Guns in the USA - something I read in the papers today

[AFA]

I can walk into my local camping store here in Wisconsin and buy a Colt M4. Is that not an assault rifle? Also I can buy a Barrett M82 .50 sniper rifle. These aren't the kind of guns used in sport or recreation.

I'm not so much for tightening gun laws, just bringin' up a point.

Assault Weapon connotates a military gun which is fully automatic, and very frightening to most people. They are not legal without a high dollar tax stamp, hence illegal without the stamp. You won't find them in your local gun shop unless the dealer has a special permit to transfer them under those stringent conditions.

People do indeed use and shoot Colt M4's and other AR-15 variants in sport and recreation, there are competitive shoots with these and other semi automatic versions of other guns.

 

[pathfinder]

1 - It's your right to exercise or not. Don't take that as meaning if you don't want to nobody else should either.

2 - Right to self defense. Not everyone is Chuck Norris and can disarm a mugger or escape a rapist. If more people had guns criminals would be a lot more hesitant to mess with anyone. Same goes for home defense. While I don't welcome the idea of someone breaking into my house and threating my family, I certainly won't depend on local LE to remove them before they do any damage. If I were ever put in the situation I can assure you the call to 9-1-1 would be to let them know about the dead guy in the ski mask on my floor... not to ask someone to save me.

3 - Education, maturity, and responsibility. This might be the only flaw in the 2nd Amendment... it never took stupid people into account. Which is why crimes involving firearms should always go with the maximum punishment.

3 - Kids shooting up schools? Don't look at the guns as the problem... look at the parents. It all boils down to f'ed up parenting.

4 - Michael Moore is great... at distorting facts... nothing moore.

5 - Who is anyone to judge what kind of firearms are excessive? An "assault rifle" is just as potentially deadly as a flippin' muzzle loader depending on who's using it. But the fact is, if it's being used for home defense, who is anyone to say what is an isn't appropriate for putting down someone who is already breaking the law and more than likely willing to break a few more. In terms of sport... that's what most people buy them for... and if you're going to put a limit on a gun based on what they are capable of doing, well there are a lot of other things people can buy that equally excessive and actually DO a lot more damage than a firearms ever could.

6 -

Originally Posted by mongo18
Also I can buy a Barrett M82 .50 sniper rifle. These aren't the kind of guns used in sport or recreation.

Aren't they? Yeah, they were originally designed for military applications, though not necessarily for anti-personnel purposes. I was an EOD tech and we "used" them for the intended anti-material purposed. For civilians they're just fun to shoot. Anyone who likes bigger and louder gets a huge kick out of them. They're not the most practical rifle since the ammo is relatively expensive unless money is not an issue with your hobby. You're not likely to see someone rob a 7-11 with a Barrett. You're not going to see planes fall out of the sky if more people own them. Odds are, most people don't even know what a .50cal is, and those that do are either avid sport/recreational shooter or misinformed sheep who allow the media to shepherd them with their lies.

 

[AFA]

I think most but definitely not all of the points raised by Michael Moore in Bowling For Columbine still hold true to this day. (Although, I think the fat man's approach is a little too cutting-edge from a responsible journalistic point of view, he attacks his interviewees) Check that movie out. Main point - TOO MANY GUNS IN AMERICA. Don't blame the media for brainwashing the kids, you can't change 'em anyway. Don't blame parents, don't blame politicians, you can't change 'em either. Just impose tougher laws on guns, keep it on a leash and continue to work on it until you suffocate it. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people will die before things eventually work out. But what are you gonna do? Search every home? An instant solution is impossible. Just like the war in Iraq, it'll take a lot of time, a lot of lives, and a lot of patience from the bystanders - the people, the nations, who are not affected by these monstrosities our society and culture has created, to work towards changes. I've said it before: I believe that man can right his wrongs in due time. It won't be too late. Maybe not in our lifetime... But don't be selfish now.

I do blame the media for glamorizing violence and as for man working out his own problems and righting the wrongs? That would be nice but my bet would be on cruelty, violence and greed.

 

[jdb67]

I have an assault Wheelbarrow . . .:tongue:

yeah, me too... it comes in Camo with an extra thick Bucket!!!

 

[pathfinder]

Main point - TOO MANY GUNS IN AMERICA. :::BLAH BLAH BLAH::: blame parents :::BLAH BLAH BLAH::: Just impose tougher laws on guns, keep it on a leash and continue to work on it until you suffocate it. :::BLAH BLAH BLAH:::

Problem isn't the guns... it's the morons who buy them for the wrong reasons or let themselves get seduced by the power they represent. Under different circumstances you can do just as much damage with a knife, or a bat, or a car as you can with a gun. Anything can be used to harm or kill someone else... to include you bare hands. Difference is that because a gun is in fact a killing instrument, people are willing to throw that right away without consideration for the potential consequences.

Yeah... pile on the laws. That sets a great precedence for the law makers to do the same to free speech and every other right once they see they can do it with one. Not to mention that disarming the public is the first step toward tyranny. If you don't know that you need to read up on some history.

