• Hey, guys! FreeOnes Tube is up and running - see for yourself!
  • FreeOnes Now Listing Male and Trans Performers! More info here!

Is the U.S. all that bad?

Sarah P@lin knows where it is. When she gets done dealing with our allies in North Korea, she'll point out the country of Africa... again.

Which kind of leads to a legitimate criticism of the U.S.: people/kids in the U.S. seem to be getting progressively dumber. I think our little goofballs now rank somewhere around 25th or 27th in global rankings of math & science. As a country, we're approaching a state of not being able to add or subtract, our elected officials don't know a country from continent... but that's OK because most of us don't know who our elected officials are anyway. Ignorance really is bliss.

I wonder if that has something to do with the massive immigration we've gotten year in year out. All those kids who've just come here and who don't even speak English get tested too. On top of that you have teachers unions standing in the way of reform.


Now the other thing I wonder is if the U.S. egalitarian education structure has any effect on our ranking. When they rank these high school age kids, are they testing ALL students in these other countries or just the kids who are going to college prep high schools.

For example, Germany doesn't send all it's children to college prep high schools, many go to trade schools instead. They are separated out while being tested early on in their education.
 

emceeemcee

Banned
Or it could be that they don't agree with YOUR opinion of America's F.P. and what it should be in your opinion.

I don't believe for a second that most Americans would approve of their government funding people who deliberately kill civilians or crack down on their political opponents, but they do support it because the US portraits it as fighting for just causes and withholds truth as evidenced by wikileaks.


Your average Americans doesn't have a clue about the middle east or what America has done in Latin America for example. Maybe if Chomsky's books sold more I be inclined to agree with your sentiment but for now it seems more apparent to me that it's more about a lack of knowledge.


The most infuriating part about some of these discussions is that folks who are bleating the loudest about "american empire" and our FP often have a much more malicious and self-serving view of how the world should work.


Care to give some examples of this self serving view the critics espouse?
 
I don't believe for a second that most Americans would approve of their government funding people who deliberately kill civilians or crack down on their political opponents, but they do support it because the US portraits it as fighting for just causes and withholds truth as evidenced by wikileaks.


Your average Americans doesn't have a clue about the middle east or what America has done in Latin America for example. Maybe if Chomsky's books sold more I be inclined to agree with your sentiment but for now it seems more apparent to me that it's more about a lack of knowledge.





Care to give some examples of this self serving view the critics espouse?


You shouldn't pay too much attention to Chomsky beyond his strength in linguistics and programing. I've sat through many an undergrad and graduate school lecture on international security and geopolitics. The man is almost universally derided and this is by many a leftwing Professor. We've never been asked to study his work either except in passing. People who bring up Noam Chomsky get the eye roll not only by their fellow students but by lecturers too. I don't know about your country, but he isn't taken as seriously anywhere I've studied.

Does America support some nasty people? Yeah but that is normally with some overarching security concern in mind, and that's been the case since just after WWII.

Not wanting to be surrounded and destroyed by the Soviets and soviet aligned countries would be cause number 1.


Another example of this would be support for the dictator Mubarak in Egypt. Why have we supported him for so long? Because he's someone we can work with. We've been hurt before in the middle east and we'd LIKE to avoid war when we can. You say we're enabling a brutal dictator--WELL--look who is the opposition--people like the Muslim Brotherhood who are the spiritual successors of Qutb among others and an enemy of all non-Muslims.
Al Qaeda's leadership is filled with Egyptians who thought that the Muslim Brotherhood didn't move fast enough for them. But in the end, who is the danger to non-Muslims? They both are.


If we really DO NOT care about working with Mubarak, and it's all on us, why don't we have better relations with Syria and Libya or pre-Invasion Iraq? We work with people willing to work with us. We're mortal beings and we need to survive, that's the reason why ALL countries have international relations.


A lot of what America has "done" in Latin America is reported through the bias viewpoints of Latin American leftists, some of the biggest mythmakers to ever crawl the earth. They'll bring up things like the School of the Americas and one just has to stop and start looking for citations so you can check and triple check all their lies. WHY Latin Americans believe so much of their own lies is a subject for another thread.
 
