Japanese and American Reaction to Disaster

[girk1]

I just HAVE to point out that the OP did not raise ANY racist issues. The only people who have done, it seems, are those that are intent on denying any differences between the response of the people in Japan and the Americans in New Orleans. These differences are to do with the cultural differences in the Western and Japanese way of life. Westerners cover all racial groups INCLUDING Japanese, African, Indian, Far and Near Eastern. Some of these "minority" groups, having left their cultural homes, have embraced Western mores, others have kept their cultural identities.

The big question posed by this thread is - In times of disaster does our culture teach us to look out for ourselves and our own families to the expense of others, or do we band together to try and help all of our neighbours?

If you look back at disaster movies and books, it could be said that both are seen in our own culture. For example, look at "Day of the Triffids". There are groups of people who help all comers and those that capture and enslave others to ensure that they survive above all others.

The OP has made a thought provoking post. It is not racist, it is just posing a question and maybe getting some of us to think.

No you are intent on defending the OP based upon bald faced LIES. Accusing Katrina disaster victims of murder & other things which DID NOT HAPPEN.
It''s one thing to base an argument upon FACTS , but WHen the LOUISIANA NATIONAL GUARD & THE NEW ORLEANS POLICE deny the stuff ever happened there is nothing to differentiate.

I posted you two links from NBC & the NY Times quoting the Louisiana National Guard & New Orleans Police confirming most all of the bad stories coming out of New Orleans were FALSE. Police Chief Eddie Compass was forced to resign because he FOOLISHLY went on TV & reported this crap. Even Mayor Ray Nagin repeated the stuff based upon LIES(I guess he just wanted a quicker response & was willing to repeat these Lies without Confirmation not knowing that the most vile among us would use this crap for Bullshit agendas).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9503449/ns/us_news-katrina_katrina_the_long_road_back/



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/29/world/americas/29iht-katrina.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1



But you would rather believe the OP than the LA. NAtional Guard & the N.O. Police(Many were stuck there themselves).

Or the Florida detective(tourist) who got stuck in New Orleans & then the Super Dome during Katrina who said :

"The incidents were HIGHLY EXAGERRATED....For the amount of people ..it was a VERY STABLE ENVIRONMENT"(all he saw was 2 teenage boys have a fistfight while he was in the Dome).


There were many stories of Katrina survivors comandeering boats(people like you the OP & media would call that stealing I guess ) to save others from rooftops.

People helped one another during Katrina ,but all of that stuff gets trumped when there are CONFIRMED FALSE reports of children getting there throat slit or raped & murders. The media can't wait to hop on that type of NEGATIVE & SENSATIONAL BULLSHIT.


I am certain because it was an EVACUATION during KAtrina that a few criminals actually stayed behind for the very reason to commit property crimes ,but the overwhelming majority of the TENS of Thousands of people in New Orleans were orderly & created a
"VERY STABLE ENVIRONMENT".

 

[D-rock]

It should also be noted that most industrialized democratic free nations also take care of their people better than the U.S.A does, especially the poor. Here our entire economic and social systems have fostered a me me me, looking out for #1, I already got mine, very selfish attitudes. Once in a while we will throw money at a problem to give people a bone, but when it comes to tough true sacrifices and altering lifestyles to help other people we as a country don't usually give a damn enough to do what it takes. There is probably a large number of people here that rightfully feel more desperate from what they have had to face all their lives and wonder if anybody will take care of them or really care about them if disaster hits where in other countries people might actually care about each other and the people that might otherwise fall into desperation would see that they will get help or won't be kicked to the curb when it doesn't become convenient for people to care for public relation reasons.

 

[ragincaucasian]

There is probably a large number of people here that rightfully feel more desperate from what they have

this right here really cannot be ignored.

I just HAVE to point out that the OP did not raise ANY racist issues.

I will agree with you on your post (on what we should explore) but the intended direction of the OP wasn't to meant to be constructed with any valid argument, and because so, is geared to provoke readers to come to the focused conclusion on scapegoating "those people"


I'm not real sure how anyone was honestly expecting a real discussion based off of an OP of 3 sentences, though......

Especially when you consider the comparison is attempting to take a sample of Japan DURING the devastation (how many people were looting in NOLA when the levees broke?) against the backdrop of 4 days after an entire city was under water with no real leadership or direction being demonstrated by those in peril (lets see what Japan's citizens would look like if by Thursday no one is really attempting to help those stranded).

Maybe I'm just cynical or know what to expect from some personalities on here (and in our culture), but I don't believe that there was an honest attempt to seriously examine this issue. Why didn't we compare the MidWest floods, Southwest fires or 9/11 or any other catastrophe in recent US memory? Why not go over the great deluge of the Mississippi river flood of 1923?

This is where the rhetoric disolves.....when you realize the only reason to ask the question is because you have an assertion in mind to project to others (without substantiating or qualifying the argument).

"I wonder why all Mexicans smell bad and Canadians don't........lets discuss"

That isn't too intellectually honest to begin with....so why would you think you could start a legitimate topic with it?