 

[Roughneck]

Yeah... pile on the laws. That sets a great precedence for the law makers to do the same to free speech and every other right once they see they can do it with one. Not to mention that disarming the public is the first step toward tyranny. If you don't know that you need to read up on some history.

Ask the folks who complain about the Second Amendment being "outdated" this simple question:

"Well, the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments were written at the same time; using similar logic.

So, if the Second Amendment is outdated, shouldn't the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments be considered outdated as well?"


cheers,

 

[AFA]

Ask the folks who complain about the Second Amendment being "outdated" this simple question:

"Well, the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments were written at the same time; using similar logic.

So, if the Second Amendment is outdated, shouldn't the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments be considered outdated as well?"


cheers,

The Russians used to say the US would self destruct from the inside-out. Now you have politicians who want to speed up the process.

 

[pathfinder]

The Russians used to say the US would self destruct from the inside-out. Now you have politicians who want to speed up the process.

That's the absolute truth. We'll never be "toppled" by an invading Army... we'll simply fall apart from within and re-form under a new government/constitution... It's been said that one of the reasons we don't get invaded is because of our armed populace.

 

[Roughneck]

The Russians used to say the US would self destruct from the inside-out. Now you have politicians who want to speed up the process.

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy"

cheers,

 

[AFA]

cheers,

Yes, how is in our own best interest and for our own good, to disarm law abiding citizens?

In WW1 there was the French Chauchat, a gun that was pushed on troops which was prone to jamming, with an open area of magazine exposed to mud and rain. There was also a far superior weapon available to the American's, the BAR, but this was alegedly not introduced to the troops for fear the Germans would capture some and reproduce it. Therefore, troops were killed trying to use an inferior weapon some ass in Washington decided was in their best interest when they would have had superior firepower to the Germans had they used the gun not allowed to be assigned them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat

 

[Roughneck]

Yes, how is in our own best interest and for our own good, to disarm law abiding citizens?

"Citizen?"

What does that word mean? I'm confused....


cheers,


"The difference between a Citizen and a Subject is the Right to Bear Arms".

 

[Peter Gazinya]

If we're going to ban all guns then we have to ban all swimming pools.

In a given year there is one drowning of a child for every 11,000 swimming pools in the US. That is 550 children under the age of 10 dead every year. Meanwhile, there is one child killed by a gun for every 1 million guns. In a country with an estimated 200 million guns, this means that roughly 175 children under the age of 10 die every year from guns, while 550 die in swimming pools.*

The likelihood of a death by pool (1 in 11,000) vs. death by gun (1 in 1,000,000+) isn't even close. Your child is 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident than as a result of gunplay.*

Most Americans, and everybody else, are terrible risk assessors. The basic reality is that the risks that scare people and the risks that kill people are very different.*

You can have my swimming pool when you pry it out of my cold, dead backyard.:ak47:

*Source: "Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything"

 

[Roughneck]

If we're going to ban all guns then we have to ban all swimming pools.

In a given year there is one drowning of a child for every 11,000 swimming pools in the US. That is 550 children under the age of 10 dead every year. Meanwhile, there is one child killed by a gun for every 1 million guns. In a country with an estimated 200 million guns, this means that roughly 175 children under the age of 10 die every year from guns, while 550 die in swimming pools.*

The likelihood of a death by pool (1 in 11,000) vs. death by gun (1 in 1,000,000+) isn't even close. Your child is 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident than as a result of gunplay.*

Most Americans, and everybody else, are terrible risk assessors. The basic reality is that the risks that scare people and the risks that kill people are very different.*

You can have my swimming pool when you pry it out of my cold, dead backyard.:ak47:

*Source: "Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything"

Ahh Petya! It is sooooo good to see you back! How I've missed your posts!

cheers,

 

[pathfinder]

It's so nice to know there are at least a few stable-minded individuals in this forum.

 

[Imagine]

Ask the folks who complain about the Second Amendment being "outdated" this simple question:

"Well, the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments were written at the same time; using similar logic.

So, if the Second Amendment is outdated, shouldn't the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments be considered outdated as well?"

Yes.

 

[AFA]

"Citizen?"

What does that word mean? I'm confused....


cheers,


"The difference between a Citizen and a Subject is the Right to Bear Arms".

I thought a subject was like a serf. Under the control and protection of a higher authority, while a citizen as in Ancient Rome had rights and was alleged to make his own decisions or so I've thought until about 1990 or so.

 

[Facetious]

If we're going to ban all guns then we have to ban all swimming pools.

Shush up ! :1orglaugh I still enjoy a swim !



If this passes, I''m a gonna lease me about a dozen of each >



http://www.rockmate.com/Image4LR.jpg • Does this comply w/ local vehicle code(s) ? •

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zacky8/458348253/ • Doesn't quite have the reach :o Ohh ! That's right ! We're only spreading & filling !

Ahh, Govt. Contracts :rubbinghandstogether:

 

[Member2019]

Irresponsiblity ...

Irresponsibility kills people far more than any inanimate objects.

