Israel: Neo-Nazi in the making?

[KittyKat]

Calm, I completely agree with everything you have said so far, and I usually keep out of debates like this for one reason: I am pro-Israel, always have been, always will be. On some boards that has caused a lot of problems in the past.

That's true but the Philistines lived in Gaza and Israel were in what we call Israel now, so if we were to give away land based on that everything would remain the same except Israel would rule the western part of Jordan.

I'm not saying they should give land based on ancient, and I do mean ancient, land patterns, I just like remind people that, that region does not 'belong' to Palestinians exclusively merely because Jews did not live there for so long.

And I don't believe I answered the original question of israel- neo-nazi in the making.

DD & PD, I respect the hell out of your guys, but I think to call Israel 'Nazi's in my making' is an insult.

*bow out of thread respectfully*

 

[Dro50]

Can't we all just get along!!!!

 

[georges]

1) Calm, I completely agree with everything you have said so far, and I usually keep out of debates like this for one reason: I am pro-Israel, always have been, always will be. On some boards that has caused a lot of problems in the past.

2) I'm not saying they should give land based on ancient, and I do mean ancient, land patterns, I just like remind people that, that region does not 'belong' to Palestinians exclusively merely because Jews did not live there for so long.

3) And I don't believe I answered the original question of israel- neo-nazi in the making.

4) DD & PD, I respect the hell out of your guys, but I think to call Israel 'Nazi's in my making' is an insult.
*bow out of thread respectfully*

1) me too

2) yes

3) me too

4) it is aggriviating. I agree

 

[LordVader66]

I was not even going to comment on this situation, however i feel that I must add my opinion. This crisis is a double edged sword in my mind. Israel has the right to defend themselves and prove to the Muslim extremists that they will not give into terrorism. However my heart goes out to Lebannon and it's people. They just got Syria out of their country and they say they are not strong enough to deal with Hezbolah. The Lebanese were just starting to reclaim their country and now they are getting bombed. The whole Palestinian situation is just an excuse for Arabs to attack or condemn Israel. There has not been a Palestenian state for 1000 years or more. Then suddenly Arrafat claims they have a right to this ancient country. That is like Iran wanting to reclaim all the territory of the Persian Empire. A great deal of Lebanese civilians are going to die in this conflict and my heart breaks for them and their families. The people of Lebannon need to understand that Hezbolah and other organizations will use people for shields and hide munitions in houses and residential areas. If they cared anything for the people whos country they lived in they would show themsleves and fight like men in a regular army and not cowards. They know this way casulties will increase and support for thier cause will as well when people's friends and families have been killed by Israel. Israel being compared to the Nazis is just absurd, the Israelies have a right to defend themselves and their homeland. They have always responded to an attack and never invaded another country without provocation if I am not mistaken. Hell they even gave land back to Egypt and Syria after the conflict in the 1960's. I could continue but I have stated my opinion and will exit NOW!

 

[georges]

great analysis nightcrawler :thumbsup:

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

Yes, the Jews were driven out, but they have as much right to that land as the Palestinians.

Before bowing out of the thread, Kitty, I want to stress one particular point raised by you. Its highlighted & underlined. Doesn't it mean that Jews have the same right as the palestinians?

Its true as much as the sun rises in the east.

If that is true then where do the present bombing stand?

Arguably, no-where rational, IMO.

I respect you too, but friends do differ. Its your greatness that we could agree to disagree. Thanks for that.

By the way, pd is not involved in it. She only got fired up because she thought I was insulted. That particular post was nothing to me.

But you should agree it is a nice debate.
dd

 

[KittyKat]

Its true as much as the sun rises in the east.

If that is true then where do the present bombing stand?

Arguably, no-where rational, IMO.

In a perfect world, there would be no bombing, everyone would live in peace and share the territory. But this is far from a perfect world, as we all know. And just because I am pro-Israel, does not mean I condone everything has done, and will do in the future.