 

[ragincaucasian]

If you WANT to be enlightened, and this sociological 'experiment' interests you.....I would highly suggest (not condescendingly) first getting educated on what actually took place during the Katrina hurricane. Get more information than what you caught off of the CNN / FOX / Dateline crawlers

The focus on NOLA entails a myriad of perspectives (cannot be summed up in one phenomenon); some parts are unique to the city, many parts are applicable (economically/politically) to the rest of the country, and much of the 'outrage' many still feel about the 'looters' owes a large part to what our media has become

 

[Shifty]

Lots of insight in this thread.

IMO, the bottom line is that the Japanese were more prepared for a natural disaster.

It was already stated that you cannot compare this event to Katrina for many reasons (chiefly scale), but including:

- Katrina displaced buildings and people, more people died as a consequence.
- The Japan tsunami destroyed infrastructure and killed people outright - with more dying day by day.

Re. looting - i'm not sure how this term even applies in a natural disaster situation. When distraught, and in the absence of assistance, any and all consumables should rightly be fair game.

I don't think it is fair at all to judge any race by their reaction to an epic event like a hurricane or tsunami. As stated, people do what they need to do to survive - the mindset to cause trouble/cavort simply does not exist in such a situation. There is only the need to survive and protect others.

Edit - The photo of the man being reunited with his daughter ... can you imagine that? What an absolute triumph it would be for him to be reunited with the light of his life amid such awful chaos ...

 

[CunningStunts]

If you WANT to be enlightened, and this sociological 'experiment' interests you.....I would highly suggest (not condescendingly) first getting educated on what actually took place during the Katrina hurricane. Get more information than what you caught off of the CNN / FOX / Dateline crawlers

The focus on NOLA entails a myriad of perspectives (cannot be summed up in one phenomenon); some parts are unique to the city, many parts are applicable (economically/politically) to the rest of the country, and much of the 'outrage' many still feel about the 'looters' owes a large part to what our media has become

Question: Were you there? Have you talked to people who were?

 

[girk1]

It should also be noted that most industrialized democratic free nations also take care of their people better than the U.S.A does, especially the poor. Here our entire economic and social systems have fostered a me me me, looking out for #1, I already got mine, very selfish attitudes. Once in a while we will throw money at a problem to give people a bone, but when it comes to tough true sacrifices and altering lifestyles to help other people we as a country don't usually give a damn enough to do what it takes. There is probably a large number of people here that rightfully feel more desperate from what they have had to face all their lives and wonder if anybody will take care of them or really care about them if disaster hits where in other countries people might actually care about each other and the people that might otherwise fall into desperation would see that they will get help or won't be kicked to the curb when it doesn't become convenient for people to care for public relation reasons.

I guess you are referinng to the looting & not the OP's Lies about murder & other unfounded atrocities in New Orleans.

There was some 'looting' & even the police were 'given permission' they claim to go into the stores because they had no food/supplies. There were some people that were going in WITH the police & the police could care less(since they understood that they were ababdoned I assume).

If people like the OP are so concerned about the human condition/bahavior & wanted to understand it that's one thing ,but to keep profferring OUTRIGHT LIES about New Orleanians is appaling & caters to a racist element in this country.

If we are so concerned about human behavior in times of disaster why not also talk about the looting in China during the May 12 Earthquake were dozens of looters were arrested (many not caught)took..."computers,electronic applainces, tv sets, refrigerators",etc......

Or Chile during the earthquake of 2010 when a curfew was enforced after 'looting'.

That's admirable that the Japanese haven't looted yet,but no need to single out New Orleans with LIES.

And in the big picture I can honestly say I am not as worried by these people taking supplies from Walmart, Supermarkets,etc.... I doubt if Wal MArt/Supermarkets are as worried about it either....:dunno:

What would have disturbed /appalled me if people had stolen from other victims & individuals & not Wal Marts & Supermarkets.

 

[Trident1]

Interesting how those who desperately do not want to talk about this issue knee jerk reactions, whereas those who are intelligent and rational have contributed to the discussion.




http://www.boingboing.net/2005/09/13/katrina_a_cameramans.html

Interesting account.

 

[ragincaucasian]

Question: Were you there? Have you talked to people who were?

uh....WHERE is the Atchafalaya Basin?:surprise:

 

[ragincaucasian]

Interesting how those who desperately do not want to talk about this issue knee jerk reactions, whereas those who are intelligent and rational have contributed to the discussion.

I'd say you have it backwards because you have offered, like, 7 sentences total with no subtance in this entire thread:1orglaugh

 

[ragincaucasian]

I'm not arguing and I'm more than willing to listen to anyone that provides more support to advancing the OP's assertion (there isn't much in the world that is 'right' or 'wrong' - just a matter of getting complete information), but what about the earthquakes in India a few years ago (not the latest one)? Where, when disaster struck, mobs of people were trampled

Is it an attempt to explore the mass psyche of humankind when confronted with mortal stressors? Or are we simply looking to fixate on Katrina (and what that really implies)

You see, when you purposely EXCLUDE data, it really comes off like you're constructing propaganda.

