.
Did Obama save Detroit?
No. Taxpayers lose $20 billion so unions keep benefits and lifestyle for making crappy products.
Did Obama save Detroit?
No. Taxpayers lose $20 billion so unions keep benefits and lifestyle for making crappy products.
if you wanna throw your cash at a disfunctionally run city to prove a point, well it is your right, but, even though you are so very passionate and feel strongly about the subject. Monica conyers and kwame kilpatrick and many un-named compadres of theirs along with the UAW will ensure the future of the automotive industry will take place south of the mason-dixon line and China. just going by current trends
Yeah, but the GM loan was paid off using TARP money. And the total amount of the "loan" was only $6.7 billion, the rest of the money served as a governmental purchase of stake in equity of GM, about 61% worth. Look it up. Combined, the governments of the United States and Canada own more than 72% of GM.
PlasmaTwa2
The Second-Hottest Man in my Mother's Basement
I thought saving Detroit was why they built Robocop.
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