'Gunman' Shot 21 Times By NY Cops And Lives

[georges]

If you want sure to make scum dead then there are seven big game calibers to consider: 44 magnum, 454 casull, 475 linebaugh, 460 s&w magnum, 478 wildey magnum, 50AE and 500 s&w magnum. The guns that fire them are heavy and recoil is important but one shot with them in the heart of in the head assure imediate death. When you go to kill some scum, always aim at the heart or the head and only use big game cartridge with the heaviest loads.
Had I to work in the police,I would pick a 500s&w revolver over a glock http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57771_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

 

[Moonchild22]

21 times. His new nickname should be Blackjack.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

If you want sure to make scum dead then there are seven big game calibers to consider: 44 magnum, 454 casull, 475 linebaugh, 460 s&w magnum, 478 wildey magnum, 50AE and 500 s&w magnum. The guns that fire them are heavy and recoil is important but one shot with them in the heart of in the head assure imediate death. When you go to kill some scum, always aim at the heart or the head and only use big game cartridge with the heaviest loads.
Had I to work in the police,I would pick a 500s&w revolver over a glock http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57771_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

If you lived in the Outback or on a pirate ship, then go on with your bad self. But imagine what 454 Casull or 500S&W does in a home or apartment building. Drywall. Neighbors.

First off, it requires a big, heavy revolver. A BFG with a five round capacity and a round fast and heavy enough to travel into places it wasn't intended to go. Do you really trust a cop, or anybody, to fire on a mobile pursuit...with a 454Casull? It's a bear round. An Elk round. Not a city/town/trailer park/project round.

.40SW is Goldilocks so long as departments don't try to unbark it into 9mm performance. And I don't see that happening.

...as .45ACP sits in the back of the class with it's hand raised up into the air. Uncle Sam wants 9mm, Johnny Law wants .40 and everybody who works for them weeps when they clean their 1911.

 

[ChefChiTown]

'Gunman' Shot 21 Times By NY Cops And Lives

Can I ask why the word "Gunman" is in quotes, as if the gunman in the story didn't really have a gun and wasn't really shooting at anybody?

:dunno:

Anyway, I Googled this story and found a few different news sources, all of which seem to have a fairly similar recap of the story:

Angel Alvarez was involved in a struggle with Luis Soto, two men who had apparently had a long standing feud with one another. The struggle was over a gun, as both men were apparently trying to "end" the conflict, AKA - kill each other. During the struggle, police arrived. Shots were fired at the police and the police returned fire, which is when Alvarez, Soto and 5 others were hit by police fire.

Yet, the story that everybody is talking about on all of these news stories is how Angel Alvarez might be BREAKING A RECORD? How fucking sad is our media here in the US? Seriously. That's fucked up.

Let's make the police look like bad guys for shooting somebody, even though they were apparently fired upon by that person (which gives them the legal right to fire back), but let's make a man who was apparently shooting at police officers seem like he accomplished something cool. Yeah, we're not fucked up at all.



FYI - I'm well aware that some of the people hit were apparently innocent bystanders. That is unfortunate and it's a terrible thing to have happened. But, let's not make it seem like the police were aiming for them, ok?

 

[ChefChiTown]

21 times. His new nickname should be Blackjack.

With a name like Angelo Alvarez, his new name shouldn't be Blackjack - it should be Mexicanjack.

...

...

...

...oh, is that not...you didn't...oh...I see...nevermind.

 

[Moonchild22]

With a name like Angelo Alvarez, his new name shouldn't be Blackjack - it should be Mexicanjack.

...

...

...

...oh, is that not...you didn't...oh...I see...nevermind.

 

[Zolf J. Kimbly]

Looks like these pigs need to lay off the donuts and spend more time at the shooting range.

 

[CurtJa]

WTF? If it's true they hit six other people (including two of their own) then their accuracy is all kinds of terrible, or they have some serious problems in the clutch. Were one or more of them blind?

 

[Death-Proof-69]

If you lived in the Outback or on a pirate ship, then go on with your bad self. But imagine what 454 Casull or 500S&W does in a home or apartment building. Drywall. Neighbors.

First off, it requires a big, heavy revolver. A BFG with a five round capacity and a round fast and heavy enough to travel into places it wasn't intended to go. Do you really trust a cop, or anybody, to fire on a mobile pursuit...with a 454Casull? It's a bear round. An Elk round. Not a city/town/trailer park/project round.

.40SW is Goldilocks so long as departments don't try to unbark it into 9mm performance. And I don't see that happening.