So where do the present bombings come in? Israel are pursuing a strategy that has mostly worked for them in past.

If you were surrounded by belligerent states, wouldn't you want to secure your borders? If you had an opportunity to secure a NON-belligerent state north of your border, wouldn't you do it?

Most people are going to say no on here, but thank god the major of us are not going to have make that choice.

I respect you too, but friends do differ. It’s your greatness that we could agree to disagree. Thanks for that.

By the way, pd is not involved in it. She only got fired up because she thought I was insulted. That particular post was nothing to me.

:thumbsup: It's certainly true that friends do differ. If not it would make for a pretty one sided debate, my friend:thumbsup: And I salute pd for defending her man

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

:thumbsup: It's certainly true that friends do differ. If not it would make for a pretty one sided debate, my friend:thumbsup: And I salute pd for defending her man

Thank you kitty. We two, dd & I, both think this is the best forum in the world because of that.

dd has :bowdown: out of this thread.
pd

 

[Calm]

But you should agree it is a nice debate.
dd

I agree, this is the best thread we've had in months.




I want to say something that is a little controversial.
Maybe an all-out war in the middle east is a good thing?

Now before you go "No! wars are always bad and people die!" on me, hear me out.

Things have been tense for years, suicide bomb here, shoot a village there; maybe this pressure cooker need a big war to blow up all the tension and then have peace for the next 10 or so years?

People will die, and that's terrible, I know, but isn't peace the ultimate goal? and what if war could actually get us peace? wouldn't it be worth sacrificing all those lives for future lives?

I know I'm gonna get alot of "war never solves anything" and "war only drags more wars" and I'll probably get flamed or whatever but I don't care, I just needed to put this out there.

 

[chronotrigger]

Oh Calm, I am awaitng for the coming of the storm.

 

[voufi]

You are thinking about Jews, whereas I'm thinking about Israelis.

I have to agree you are right on that one. There is a difference between a Jew and an Israeli.But i think you know what i mean.I mean the people who claim thjat land as their own, name them as you like.

If I were the Lebanese government I'd do something to drive Hizbollah outside of my damn country. Why should I be dragged into war because of a group of terrorists who hide in my territory?
Lebanon got caught in the middle of this. With proper managemnt they could team up with Israel and drive the terrorists away, rather than fight Israel and go to war because of something they had absolutely nothing to do with.

And the fact that a terrorist organisation is located in one country gives another country the right to attack the first country? Just imagine that in your house is hiding a murderer. Does that give me the right to bust in and kill anyone that i see infront of me regardless if he is the murderer or not?
That doesn't make any sense.
And why isn't the global policeman trying to stop this bloodshed like all the other times he has? Oh i forget. This time it is our friends that are attacking, so it's ok.

 

[Calm]

And the fact that a terrorist organisation is located in one country gives another country the right to attack the first country? Just imagine that in your house is hiding a murderer. Does that give me the right to bust in and kill anyone that i see infront of me regardless if he is the murderer or not?
That doesn't make any sense.
And why isn't the global policeman trying to stop this bloodshed like all the other times he has? Oh i forget. This time it is our friends that are attacking, so it's ok.

if a murderer broke into your house and started shooting at my house from your house and hurting my family then yeah, i'd fire back at your house.

what? you seemed to have forgot that small part of them shooting israel in your analogy?

 

[voufi]

And to answer to calm about the proposition of a war bringing peace in the end. Peace is not always the best think if it is not sealed fairly. Look what happened after WW1. The peace that the allies offered was so unfair to Germany and that eventually led to Nazism and WW2. I mean you have to treat other nations with respect even if they are the loosers if you really want peace to last. And from what i can tell in Middle East noone is respecting each other so war will keep going.

 

[voufi]

if a murderer broke into your house and started shooting at my house from your house and hurting my family then yeah, i'd fire back at your house.

what? you seemed to have forgot that small part of them shooting israel in your analogy?

