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Lost

I'd really like to know where all the 'we love it for the character driven bits' has come from. Everyone i've ever spoken to about Lost has only ever really cared about the mysteries, how they would be resolved; who were the Dharma Initiative? The Others? Who built the Statue, the Temple? Why? etc, etc, etc...

Not one person i know ever really cared about the generic love triange between Kate, Jack and Sawyer. For most people i've spoken to that stuff got in the way of the truly interesting and puzzling aspects of the show.

So, did you tune in every week to see if Jack and Kate kissed? Or did you watch to see if anything actually ever got explained?

Season 1 and 2 were about the characters. If there is no character development than viewers don't really care about a show. If anything, Lost started to lose viewers when people realized they were introducing so much plot at the expense of character development, and it became obvious that they had no intention to really answer any of these plot devices. :dunno:

Yes, romance and sexual tension, and any kind of tension between characters is more compelling than simple plot moves in the long run.
 

roronoa3000

Banned
Does it even matter who built the statue? Alot of things were there before even Jacob was born. He doesn't even know.

Oh and yeah, I would have been upset if Kate didn't kiss Jack before he sacrificed his life.
 
I was always far more interested in the sci-fi elements of the show (secrets of the island, Dharma Initiative, Faraday's work) than the drama of the characters.

It's too bad the finale was all about character drama and not about the sci-fi elements of the show.
 
I enjoyed the ending, but I am in the same boat... I would have likes some statue answers and such!

Someone asked for more information about The Man in Black. Just read Revelations and you'll get them! The MIB in the Anti-Christ. He was a false prophet, died and came back, was shown to be a false God by bleeding, and then was thrown off a Cliff (for 1000 years).

Here's how I would have ended Lost:

Hugo is back in the psychiatric hospitol staring into a snow globe with an island in it. Nurse Libby walks by Hugo and asks him how he is doing to which he can only awkwardly smile back since he is autistic (and he has a huge crush on her). Dr. "The Man in Black" enters the scene and he makes some mean comment about how Hugo wastes his time looking into the snow globe. Dr. Man in Black is also smoking in the Hospitol which you can tell bothers Hurley. Nurse Libby asks him to put out the cigarette because she can tell it is bothering Hurley. To be even more of a Jerk Dr. Man in Black blows some of the cigarette smoke in Hurley's face. Nurse Libby defends Hugo and asks to herself "I wonder what he sees in that globe?" Camera pans out and you see every character from LOST also in the Hospital; IT WAS ALL IN HUGO'S HEAD!

How about that? Let the rep points commith!

StarMan
 
I enjoyed the ending, but I am in the same boat... I would have likes some statue answers and such!

Someone asked for more information about The Man in Black. Just read Revelations and you'll get them! The MIB in the Anti-Christ. He was a false prophet, died and came back, was shown to be a false God by bleeding, and then was thrown off a Cliff (for 1000 years).

Here's how I would have ended Lost:

Hugo is back in the psychiatric hospitol staring into a snow globe with an island in it. Nurse Libby walks by Hugo and asks him how he is doing to which he can only awkwardly smile back since he is autistic (and he has a huge crush on her). Dr. "The Man in Black" enters the scene and he makes some mean comment about how Hugo wastes his time looking into the snow globe. Dr. Man in Black is also smoking in the Hospitol which you can tell bothers Hurley. Nurse Libby asks him to put out the cigarette because she can tell it is bothering Hurley. To be even more of a Jerk Dr. Man in Black blows some of the cigarette smoke in Hurley's face. Nurse Libby defends Hugo and asks to herself "I wonder what he sees in that globe?" Camera pans out and you see every character from LOST also in the Hospital; IT WAS ALL IN HUGO'S HEAD!

How about that? Let the rep points commith!

StarMan
It all being in Hugo's head was already put forth on the Lost forum some time back. It would have been an interesting ending.
 
I enjoyed the ending, but I am in the same boat... I would have likes some statue answers and such!

Someone asked for more information about The Man in Black. Just read Revelations and you'll get them! The MIB in the Anti-Christ. He was a false prophet, died and came back, was shown to be a false God by bleeding, and then was thrown off a Cliff (for 1000 years).

Here's how I would have ended Lost:

Hugo is back in the psychiatric hospitol staring into a snow globe with an island in it. Nurse Libby walks by Hugo and asks him how he is doing to which he can only awkwardly smile back since he is autistic (and he has a huge crush on her). Dr. "The Man in Black" enters the scene and he makes some mean comment about how Hugo wastes his time looking into the snow globe. Dr. Man in Black is also smoking in the Hospitol which you can tell bothers Hurley. Nurse Libby asks him to put out the cigarette because she can tell it is bothering Hurley. To be even more of a Jerk Dr. Man in Black blows some of the cigarette smoke in Hurley's face. Nurse Libby defends Hugo and asks to herself "I wonder what he sees in that globe?" Camera pans out and you see every character from LOST also in the Hospital; IT WAS ALL IN HUGO'S HEAD!