...as .45ACP sits in the back of the class with it's hand raised up into the air. Uncle Sam wants 9mm, Johnny Law wants .40 and everybody who works for them weeps when they clean their 1911.

saw a .500 S&W revolver with a four inch barrel up close the other day...just sayin

 

[betagammapi]

The way I'm reading it right now is that the cops fucked up, killed this Soto dude, and then tried to cover it up by taking out the person (people) that was in the best position to expose the cops.

...and people wonder why I don't trust a fucking donut eater.

 

[Rey C.]

Here's a compilation of some recent NYPD recruits. Sounds like at least half of them made it onto the force.

 

[D-rock]

I have to question why anybody would ever be legitimately shot that many times. The only way for it to happen is if the cops intentionally went overboard. (Unless they had multiple people that had weapons that had a rate of fire of a fast chain gun. which they didn't.) It would take a very concerted, intentional, and prolonged for a gun fight, effort to keep plugging somebody with that many bullets.

 

[Ulysses31]

Murder Charges Dropped

http://harlemworldblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/murder-charges-dropped-for-harlem-man/

 

[Nokternal]

Damn. I bet he's going to be shitting metal for months.

No but he will probably be shitting in a bag for the rest of his life.

I have to question why anybody would ever be legitimately shot that many times. The only way for it to happen is if the cops intentionally went overboard. (Unless they had multiple people that had weapons that had a rate of fire of a fast chain gun. which they didn't.) It would take a very concerted, intentional, and prolonged for a gun fight, effort to keep plugging somebody with that many bullets.

You must not have a lot of experience with semi automatic hand guns.. you can empty a 14 or 15 round clip very very fast. If you have 3 or four officers fire into a target they could get 48 rounds off in less than 5 seconds. And since the standard NYPD street patroller uses 9mm rounds it would be easy to remain standing and continue firing back while being hit again and again due to the adrenaline. In fact most people who get shot with 9mm pistols don't even notice they are hit until later when they actually see blood or feel its wetness. Many people even think they simply wet their pants but its actually blood in their pants from being shot.

 

[dogbone27]

Wait wait wait wait...so superman is spanish.

 

[Nokternal]

No SuperBeasto is spanish

 

[D-rock]

You must not have a lot of experience with semi automatic hand guns..

If you believe that then you would be VERY wrong.

you can empty a 14 or 15 round clip very very fast. If you have 3 or four officers fire into a target they could get 48 rounds off in less than 5 seconds. And since the standard NYPD street patroller uses 9mm rounds it would be easy to remain standing and continue firing back while being hit again and again due to the adrenaline. In fact most people who get shot with 9mm pistols don't even notice they are hit until later when they actually see blood or feel its wetness. Many people even think they simply wet their pants but its actually blood in their pants from being shot.

5 seconds is practically an eternity in a gun fight like that. It's not like a quick double or triple tap. It is NOT very fast. Go and stand in front of something like a clock that ticks away the seconds and pretend your firing at something. You have to stand there and make a concerted effort to keep plugging away round after round. It's not a reactionary thing. Also it's pretty stupid from both a tactical (for many reasons I don't feel like getting into at the moment) and reasonableness standpoint to do that. At best it shows the gross incompetence of the officers or at least the people that trained them or shows them to be mentally unfit for the job because when the crap hit the fan they couldn't keep it together.

 

[Nokternal]

I'm not saying that they are not incompetent. I am saying that shooting a person for 4 or 5 full seconds doesn't show intention of over doing it, just a lack of discipline.

 

[ChefChiTown]

I have to question why anybody would ever be legitimately shot that many times. The only way for it to happen is if the cops intentionally went overboard. (Unless they had multiple people that had weapons that had a rate of fire of a fast chain gun. which they didn't.) It would take a very concerted, intentional, and prolonged for a gun fight, effort to keep plugging somebody with that many bullets.

According to the article posted by the OP, there were 4 police officers who shot a total of 46 shots. That's close to 12 shots each. Is that a lot? Yeah, it is. But, given the circumstances (which we still don't know exactly what they were), an average of 12 shots fired by each police officer doesn't seem like all that much to me.

Personally, if someone was shooting at me and trying to kill me, I wouldn't be pacing my return fire - I'd be pulling the trigger fairly quickly. And, if I were to do that, I could fire off 12 shots in just a few seconds. I'm sure you'd do the same.

Just something to think about.

Unfortunately, I haven't heard any updates on this story, so I can't support or defend what happened - not for any of the parties involved.

 

[Ulysses31]

About the only update I could find, a very hard incident to get information on for some reason

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/nyregion/20shoot.html