I don't think Lebanon ever attacking Israel, yet there are Lebanese dying and properties of Lebanon that is destroyed.

 

[pussypoppa]

this whole war is over some captured soldiers, Israel was told to release prisoners (women and kids) in exchange for these soldiers, but the Israeli's did not want to negotiate. so they thought they'd attack Lebanon to get these soldiers back

 

[voufi]

Well poppa, that is right but Hesbollah captured the soldiers not Lebanon. Doesn't that count for something?
And for setting things straight before getting misunderstood, i don't think that Israelies are the bad guys here, but they should have acted differently.
Maybe by sending their ambassador to Lebanon and asking for their aid instead of attacking?

 

[Calm]

I don't think Lebanon ever attacking Israel, yet there are Lebanese dying and properties of Lebanon that is destroyed.

the murderer is hozballa, your house is lebanon and my house is israel, so hozballa is attacking israel from lebanon, thats what i meant.

Well poppa, that is right but Hesbollah captured the soldiers not Lebanon. Doesn't that count for something?
And for setting things straight before getting misunderstood, i don't think that Israelies are the bad guys here, but they should have acted differently.
Maybe by sending their ambassador to Lebanon and asking for their aid instead of attacking?

Lebanon is weak, their army isnt strong enough to aid Israel, if they could fight Hozaballah they'd do it themselves and drive them out of their country.

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

I agree, this is the best thread we've had in months.

Thank you Calm. But You got me in again.

I want to say something that is a little controversial.
Maybe an all-out war in the middle east is a good thing?

Now before you go "No! wars are always bad and people die!" on me, hear me out.

Things have been tense for years, suicide bomb here, shoot a village there; maybe this pressure cooker need a big war to blow up all the tension and then have peace for the next 10 or so years?

People will die, and that's terrible, I know, but isn't peace the ultimate goal? and what if war could actually get us peace? wouldn't it be worth sacrificing all those lives for future lives?

I know I'm gonna get alot of "war never solves anything" and "war only drags more wars" and I'll probably get flamed or whatever but I don't care, I just needed to put this out there.

Controversial? Talk aout opening up a hornet's nest.

But unfortunately or may be fortunately I agree with you. Some where before I talked about Chaos.

If you look at the part Mythology you will find:
In Greek mythology, Chaos or Khaos is the primeval state of existence from which the first gods appeared. In Greek it is Χάος, which is usually pronounced similarly to "house" (Koiné) or "cows" (Attic), but correctly in ancient Greek as /'kha.ɔs/; it means "gaping void", from the verb χαίνω "gape, be wide open", Proto-Indo-European *"ghen-", *"ghn-"; compare English "chasm" and "yawn", Old English geanian = "to gape".

In Egyptian mythology the world also begins with chaos. In this chaos lived 4 frog Gods and 4 snake Goddesses: Nu and Naunet (water), Amun and Amaunet (invisibility), Heh and Hauhet (infinity) and Kek and Kauket (darkness). These gave birth to all other Gods and Goddesses in the Egyptian pantheon.

There are also many cultures that have a certain deity or figure representing chaos. Some examples are Set (or Sutekh), the Egyptian God of chaos (as well as storms and thunder) who has been called "Set the Destroyer," and Eris, a Greek Goddess of "chaos, confusion, laughter, and discord." Eris is hailed to in the Discordian religion as well.


But that is Good, don't you think? A new begining from the ashes of the ruins.

dd

Huh. you're bombblustering idiot, dd
pd

 

[lordvader1]

Well I guess I'm the dark and dreary one here but this whole thing IMO is just the beginning stages of WWIII. It's been proven in Iraq that you can't fight these people in a conventional war. That just leaves nukes and that means we're all fucked. Bash me if you want to I really don't care but I strongly feel that these are the end of days.

 

[voufi]

Lordvader that's quite pessimistic isn't it? I hope you'll be proven wrong. But i think if there is ever going to be a WWIII it will be for oil, not for terrorism.