Guns in the USA - something I read in the papers today

[McRocket]

Where does it end? If they take that amendment away, lets just take them all away. That's how it starts, where does it end...

It begins and ends exactly where a majority of the population want it to.
You are a democracy after all.

 

[Roughneck]

It begins and ends exactly where a majority of the population want it to.
You are a democracy after all.

Actually, we are a (Constitutional) "Republic". Nowhere among our principles is it ever mentioned that "majority rules".

Ever. (Take our system of "Electoral college" for example).

Please re-read our founding documents and educate yourself about our principles before passing judgment on us.

Thank you.

cheers,

 

[Roughneck]

Re: But what is a militia?

In my opinion, you really should stop taking this so seriously. This is a porn chat forum, not the floor of the US senate.

LMAO! So said **********.

What's the matter - you run out of defensible arguments?
Or do you just like to spout off your 'opinions' without "stuff" to back it up with?

Well yeah - no one ever said this was the Presidential-fucking-debate. :1orglaugh Why can't y'all just accept it for what it is?

An "online discussion".

No one ever said "this is the debate that will change the world". No one even presumed it as such. It's amusing how often I run into the "you're taking this too seriously" excuse from folks who can't rationalize their argument. "This is just the internet and it's a porn forum"... blah.. blah... blah (like it ever made a difference. Do discussions lose validity simply because they are held on porn forums?).

Well, suit yourself there McRocket.

I wish you a good day :wave2:

cheers,

 

[McRocket]

Actually, we are a (Constitutional) "Republic". Nowhere among our principles is it ever mentioned that "majority rules".

Ever. (Take our system of "Electoral college" for example).

Are you a pure democracy? No. Is any major country?

But I would say that your countries system qualifies as a democracy in the general sense of the word.

Please re-read our founding documents and educate yourself about our principles before passing judgment on us.

okee dokee. I will do that when you re-read Merriam-Webster's online dictionary just so I can be sure that you are properly using all the words that you are using.

Have a nice day.

 

[McRocket]

Re: But what is a militia?

LMAO! So said **********.

What's the matter - you run out of defensible arguments?
Or do you just like to spout off your 'opinions' without "stuff" to back it up with?

You are reading too much into what I typed. I simply typed that I think you are taking it too seriously.

That was not a request to terminate the discussion. Nor did I type it was. I was simply expressing a thought that occurred to me when I read your posts in this thread. A bit of friendly advice to you, if you will.

 

[momadaboo]

People and their fixations with guns... I just dont get it. This the 21st century, we don't need to carry around handguns to "protect ourselves". I myself enjoy hunting but the idea of carrying around a gun with me to protect myself is absolutely moronic. It kills me how naive some people can be.

 

[ninetysixcavy]

It AMAZES me that in a time when we're illegally invading people, when the rich are getting richer and the rest are working harder and longer than ever, and when our government is lying to us more than ever... that we are the MOST inspired to stand up and fight, the MOST passionate, and the MOST stirred by...... guns. No wonder there's fucking 50 gun magazines on the shelves of Wegmans which tells me I can't sell my CD there cause there are girls in bikinis inside. No wonder. There is a strange microchip in the computerized brain of this country that seems to think that the people should be free to live any way they wish and choose their laws and government EXCEPT if the people decide they want guns outlawed. Then suddenly it's cough cough, lets dust off the 300 year old papers.

WTF? How is it that THIS topic sparks more debate than, say, our illegal invasions and our modern day imperialism? It baffles me.

I actually whole-heartedly agree with you there. We have no business intruding on other peoples business, anywhere. Being that you feel the same way, I likewise assume you would alright with our country being neutral like Sweden or Norway? Or would you preffer we still save the world from the rest of the ills, like letting every downtrodden soul from Mexico to Hong Kong into our country?

Oh. My. God. Fox News should hire you as their #1 preacher. My god. What world do you live in. How many undocumented immigrants do you know? Those people support our way of life. They are shit on by all of us and for the most part not a whimper from them. Just trying to make that half-of-minimum-wage under the table paycheck to send back to Guadalajara for their impoverished family. They are used by the system. They are the backbone of America. Poverty leads to crime. Not immigration. Those people come to the richest country in the world to try and help the ones they love and end up being our slave labourers. Two dollars an hour in the desert heat.