Point is Africa isnt a country.

There's NO reason in pointing it out when the man's POINT was perfectly clear. Why do we even label continents exactly? For general ease in identifying an area. If he said except Africa I understand he meant those countries.


Don't reply to my posts anymore if you're going to waste my time with asinine responses.
 
The United States is the greatest country in the world! To all you Europeans, both of my grandfathers took bullets on your behalf. I'm sure most people in the world think that their home country is the greatest and from certian stand points they are probably right. No nation has offered more opportunity, more hope, more peace than the USA. I'm very proud to be American.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I wonder if that has something to do with the massive immigration we've gotten year in year out. All those kids who've just come here and who don't even speak English get tested too. On top of that you have teachers unions standing in the way of reform.

According to one report I read some time ago, it's quite the opposite in some cases. If not for immigrants, the scores and graduation rates (at least in inner city areas) would be even worse. I mean, language barriers aside, math is sort of a universal language. We have to be careful about thinking that every immigrant who is in this country is here to pick fruit, clean hotel rooms or mow grass. Quite often we are getting the best of the best (intellectually) from other countries. I've been out of school for quite awhile. But even in the 80's, engineering, math, physics and computer science classes were beginning to fill up more & more with Asians (mainly) and others from foreign countries. But you may be right that immigrants from less educated backgrounds, who possess little drive to become better educated, could be contributing to the overall lower rankings.


Now the other thing I wonder is if the U.S. egalitarian education structure has any effect on our ranking. When they rank these high school age kids, are they testing ALL students in these other countries or just the kids who are going to college prep high schools.

For example, Germany doesn't send all it's children to college prep high schools, many go to trade schools instead. They are separated out while being tested early on in their education.

It's most likely that there are a variety of factors contributing to the U.S.'s relatively low global ranking in math and science. I guess it could have something to do with the measurement system itself. But unless there is proof of that, that's usually just an easy way out when results are unexpectedly bad. And unless some of these other countries started changing their educational or testing methods in the past 10-15 years, the relative positions in the rankings just mean that they're getting better, we're getting worse or some combination of the two.

What I am sure of is that without the H1B visa program, the company I was with about 5 years ago could not have functioned. We just could not find enough degreed mechanical, aerospace and electrical engineers born in the U.S. to do what we needed to be done. I've done my best to get my young cousin interested in engineering. But he says he's just going to do what I do. But the little dumbass couldn't tell you what I (really) do if you held a gun to his head. I'm not an engineer at all. I've worked with them, around them and had some work for me. But I'm not an engineer! Like most kids in the 14-22 group, I think he just sees a certain type of car, clothes or whatever, and then decides that whatever it takes to get that, that's what he's going to do. I'd say the average 12 year old from Pakistan could beat his ass in math and science... and that kid is who I would hire instead of cousin dopey.

We do need to reform the school system here. But I'm under no illusion that either major party has a practical, workable plan to do that.
 

emceeemcee

Banned
You shouldn't pay too much attention to Chomsky beyond his strength in linguistics and programing. I've sat through many an undergrad and graduate school lecture on international security and geopolitics. The man is almost universally derided and this is by many a leftwing Professor. We've never been asked to study his work either except in passing. People who bring up Noam Chomsky get the eye roll not only by their fellow students but by lecturers too. I don't know about your country, but he isn't taken as seriously anywhere I've studied.

I'll pay attention to whoever and whatever I feel like. I'm quite capable of sorting fact from fiction using my own brain rather than being told what to believe.

The man is derided because he writes about inconvenient facts that the elite don't want people to know, and nationalistic halfwits are threatened to hear.


Does America support some nasty people? Yeah but that is normally with some overarching security concern in mind, and that's been the case since just after WWII.