I don't drink, yet drinking kills more people than guns, including causing irresponsibility with guns too.
But I'm not calling for alcohol to be outlawed, because I trust you to be responsible, even if a large percentage are not.

I'm for rights, I'm for responsibility, I'm for self-reliance, I'm for self-judgment.
If you aren't, then it reflects on yourself more than myself, and you should keep your own issues to yourself, not press them upon me.

 

[ninetysixcavy]

I know a lot of Americans cum / come here. I f you have the time to read it, whether you are American or not I wondered what you think?

Mel

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2190804,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

I think that when the US Gov. takes my right to bare arms away, the country is no longer good to live in anymore. (I heard some old English fella say that on a show some time ago. Can't remember which one :dunno But it holds true.

^Source^Well here we go again !

Name one single country, where an imposed general disarmament of its citizens led to an expansion of liberties throughout ?

(I) could easily come up with ten - fifteen - twenty - (more ?)
Issues that are of much greater concern, relative to safety & well being etc.
Most of these issues tie in with the illegal alien invasion ! But then there are those who insist "we're all one" "we are the world" "we are citizens of the world"

Leave them • Lost causes • Good riddance

This is hilarious -


If said author would pull his head out - He could discuss - The sizable Chinese arms shipments into Mexico. Said shipments include a great deal of fully automatic 7.62 x 39mm AK 47 clone firearms. Now these
(a toy clone- here) things aren't your American - garden variety, target rifles. These are designed to kill ! WTF ! (?) This author, (The Guardian article) would take your knife as you enter the arena to the pistol draw !

*US Border Patrol has, in fact, snagged some of these shipments being smuggled into the USA, via thug drug smuggler - gangsters. Am I being to judgemental ? you pompous ass ! You wouldn't know the first thing about personal defences. Weak brainwashed children ! Pathetic excuse for a human
being ! you always have a smart ass rebut in the defence of those who would just as soon cut your throat. Wake up ! . . . Thank You



Be well / Take care ~

Thank you. As you well know, we are/have been invaded by a foreign country and our soveriengty as a nation has been violated, spit on, laughed at by those from south of us. Here is a read you will enjoy (or hate, as the nauseating facts sink in as you read it:

http://members.aol.com/EvCathCh/Illegals--FifthColumn.HTML

I can go on and on about this, but just read the article, and you will understand how I feel about the sad state America has come to.

It's so nice to know there are at least a few stable-minded individuals in this forum.

You'd be surprised, my friend. I figured it would be loaded with anti-gun fascists (there's a few), but I was pleasently surprised to see so many red-blooded Americans well aware of this dangerous talk of disarming the citizens: See here: http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=120202 There's a few flake's posting in that thread, but most understand how important this issue is.

PS: From OP linked article; I like this part the best...

Critics of America's gun culture often point to other nations with high levels of gun ownership - such as Canada and Switzerland - but much lower levels of violent crime. The fact is that America itself is equally divided. Patrick lives in a quiet, rural part of Michigan just across the state line from Ohio and the town of Toledo where he works. 'I would be amazed if anyone within four miles of me did not have a gun,' he said 'But our homicide rate is zero.'

Then look at where Cassidy lives. He has an apartment in Philadelphia, a city that is just as flooded with guns as Patrick's rural idyll, but also suffers from inner-city social ills. It has a stratospheric murder rate.

...(^Duh, cause that's where all the crime is, moron^). Which segways into my brief story. I grew up in a relatively rough neighborhood, and fell in with some of the bad crowd from my parts. It wasn't too bad a neighborhood, but it wasn't great. Our house was robbed twice, and I can never let my girl leave late at night without watching her get into her car and in drive. But moreover, as I stated, when I was younger I fell in with the bad crowd, witnessed a good bit of crime. Ever had a gun pulled on you? I have, and it isn't fun, and it's even less fun when it's some two-bit thug who had a few too many. I digress, but here's the point I want to make: ALL the criminals have guns. I know, because I mingled with them, and it is a proven fact. Which is why I am possibly one of the biggest proponents of the right to bare arms on this forum. For the simple fact that I know the criminal element are all armed. It's that simple for me. Nothing else will ever sway me on this subject (and I won't go into the trouble countries that disarmed their citizens are going through, because I'm sure many of you are aware of them!).


I would just urge all of you to bring this point up with your elected legislators the next time they speak such blasphemy of taking your right to bare arms away, as they are citizens of this country as well. If they take our right away to own a firearm, they too must disarm, including any goverment funded bodyguards they may have at their side doing their duty in "representing" us. Nuff' said. :wave2:

 

[pancha]

great thread!
the problem I have with guns is the way they seem to be viewed by our younger generations. maybe its due to how things are portrayed in movies, music, etc., but it seems that they view guns and their use as a means to solve their problems. it's disheartening hearing stories of kids bringing firearms to school. what happened to workin out your problems, or at the very worst getting in a couple fist-fights. nowadays, the mentallity seems to be to shoot someone in order to get even, regardless of how stupid the argument/altercation was or was about.
I grew up in somewhat of a rough area, had to worry about being gangs, gettin jumped, etc, but never about gettin shot in school! WTF!