It appears you bought into the lies, too? Uh, uh, uh....Not me. Funny how when you tell a lie over, and over, and over, and over, that people actually begin to believe it. Slave labor? I can't even get a decent fucking job. Do I need 99c iceberg lettuce? No. I can grow my own tomatoes. I can clean my own bathroom, and I could sure as hell use that job that my uncle used to have (making $20/hr FROM THE RICH GUY) who just got undercut from an illegal who took half as much pay. Some food for thought for you:

Immigration Is Hurting The U.S. Worker
Low Paid American workers have borne the heaviest impact of immigration



25 Million Less-Educated Americans Are Jobless While 7 Million Illegal Aliens Have Jobs


Want some more? (PLEASE READ THIS. It's brief):

MYTH: Immigrants Do the Jobs Americans Won't Do

Lastly, you totally tip-toed right around my last question to you, quite nicely I might add. What about this part of the OP's original article?:

Quote:
Critics of America's gun culture often point to other nations with high levels of gun ownership - such as Canada and Switzerland - but much lower levels of violent crime. The fact is that America itself is equally divided. Patrick lives in a quiet, rural part of Michigan just across the state line from Ohio and the town of Toledo where he works. 'I would be amazed if anyone within four miles of me did not have a gun,' he said 'But our homicide rate is zero.'

Feel free to answer when you are ready.

 

[Facetious]

Re: But what is a militia?

A militia ? An informal auxiliary of law abiding citizenry, loyal to such U.S Constitution. ~

Fair enough. Just as I think you are clueless as to what the 2'nd Amendment really states and means.

Then type it in the first place, damnit ! :1orglaugh Let's go ! I'm all eyes - What does it state ? What doe it mean ? We can agree or dis . . . the latter it appears . . . and you know . . . ? That's OK !
BTW - Your argument(s) remind me of the
Hegelian Dialect - full of rhetoric and an endless labyrinth of semantic passages, infinite and ubiquitous.

I am in continuance in my campaign as to why you would invest the time you do to dwell upon our Constitution.

WADR - I've yet to venture into yours. Someday :o

What are the laws up in your area regarding basic firearms ownership ?

Can any law abiding individual own . . . say, just a plain out of the box Rem 700 / Winchester 70 pre 64 bolt action rifle ? Or is ownership somewhat suspended ?

Para Ordnance is a fine Canadian manufacturer !

McRock - You do realize that personally carry permits are extra in most states ? . Even if I lived in a "shall issue" state, I seriously doubt that I would ever carry a concealed arm. I prefer to play my street smarts, which have kept me outta peril for forty somethin' years yet.

Would have been more convenient if you just typed that in the first place.

^ The discussion, shall it continue, will erode into a rancorous - scorched earth cocktail - o - molotov . . .pushin' and shovin' ad nauseam.

I will agree to disagree with McRocket . . . and that is perfectly fine on my end. I harbor no animosity / ill will.

 

[BlueBalls]

Hey, im english im getting most of my argument from what i have seen in The West Wing. I really could care less

 

[Peter Gazinya]

Feel free to answer when you are ready.

That ain't gonna happen. Anytime Fox's dead horse beaten, la la land pipe dream arguments are refuted with factual evidence and he disappears from the landscape to write another song about how great it would be if the world would just live as one.

He must take his lines straight from the book of cry baby rhetoric:

when the rich are getting richer and the rest are working harder and longer than ever

Hmm, never heard that one before.

How many undocumented immigrants do you know? Those people support our way of life. They are shit on by all of us and for the most part not a whimper from them

Really? Last I looked I didn't see roving gangs of rednecks beating up Mexican landscape crews behind the walmart and shaking them down for lunch money. Actually some of those rednecks are at the umemployment office because the landscape company they used to work for let them go in favor of cheaper labor. Wonder where that cheaper labor came from? Illegal immigrants are not "shit on" by america. The vast majority turn a blind eye and accept the fact that every apartment complex in metropolitan America will have the hedges trimmed by short men of Latin American descent.

Just trying to make that half-of-minimum-wage under the table paycheck to send back to Guadalajara for their impoverished family. They are used by the system.

Used by the system? They wouldn't be here if that "system" didn't provide a better income than the land they travelled thousands of miles from to get here. So who's using who here Fox? If we provide such pathetic working conditions and habitually "shit on" everyone who comes here, why do so many risk life and limb leaving their homeland to come here and endure such atrocities. You are so full of baseless rhetoric.

They are the backbone of America. Poverty leads to crime. Not immigration.

The "backbone of America"? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at such a ludicrous statement. It's as though this country was lost, unproductive, and completely in shambles until migrant workers came to save the day. Immigration leads to poverty, so yes, immigration, by your own words, leads to crime. It's supply and demand again, Fox. Illegal immigrants flood the work force, making it more difficult for unskilled laborers to get jobs. White and Black unskilled laborers. No job, no money, plenty of free time. What next? Petty crime, drugs, the cycle begins. Drug problem escalates, crime goes along with it.