Another example of this would be support for the dictator Mubarak in Egypt. Why have we supported him for so long? Because he's someone we can work with. We've been hurt before in the middle east and we'd LIKE to avoid war when we can. You say we're enabling a brutal dictator--WELL--look who is the opposition--people like the Muslim Brotherhood who are the spiritual successors of Qutb among others and an enemy of all non-Muslims.
Al Qaeda's leadership is filled with Egyptians who thought that the Muslim Brotherhood didn't move fast enough for them. But in the end, who is the danger to non-Muslims? They both are.


If we really DO NOT care about working with Mubarak, and it's all on us, why don't we have better relations with Syria and Libya or pre-Invasion Iraq? We work with people willing to work with us. We're mortal beings and we need to survive, that's the reason why ALL countries have international relations.

So as long as the US feels it was in some greater security interest (which no serious argument can be constructed in favor of) then any amount of ethnic cleaning, state terrorism, war, theft, destruction and murder can be rationalized and justified.

Your country, just like every other empire before it, does not 'work' with other countries, it is only interested in dealing with other nations to further it's own power. That's how empires work.

A lot of what America has "done" in Latin America is reported through the bias viewpoints of Latin American leftists, some of the biggest mythmakers to ever crawl the earth. They'll bring up things like the School of the Americas and one just has to stop and start looking for citations so you can check and triple check all their lies. WHY Latin Americans believe so much of their own lies is a subject for another thread.

Really? So why is it the Latin Americans have such a gripe with Americans? What is the reason? I just can't wait for your answer!

This is why it's absolutely pointless trying to get into conversation with the average American about why it is the rest of the world hates them. Not only are you woefully ignorant of what your government has done but you have the gall to argue everything down to a matter of opposing ideologies or discount the historical record entirely on the basis of an illogical gripe from a bunch of people with too much time on their hands. Any accusation of wrong doing by the United States is just impossible for you to accept so you confect some bullshit explanation as to what motivates your critics.

Most of you so utterly blinded by the most tacky form of patriotism and retarded nationalism that it makes any kind of conversations about FP impossible because you are just not willing to read things which contradict your beliefs. Exactly how many books have you read which are critical of America's FP? Have you actually read any of Chomsky's work and gone through the footnotes, double checking his sources to make a scholarly assessment of how well his work checks out? LOL

I went to school with refugees from El Salvador and Chile who grew up seeing decapitated heads being delivered to their villages as a warning and truckloads of corpses from political opponents being tossed off cliffs into the ocean. If only I knew they were just leftist liars I would never have listened to them!
 

georges

Moderator
Staff member
I'll pay attention to whoever and whatever I feel like. I'm quite capable of sorting fact from fiction using my own brain rather than being told what to believe.
The man is derided because he writes about inconvenient facts that the elite don't want people to know, and nationalistic halfwits are threatened to hear.

So as long as the US feels it was in some greater security interest (which no serious argument can be constructed in favor of) then any amount of ethnic cleaning, state terrorism, war, theft, destruction and murder can be rationalized and justified.

Your country, just like every other empire before it, does not 'work' with other countries, it is only interested in dealing with other nations to further it's own power. That's how empires work.

Really? So why is it the Latin Americans have such a gripe with Americans? What is the reason? I just can't wait for your answer!

This is why it's absolutely pointless trying to get into conversation with the average American about why it is the rest of the world hates them. Not only are you woefully ignorant of what your government has done but you have the gall to argue everything down to a matter of opposing ideologies or discount the historical record entirely on the basis of an illogical gripe from a bunch of people with too much time on their hands. Any accusation of wrong doing by the United States is just impossible for you to accept so you confect some bullshit explanation as to what motivates your critics.

Most of you so utterly blinded by the most tacky form of patriotism and retarded nationalism that it makes any kind of conversations about FP impossible because you are just not willing to read things which contradict your beliefs. Exactly how many books have you read which are critical of America's FP? Have you actually read any of Chomsky's work and gone through the footnotes, double checking his sources to make a scholarly assessment of how well his work checks out? LOL

I went to school with refugees from El Salvador and Chile who grew up seeing decapitated heads being delivered to their villages as a warning and truckloads of corpses from political opponents being tossed off cliffs into the ocean. If only I knew they were just leftist liars I would never have listened to them!