 

[ragincaucasian]

here is what looks to be a white-paper of the comparison (done awhile ago) [while looking for more views contrary to what I've presented]
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/takemi/files/RP239.pdf

 

[Zolf J. Kimbly]

I'm not arguing and I'm more than willing to listen to anyone that provides more support to advancing the OP's assertion (there isn't much in the world that is 'right' or 'wrong' - just a matter of getting complete information), but what about the earthquakes in India a few years ago (not the latest one)? Where, when disaster struck, mobs of people were trampled

Is it an attempt to explore the mass psyche of humankind when confronted with mortal stressors? Or are we simply looking to fixate on Katrina (and what that really implies)

You see, when you purposely EXCLUDE data, it really comes off like you're constructing propaganda.

:thumbsup:

good work!

was lookin for this.

hats off to you sir

 

[Ulysses31]

Actually I very much doubt Japanese cops would respond like this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ctim-missing-policeman-convicted-killing.html


or some of the residents like this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ged-Hurricane-Katrina-race-hate-shooting.html


they haven't even asked for help like this yet

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-361335/British-flight-takes-ration-packs-storm-victims.html


Even the fairly right wing Daily Mail that I often reference has no stories about people looting, rioting and firing at cops. Guess this was something dreamed up by the US media

 

[Trident1]

The reason I didn't include India or other countries was simply as an American and Katrina occurring in the U.S., I'm curious to the cultural differences between the aftermath to the hurricane disaster with what we see in Japan.

 

[larss]

No you are intent on defending the OP based upon bald faced LIES.
....

But you would rather believe the OP than the LA. NAtional Guard & the N.O. Police(Many were stuck there themselves).

There were many stories of Katrina survivors comandeering boats(people like you the OP & media would call that stealing I guess ) to save others from rooftops.

I wish that you would not put words in my mouth.
Please re-read my post. I have not mentioned either disaster in it, nor have I explicitly defended the OP. I have said that his post was thought provoking, which it has been - there has been a lot of discussion provoked by it to prove my point there.

I will also repeat the main tenet of my post "In times of disaster does our culture teach us to look out for ourselves and our own families to the expense of others, or do we band together to try and help all of our neighbours?"

You accuse me of being so crass as to say that people commandeering boats to help others are stealing, this is blatantly not the case. I have only posed a question, I have not actually given a solid opinion, however in this particular case, I will say that using available equipment for relief and help of victims during a disaster is not looting. Taking food from flooded/abandoned shops to feed people is not looting. Taking clothing to ensure that people are kept warm is not looting. Taking a TV set, an MP3 player, a cell phone - that is looting. Taking goods that are of no immediate use to the abatement of the suffering of disaster victims is looting.

 

[larss]

You see, when you purposely EXCLUDE data, it really comes off like you're constructing propaganda.

This sort of reporting is reprehensible as it appears racist, what we cannot know, of course, is what was carried away by either the couple or the single man. There is no way of knowing from these photographs whether what is being carried is in fact personal belongings or items from a grocery store, the only thing giving any context is the text beside the picture. I make no conclusions except that the combining of the 2 pictures together make the first one LOOK racist. These are 2 different press agencies, and we only see one picture for each report.

At the end of the day these pictures end up leaving a lot more questions, possibly more about the agenda of the Huffington Post than the agencies that reported the original pictures.

 

[Facetious]

more racist bullshit - hooray!

The difference between racial and racist.

 

[Ulysses31]

I'll carry on using this thread to show pictures of the admirable way the Japanese are coping with this disaster, whether or not Americans would do the same is not important at this time. ps The only natural disaster I can recall where there is still no televised aid appeal, still the Japanese do the best to help themselves first (in terms of money and goods like tents not rescue teams etc).

Bleak: Survivors read newspapers around a camp fire at a makeshift camp in Otsuchi, northern Japan after Friday's massive earthquake and tsunami.

All that can be found: A boy helps his older brother carry family clothes from their apartment (background) in the tsunami devastated town of Otsuchi

Sadness and joy: A fireman goes through a photo album found in the ruins of Otsuchi while soldiers rescue Fujiko Chiba, who was stranded in an isolated evacuation center for five days in Ishinomaki, Miyagi

Things get worse: Rescue workers walk in heavy snowfall at a factory area that was devastated after being hit by an earthquake and tsunami in Sendai

 

[Ulysses31]

Joy: Two young schoolboys prepare to hug each other after they realise each other is safe at a school in the north east of Japan

Doing what she can: Five-year-old Neena Sasaki carries some of the family belongings from her home that was destroyed

Evacuation: A clearly distressed elderly resident from the city of Hachinohe is helped from his home by soldiers

Heroes: British teachers Robert Bailey, 27, (left) and Simon Green from Reading, both of who survived Japan's biggest earthquake in the Northern town of Ofunato

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Robert-Bailey-saved-class.html#ixzz1Gl9LAeUn