And another thing. If poverty leads to crime why do think eliminating guns will eliminate crime? Didn't you just say poverty is what leads to crime? Getting rid of guns won't get rid of poverty will it? Oh, but it's a sexy, contemporary argument that you've seen played out so many times by the antagonist liberal on the right side of the screen debating the right wing protagonist on Fox News night after night. Perhaps you have been watching too much Fox News and gleaned so much empty rhetoric from it.

No wonder there's fucking 50 gun magazines on the shelves of Wegmans which tells me I can't sell my CD there cause there are girls in bikinis inside.

Yes, a repressed violent society in which so many freedoms have been lost. Or is it..

There is a strange microchip in the computerized brain of this country that seems to think that the people should be free to live any way they wish and choose their laws and government EXCEPT if the people decide they want guns outlawed.

: A land where all freedoms exist except for the desire to vote on gun laws? My god man, how can you so drastically contradict yourself in two consecutive sentences? Do you want an iron fisted government deciding your freedoms on all things, including guns AND bikini clad women inside a CD or a government that still allows their citizens at least a lit bit of freedom to make their own decisions? The cake you want to have and eat too is sitting in the greener grass that is on the other side of the fence.

WTF? How is it that THIS topic sparks more debate than, say, our illegal invasions and our modern day imperialism? It baffles me.

Take a look at the source of that question to answer it. THIS topic sparks more debate from YOU than those others you mentioned. Look up and down the "talk" section. There are numerous threads discussing the war in Iraq and our extremely precarious practice of nation building and imposing "democracy" on those countries that neither wish for it nor could successfully administer it. That you've chosen to ignore, or have not noticed, this fact comes as no surprise.

To clarify my position, I do not nor have ever owned a gun, only shot one a scant few times and I am completely disgusted by the Bush administration and what the neocon authoritarian social dominator government has done to our country.

 

[McRocket]

Re: But what is a militia?

I am in continuance in my campaign as to why you would invest the time you do to dwell upon our Constitution.

Just as I would ask you why you feel the need and/or desire to have a 'campaign' as to why I do.

I am human. So are Americans. That seems as good a reason as any.

What are the laws up in your area regarding basic firearms ownership ?

Can any law abiding individual own . . . say, just a plain out of the box Rem 700 / Winchester 70 pre 64 bolt action rifle ? Or is ownership somewhat suspended ?

I am not aware of firearms rules and regulations in Canada to the point that I feel qualified to answer your questions.
You should probably consult the Canadian government website for that information.

I harbor no animosity / ill will.

Nor do I.

 

[Facetious]

Realize, Mcrocket -

Your profile - file - of sort, will be very lonely :1orglaugh

As, you are the first . . . and presumably, the last of
guys I've ever heard of that love muscle autos and juxtaposedly hate firearms.


:dunno:

 

[Facetious]

BTW Free Clinic ! !

This Canadian , Todd Jarrett, is one bad arse sport shooter !! One of the very best in the world in fact.

He likes people too ! How 'bout that ! :1orglaugh

 

[titsrock]

Wow. What an entertaining thread. I would not have guessed that "guns" would be the topic that generates the most real-world passion between people.

I am definitely a Liberal. I respect the power of the Constitution, but I realize that it was a document written 230 years ago and it is being "manipulated" by various forces within America in ways that the Founding Fathers did not ever envision.

The Bill of Rights contains some very important things that are relevant today. It, too, needs to be "revised" to fit modern times.

Basically, we have 230 years of additional experience and "evolved intelligence." We need to apply some of the "evolved intelligence" to make sure America lives up to "Life, Liberty and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS."

With respect to guns...we clearly need some more reform. We do not need to ban guns completely because we still need people to hunt and keep some numbers of "creatures" in check (namely deer and some birds).

Maybe a realistic option is to actually adopt a WILD WILD WEST initiative and look at banning private possession of guns in high-population centers (i.e. Top 100 cities).

 

[McRocket]

Realize, Mcrocket -

Your profile - file - of sort, will be very lonely :1orglaugh

I have no idea what you are typing about.

As, you are the first . . . and presumably, the last of
guys I've ever heard of that love muscle autos and juxtaposedly hate firearms.


:dunno:

Exactly where did I type that I hate firearms?

So many people on here read WAY too much into things.

Just because I disagree with many people's interpretation of your 2'nd Amendment, doesn't necessarily mean I hate guns.

 

[Facetious]

No mention of personal - private property and the rights thereof ?

√ A regional increase in the occurrence of home invasion assaults / robberies ?

Just call the cops ? ! Sheesh ! :o

 

[Facetious]

Just because I disagree with many people's interpretation of your 2'nd Amendment, doesn't necessarily mean I hate guns.