Oh really:facepalm::rolleyes:Most of the political articles you have posted on the board were biased and not really saying the truth. I am really wondering of how you can think that the leftist-socialist-liberal media is telling you teh truth. Nationalistic halfwits???? Strange. Perhaps you should ask yourself why people are bored with consistent and recurring problems due to illegal and massive immigration. It will enlighten you on a lot of questions.
In every country whether it is a capitalist, a maoist or a socialist country, you have an elite and stop making it or passing it exclusively for the capitalist countries.
You have never been to the USA, haven't you? Ethnic clansing???:wtf::bs: Do you really think that America is South Africa???? State terrorism??? War? Yes but it is better to protect your assets, interests and your allies than cease and concede to terrorists. What kind of theft do you accuse the USA to be responsible of??? List me examples with valid facts. Destruction??? Since when the USA and its culture has been synonym of destruction?Perhaps the fact of the americanization of Europe is synonym for you of destruction for you but for me a lot of people like the trends and fashion that come from USA.
People in Europe sometimes should sftu and remember that without the American troops landing in France the 6th june 1944, they wouldn't be born and their family wouldn't even exist. It is also thanks to the Marshall Plan that Europe could rebuild itself.

The problem with Latin Americans and Americans is a mentality problem but also a gang problem.Latin Americans come illegally to USA and dream of easy money when in fact you have to bust your ass off very hard to get something.
Unfortunately, Latin Americans for a very big part are involved in criminal activities and gangs like the Nortenos, Surenos, Mexican mafia, MS 13, 18 streeters, Nuestra Familia, Netas and Latin kings. This is what causes problems to Americans.

Sure not all Americans know about geography or history about the world, but that doesn't mean most of them are stupid or clueless about what happens around the world. I have seen some Brits and other people coming from other European countries who were far to be broad cultured. So generalizing and stereotyping Americans in a bad way is wrong and totally out of the reality. You obviously have too much time on your hands to post crap like this.

Ah so you accuse people of being patriotic ? And what's wrong with it? The fact that you like your country and back it up is a crime?:rolleyes:

The problem of El Salvador and Chile is mainly due to their own leaders, who ruled their countries with an iron fist and this has nothing and jackshit to do with the USA.
 
Last edited:
red-dog said:
To all you Europeans, both of my grandfathers took bullets on your behalf.

Some of you Americans really need to stop leeching off of what your grandfathers did in WWII. It's their accomplishment, not yours. You didn't do jack shit so stop trying to take credit for it. My grandfather was in the Dutch resistance but I don't go around telling other Dutch people they should thank me for what he did. It dishonours him and everyone else who fought and died during WWII.
 
You guys make me smile over my morning coffee.

I was just teasing STDiva, whose posts I find pretty intelligent.

I think it was lost on some, but I'm not sure why. It wasn't that clever and it was kinda redundant. I only expected STDiva to stick his tongue out at me or something like that.

"Now take on the rest of your day..."
 
I'll pay attention to whoever and whatever I feel like. I'm quite capable of sorting fact from fiction using my own brain rather than being told what to believe.

The man is derided because he writes about inconvenient facts that the elite don't want people to know, and nationalistic halfwits are threatened to hear.




So as long as the US feels it was in some greater security interest (which no serious argument can be constructed in favor of) then any amount of ethnic cleaning, state terrorism, war, theft, destruction and murder can be rationalized and justified.

Your country, just like every other empire before it, does not 'work' with other countries, it is only interested in dealing with other nations to further it's own power. That's how empires work.



Really? So why is it the Latin Americans have such a gripe with Americans? What is the reason? I just can't wait for your answer!

This is why it's absolutely pointless trying to get into conversation with the average American about why it is the rest of the world hates them. Not only are you woefully ignorant of what your government has done but you have the gall to argue everything down to a matter of opposing ideologies or discount the historical record entirely on the basis of an illogical gripe from a bunch of people with too much time on their hands. Any accusation of wrong doing by the United States is just impossible for you to accept so you confect some bullshit explanation as to what motivates your critics.

