Fuck all Religion!

[Icewater Jones]

It's like having a loving parent watching from afar

He doesn't watch from afar. In fact, God is whatever distance you believe, but God is there. It's like someone you love can tell you they love you in person or on the phone in another country... the feeling is the same either way, and either way, that person exists.

 

[Nester6]

It's like having a loving parent watching from afar

He doesn't watch from afar. In fact, God is whatever distance you believe, but God is there. It's like someone you love can tell you they love you in person or on the phone in another country... the feeling is the same either way, and either way, that person exists.

I sincerely hope your right, however it sounds like self delusion to me.

 

[Nester6]

It's like having a loving parent watching from afar

He doesn't watch from afar. In fact, God is whatever distance you believe, but God is there. It's like someone you love can tell you they love you in person or on the phone in another country... the feeling is the same either way, and either way, that person exists.

http://www.badashley.com/IMG/08/28+...haze+naughty+catholic+schoolgirl+strip+2.html

 

[Icewater Jones]

One of the biggest issues, that even I have with religious folk, is the fact that they try to sell you miracles and magic. This is one reason that I don't attend churches even though I am Christian. This idea that God answers prayers is foolish... GOD DOES NOT ANSWER PRAYERS!!!!!!

God doesn't answer what already has an answer. Many so called Christians are quick to tell you about the miracle healing they got, and don't tell you about the perscription they just started... or the new job they got, and leave off the applications that they fill out. Just pray for it, and God will provide. People get tired of hearing the modern day magic stories. Any Christian that doubts me can get at me after considering that God didn't answer is only begotten ***'s prayers in the garden the night before his execution.



So what make you think your prayer will get an answer???????



God gives you the direction, and has already provided the strength and tools to go in that direction, no matter the circumstance... even a flooding of the Earth. After all, whether Noah built the ark or not, the rain was still gonna come.

 

[Nester6]

One of the biggest issues, that even I have with religious folk, is the fact that they try to sell you miracles and magic. This is one reason that I don't attend churches even though I am Christian. This idea that God answers prayers is foolish... GOD DOES NOT ANSWER PRAYERS!!!!!!

God doesn't answer what already has an answer. Many so called Christians are quick to tell you about the miracle healing they got, and don't tell you about the perscription they just started... or the new job they got, and leave off the applications that they fill out. Just pray for it, and God will provide. People get tired of hearing the modern day magic stories. Any Christian that doubts me can get at me after considering that God didn't answer is only begotten ***'s prayers in the garden the night before his execution.



So what make you think your prayer will get an answer???????



God gives you the direction, and has already provided the strength and tools to go in that direction, no matter the circumstance... even a flooding of the Earth. After all, whether Noah built the ark or not, the rain was still gonna come.

If god knows everything, what difference will your prayers make? Isn't thatlike beggging for something that he has already decided? It's all such nonsense.

 

[Nester6]

One of the biggest issues, that even I have with religious folk, is the fact that they try to sell you miracles and magic. This is one reason that I don't attend churches even though I am Christian. This idea that God answers prayers is foolish... GOD DOES NOT ANSWER PRAYERS!!!!!!

God doesn't answer what already has an answer. Many so called Christians are quick to tell you about the miracle healing they got, and don't tell you about the perscription they just started... or the new job they got, and leave off the applications that they fill out. Just pray for it, and God will provide. People get tired of hearing the modern day magic stories. Any Christian that doubts me can get at me after considering that God didn't answer is only begotten ***'s prayers in the garden the night before his execution.



So what make you think your prayer will get an answer???????



God gives you the direction, and has already provided the strength and tools to go in that direction, no matter the circumstance... even a flooding of the Earth. After all, whether Noah built the ark or not, the rain was still gonna come.

Thirsty for god! http://www.sobigboobs.com/ddfbusty/0815roxxx/images/005.jpg

 

[Icewater Jones]

I sincerely hope your right, however it sounds like self delusion to me.

This concept is set up in every walk of life, in that everything and everybody answers to something. There is a distinct order and rank in all of life. You work and answer to a boss... who answers to a boss... and so on. The existence of God is what you should know. Don't focus so much on the human explanations...


...just know God exists, and acknowlege everything that is provided to you. I promise, all things religion become much clearer during that walk, which is your own. Don't let people put added pressure, rules and regulations on it.

 

[Nester6]

This concept is set up in every walk of life, in that everything and everybody answers to something. There is a distinct order and rank in all of life. You work and answer to a boss... who answers to a boss... and so on. The existence of God is what you should know. Don't focus so much on the human explanations...