There's nothing left to get at . . . it's either the one or the other ~

May I ask what initially brought this to your attention (Interpretation of "2") ?
Would you feel equally compelled to also discuss . . say . . the 14th in any depth / capacity ?

 

[ninetysixcavy]

Para Ordnance is a fine Canadian manufacturer !

Looks very similar to the one my father owns... He has a C&C license as well; he only went to get it because some fascists were arguing about tightening up his right to own a gun.

That ain't gonna happen. Anytime Fox's dead horse beaten, la la land pipe dream arguments are refuted with factual evidence and he disappears from the landscape to write another song about how great it would be if the world would just live as one.

He must take his lines straight from the book of cry baby rhetoric: Hmm, never heard that one before.
Really? Last I looked I didn't see roving gangs of rednecks beating up Mexican landscape crews behind the walmart and shaking them down for lunch money. Actually some of those rednecks are at the umemployment office because the landscape company they used to work for let them go in favor of cheaper labor. Wonder where that cheaper labor came from? Illegal immigrants are not "shit on" by america. The vast majority turn a blind eye and accept the fact that every apartment complex in metropolitan America will have the hedges trimmed by short men of Latin American descent. Used by the system? They wouldn't be here if that "system" didn't provide a better income than the land they travelled thousands of miles from to get here. So who's using who here Fox? If we provide such pathetic working conditions and habitually "shit on" everyone who comes here, why do so many risk life and limb leaving their homeland to come here and endure such atrocities. You are so full of baseless rhetoric. The "backbone of America"? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at such a ludicrous statement. It's as though this country was lost, unproductive, and completely in shambles until migrant workers came to save the day. Immigration leads to poverty, so yes, immigration, by your own words, leads to crime. It's supply and demand again, Fox. Illegal immigrants flood the work force, making it more difficult for unskilled laborers to get jobs. White and Black unskilled laborers. No job, no money, plenty of free time. What next? Petty crime, drugs, the cycle begins. Drug problem escalates, crime goes along with it.
.

It's unfortunate that more people don't see what is happening to this country. Here's the deal: We elliminate all these (40 million) illegals, and it goes like this: The RICH WON'T GET SO RICH...they'll be forced to pay US (Yes, us, U.S. citizens) MORE. Simple!

And for godsakes people, it's not a race issue, it's a common sense issue....People of ALL colors (citizens, mind you) are getting screwed. Asain, Black, White, Latino. etc. etc. etc...BTW, where's my job! I sure could use a decent one, to pay for $4 a gallon of gas, higher property tax, groceries, bills, etc...

Just as I would ask you why you feel the need and/or desire to have a 'campaign' as to why I do.

I am human. So are Americans. That seems as good a reason as any.

I am not aware of firearms rules and regulations in Canada to the point that I feel qualified to answer your questions.
You should probably consult the Canadian government website for that information.

Nor do I.

Nor do I. I'm very peaceful. Not like all those violent Irishman I grew up with who loved to brawl so much and partake in the drink. Nothing against Irishman, I'm part Irish myself...

Wow. What an entertaining thread. I would not have guessed that "guns" would be the topic that generates the most real-world passion between people.

I am definitely a Liberal. I respect the power of the Constitution, but I realize that it was a document written 230 years ago and it is being "manipulated" by various forces within America in ways that the Founding Fathers did not ever envision.

The Bill of Rights contains some very important things that are relevant today. It, too, needs to be "revised" to fit modern times.

Basically, we have 230 years of additional experience and "evolved intelligence." We need to apply some of the "evolved intelligence" to make sure America lives up to "Life, Liberty and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS."

With respect to guns...we clearly need some more reform. We do not need to ban guns completely because we still need people to hunt and keep some numbers of "creatures" in check (namely deer and some birds).

Maybe a realistic option is to actually adopt a WILD WILD WEST initiative and look at banning private possession of guns in high-population centers (i.e. Top 100 cities).

Those may be the environments that could use MORE legal ownvership of firearms. I can't remember where I found the story (I'll try to dig it up), but a bar had a "bans guns in this premecise"; after getting robbed at gun point by two criminals, the next week the sign was gone. True story. They haven't been robbed again since.

Good day to you all

 

[McRocket]

There's nothing left to get at . . . it's either the one or the other ~

May I ask what initially brought this to your attention (Interpretation of "2") ?
Would you feel equally compelled to also discuss . . say . . the 14th in any depth / capacity ?

These questions belong in pm more then here, IMO.

 

[McRocket]

...people who lace their replies with personal digs only make themselves look bad in the end.

I agree.

I don't think the government should have ANY power except to exercise the will of the people and I think the majority of the people should have the right to ban ANYTHING that they think is making their lives miserable, and if that be guns, then so be it.

I agree.