Most of you so utterly blinded by the most tacky form of patriotism and retarded nationalism that it makes any kind of conversations about FP impossible because you are just not willing to read things which contradict your beliefs. Exactly how many books have you read which are critical of America's FP? Have you actually read any of Chomsky's work and gone through the footnotes, double checking his sources to make a scholarly assessment of how well his work checks out? LOL

I went to school with refugees from El Salvador and Chile who grew up seeing decapitated heads being delivered to their villages as a warning and truckloads of corpses from political opponents being tossed off cliffs into the ocean. If only I knew they were just leftist liars I would never have listened to them!


Yeah the disappeared ones are the responsibility of the U.S. huh?
I'm going to sum up why the South American Leftists are such mythmakers-because it allows them to deny the truth. Their societies were backwards because their culture was backward, from the elite who ruled it to the poor people who suffered. The left uses the Gringo and the Anglo to distract from their failed and corrupt revolutions. It's still happening in Mexico and many other countries.


Have I read Chomsky? Plenty but that was before I went to college.


Now let me ask YOU a simple question. Do you ever question your own beliefs? It doesn't look like it from your posts. Also, telling Americans that almost none of them know their own FP as well as you is the height of arrogance and ignorance that you have attributed to the USA.
 
This can also be a problem if these actions are deemed unethical, immoral or illegal. Countries like Iran and North Korea are run by idiots but because their foreign policies have little impact on other countries and their citizens most people are just not bothered by them whereas when the US makes a foreign policy choice a lot of people around the world feel it. Just one minor example is the Diego Garcia military base:

http://www.chagossupport.org.uk/

I'm not here to argue about the effectiveness of US foreign policy. I was just making the statement that the POTUS is the most powerful man on earth. I'm guessing by your response that you agree, or at least it seems so.
 
I fear that within a few years most americans will not recognize the USA anymore because of the drastic changes that will be coming down the pipe in regards to our freedom, history always repeats itself unfortunately
 
UK and Canadian health care are not superior. If you get a cyst or have severe migraine headaches (possibly serious underlying conditions to perhaps cancer), get in line in Canada or the UK. I've had several operations for things like a cyst , tonsilitous, hernia, and there is no wait whatsoever.

This article shows statistics that proves American HC is better.
By Deroy Murdock

Imagine that your two best friends are British and Canadian tobacco addicts. The Brit battles lung cancer. The Canadian endures emphysema and wheezes as he walks around with clanging oxygen canisters. You probably would not think: “Maybe I should pick up smoking.”

The fact that America is even considering government medicine is equally wacky. The state guides health care for our two closest allies: Great Britain and Canada. Like us, these are prosperous, industrial, Anglophone democracies. Nevertheless, compared to America, they suffer higher death rates for diseases, their patients experience severe pain, and they ration medical services.

Look what you’re missing in the U.K.:

* Breast cancer kills 25 percent of its American victims. In Great Britain, the Vatican of single-payer medicine, breast cancer extinguishes 46 percent of its targets.

* Prostate cancer is fatal to 19 percent of its American patients. The National Center for Policy Analysis reports that it kills 57 percent of Britons it strikes.

* Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development data show that the U.K.’s 2005 heart-attack fatality rate was 19.5 percent higher than America’s. This may correspond to angioplasties, which were only 21.3 percent as common there as here.

* The U.K.’s National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) just announced plans to cut its 60,000 annual steroid injections for severe back-pain sufferers to just 3,000. This should save the government 33 million pounds (about $55 million). “The consequences of the NICE decision will be devastating for thousands of patients,” Dr. Jonathan Richardson of Bradford Hospitals Trust told London’s Daily Telegraph. “It will mean more people on opiates, which are addictive, and kill 2,000 a year. It will mean more people having spinal surgery, which is incredibly risky, and has a 50 per cent failure rate.”