How about that? Let the rep points commith!

StarMan

isnt that the st. elsewhere finale? a kid with a hospital in a snow globe?
 
I was always far more interested in the sci-fi elements of the show (secrets of the island, Dharma Initiative, Faraday's work) than the drama of the characters.

It's too bad the finale was all about character drama and not about the sci-fi elements of the show.

You already have a channel that's dedicated to sci fi plot over character. It's called SyFy. :dunno:
 

Big Poppa Pump

- My Name Is My Name -
Katie St. Ives reminds me of "Freckles", so I just imagine it's her.

Glock27 gets even more rep for that as soon as I can give it!

001-2027.jpg
 
Apparently this is somebody's take on the finale from the Bad Robot production company. There is no official source but even if it isn't from them, it still makes a lot of sense (Got it from lostpedia)

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
 
My guess is the person who authored this used to be a writer on the show from way back, maybe Season 1 even. I don't believe that the writers--Cuse, Lindelof, JJ Abrams [yes, him]--had the actual ending figured out right after they wrote the pilot ep. Nah. It's a very sloppy way to go about writing any large project because then all you do is write a bloated middle with lots of time wasting and little real substance. Writing then becomes a formulaic, unorganic process.

It also is hard to believe because one of those 3 publicly said it was not a Purgatory show when, whoops, it was a purgatory show. You can't lie like this to people. You simply say, "No Comment" on any theories or speculation from the getgo.

To be honest, this explanation is too complex and too "back slapping" to be taken seriously.
 
The island wasn't purgatory though, as Christian said, it was all real. When Jack died he went to the "flash-sideways" which was pretty much purgatory. They all just needed to find each other in purgatory to move on
 
i heard that the final ending scenes (the destroyed plane parts and stuff askew on the island) were added in by ABC and not approved or run by the writers of LOST.
it just goes to show ABC DIDN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE FINALE OF THIS SHOW OR THE FANS!


AND FINALLY........
i have a list of questions i want answered, everyone seems to think they know it all about this show. WELL....answer these FEW questions for me please,

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291
 
The island wasn't purgatory though, as Christian said, it was all real. When Jack died he went to the "flash-sideways" which was pretty much purgatory. They all just needed to find each other in purgatory to move on

But it's still a Purgatory show. I would also argue that by killing off all the characters, not only does it sever our relationship to them, it pretty much ends all realistic opportunity at doing a movie (a la XFiles) in, say, 3 years.

If the island turned out to be Purgatory and Sideways was reality...of if Jack sacrificed himself in order for Sideways to become "Reality"...that might be interesting. :dunno:

I liked it up until the scene with Jack and Christian. That pretty much ruined it for me. Everything else had me gripped and intrigued, fwiw.
 
i gave up on lost when the flashing lights and time traveling started then i was lost its a shame to it was my favorite show before that now metalocalypse has taken it's place
 
But it's still a Purgatory show. I would also argue that by killing off all the characters, not only does it sever our relationship to them, it pretty much ends all realistic opportunity at doing a movie (a la XFiles) in, say, 3 years.

If the island turned out to be Purgatory and Sideways was reality...of if Jack sacrificed himself in order for Sideways to become "Reality"...that might be interesting. :dunno:

I liked it up until the scene with Jack and Christian. That pretty much ruined it for me. Everything else had me gripped and intrigued, fwiw.

dude, you got it backwards. the island was reality, and the sideways timeline was purgatory.

other than that, fuck if i know
 
what annoyed me is that I dont really believe that the writers ever really had the answers.

I think this is probably right. Somebody said something about the show that I think summed it up pretty well. It was something along the times that it was a show where the writers just made a bunch of things up and created a lot of mystery, when they had no idea what was going on either and never actually planned out what happen. It was an effort to make themselves and the show artificially look smart and deep.



In my mind without actually having things and mysteries carefully planned out and smartly done it just cheapened the whole thing, and it cheats people that really try to find out what's going on. Plus, it just adds a bunch of things that get tangled in a web so bad they can never get undone because everything was written into a corner. I knew after the first year or two that this was the path the show was taking. That's why I never got that interested. I want something I can look at in the end and go, "So that's how everything fits together and I can see things perfectly fall into place plot wise now that we have all the information“. At the least I would like a show that pretended to be what Lost was to have great "fridge logic" moments after it all has ended and the way it was done deprives people of that because there probably wasn't any coherent continuity planned out.

It was a cheap show that used gimmicks and the false air of complexity and mystery that it never really did have.
 
One of the most moving things i've ever watched !!!
Matt Fox for an emmy thanks

fuck the h8torzzz :thefinger
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
I had to open this thread very carefully.

I haven't watched it yet, the finale.
I know nothing about what happened.
both parts are sitting in a folder on my comp, waiting to be watched.
but i know that once i watch it, its over.
man i never felt like this, its weird.
I can't even compare it to anything.
 
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