* “Seriously ill patients are being kept in ambulances outside hospitals for hours so NHS trusts do not miss Government targets,” Daniel Martin wrote last year in London’s Daily Mail. “Thousands of people a year are having to wait outside accident and emergency departments because trusts will not let them in until they can treat them within four hours, in line with a Labour [party] pledge. The hold-ups mean ambulances are not available to answer fresh 911 calls. Doctors warned last night that the practice of ‘patient-stacking’ was putting patients’ health at risk.”

Things don’t look much better up north, under Canadian socialized medicine.

* Canada has one-third fewer doctors per capita than the OECD average. “The doctor shortage is a direct result of government rationing, since provinces intervened to restrict class sizes in major Canadian medical schools in the 1990s,” Dr. David Gratzer, a Canadian physician and Manhattan Institute scholar, told the U.S. House Ways & Means Committee on June 24. Some towns address the doctor dearth with lotteries in which citizens compete for rare medical appointments.

* “In 2008, the average Canadian waited 17.3 weeks from the time his general practitioner referred him to a specialist until he actually received treatment,” Pacific Research Institute president Sally Pipes, a Canadian native, wrote in the July 2 Investor’s Business Daily. “That’s 86 percent longer than the wait in 1993, when the [Fraser] Institute first started quantifying the problem.”

* Such sloth includes a median 9.7-week wait for an MRI exam, 31.7 weeks to see a neurosurgeon, and 36.7 weeks – nearly nine months – to visit an orthopedic surgeon.

* Thus, Canadian supreme court justice Marie Deschamps wrote in her 2005 majority opinion in Chaoulli v. Quebec, “This case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread, and that, in some cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care.”

Obamacare proponents might argue that their health reforms are neither British nor Canadian, but just modest adjustments to America’s system. This is false. The public option – for which Democrats lust – would fuel an elephantine $1.5 trillion overhaul of this life-and-death industry. Having Uncle Sam in the room while negotiating drug prices and hospital reimbursement rates will be like sitting beside Warren Buffett at an art auction. Guess who goes home with the goodies?

A public option is just the opening bid for eventual nationalization of American medicine. As House Banking Committee chairman Barney Frank (D., Mass.) told SinglepayerAction.Org on July 27: “The best way we’re going to get single payer, the only way, is to have a public option to demonstrate its strength and its power.”

Barack Obama seconds that emotion.

“I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately,” Obama told a March 24, 2007 Service Employees International Union health-care forum. “There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision [single payer] a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out.” As he told the AFL-CIO in 2003: “I happen to be a proponent of single-payer, universal health-care coverage. . . . That’s what I’d like to see.”

And why a public option just for medicine? Wouldn’t government clothing stores be best suited to furnish the garments Americans need to survive each winter? And why not a public option for restaurants? Shouldn’t Americans have universal access to fine dining?

All kidding aside, government medicine has proved an excruciating disaster in the U.K. and Canada. Our allies’ experiences with this dreadful idea should horrify rather than inspire everyday Americans, not to mention seemingly blind Democratic politicians.
http://iusbvision.wordpress.com/200...-vs-canada-vs-britain-health-care-statistics/


As far as in general, in America there are a lot of problems, but there is a reason I've met dozens of people from other continents so happy to be in America. We are one of the best places to live, as are Canada and the UK.
 

roronoa3000

Banned
Some of you Americans really need to stop leeching off of what your grandfathers did in WWII. It's their accomplishment, not yours. You didn't do jack shit so stop trying to take credit for it. My grandfather was in the Dutch resistance but I don't go around telling other Dutch people they should thank me for what he did. It dishonours him and everyone else who fought and died during WWII.
WW2 was a myth silly.
There's NO reason in pointing it out when the man's POINT was perfectly clear. Why do we even label continents exactly? For general ease in identifying an area. If he said except Africa I understand he meant those countries.


Don't reply to my posts anymore if you're going to waste my time with asinine responses.

Goosfraba...goosfraba
 
Top