...just know God exists, and acknowlege everything that is provided to you. I promise, all things religion become much clearer during that walk, which is your own. Don't let people put added pressure, rules and regulations on it.

With that, I do believe there is definite right and wrong, no matter to whom your allegience is directed or non directed . The golden rule is accepted cross cultural and religious ideas.

 

[Icewater Jones]

With that, I do believe there is definite right and wrong, no matter to whom your allegience is directed or non directed . The golden rule is accepted cross cultural and religious ideas.

Correct. This is partly why religion does mean something. It's value is present in its values and ideas.

 

[Atar554]

This concept is set up in every walk of life, in that everything and everybody answers to something. There is a distinct order and rank in all of life. You work and answer to a boss... who answers to a boss... and so on. The existence of God is what you should know. Don't focus so much on the human explanations...


...just know God exists, and acknowlege everything that is provided to you. I promise, all things religion become much clearer during that walk, which is your own. Don't let people put added pressure, rules and regulations on it.

I'm sorry but that argument does nothing but dig a hole in my opinion. It's common for the religious to argue that everything in the world has a source that is intelligent and designed things to be as they are.

The problem is that if everything has a intelligent beginning or like you said "boss" then who is the boss or creator of God?

The response is usually; "God doesn't need a creator and is eternal". Now I'm one who thinks there's usually an exception to every rule, however when I reply with something along the lines of; "Well technically the Universe itself is essentially eternal as matter cannot be created nor destroyed, it merely transfers from one form to another."

That idea is thrown aside as it doesn't fit religious doctrine. It also doesn't even begin to get into the Epicurus questions.

As far as "walk the walk and you'll find the answers". That in my opinion avoid resolving the issues that keep people curious as to what's real or not.

There's a reason why for hundreds of years religious people from many religions encouraged people not to be "Freethinkers" or question what they were taught; they were told it would only lead them to destruction.

That type of mindset makes it difficult to have a conversation and come up with new opinions or insights into the tougher questions. It typically ends up with both parties entrenched and lobbying insults over each others mental fortifications.

I hope this thread doesn't go that route for the long haul.

Correct. This is partly why religion does mean something. It's value is present in its values and ideas.

But if being well mannered and law abiding isn't exclusive to religious doctrines, teachings, myths and rituals. It shouldn't be claimed that it is.

If you're arguing just to acknowledge that this world was made for you. That implies that it was which there's no evidence that I've ever heard of stating that. The only thing I'm aware of is something along these lines:

I'm a man.
I live in this world.
In this world I can take things and make new things.
This makes my life better.
If I create things something surely must have created me.
Then I must make my creators' life better.
Then this world in which I was created was created for me.

The dilemma is virtually any creature could think the same thing.

". . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in’an interesting hole I find myself in’fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for."

 

[Icewater Jones]

I'm sorry but that argument does nothing but dig a hole in my opinion. It's common for the religious to argue that everything in the world has a source that is intelligent and designed things to be as they are.

The problem is that if everything has a intelligent beginning or like you said "boss" then who is the boss or creator of God?

The response is usually; "God doesn't need a creator and is eternal". Now I'm one who thinks there's usually an exception to every rule, however when I reply with something along the lines of; "Well technically the Universe itself is essentially eternal as matter cannot be created nor destroyed, it merely transfers from one form to another."

That idea is thrown aside as it doesn't fit religious doctrine. It also doesn't even begin to get into the Epicurus questions.

As far as "walk the walk and you'll find the answers". That in my opinion avoid resolving the issues that keep people curious as to what's real or not.

There's a reason why for hundreds of years religious people from many religions encouraged people not to be "Freethinkers" or question what they were taught; they were told it would only lead them to destruction.

That type of mindset makes it difficult to have a conversation and come up with new opinions or insights into the tougher questions. It typically ends up with both parties entrenched and lobbying insults over each others mental fortifications.

I hope this thread doesn't go that route for the long haul.




But if being well mannered and law abiding isn't exclusive to religious doctrines, teachings, myths and rituals. It shouldn't be claimed that it is.

Well, Epicurus questions are just that, questions. Questions that humans require detailed answers for. What if somethings are just as simple as 'In the beginning, God greated the Heavens and the Earth'? Just because the answer isn't complicated, doesn't mean it isn't possible.

"Well technically the Universe itself is essentially eternal as matter cannot be created nor destroyed, it merely transfers from one form to another."

'technically' and 'essentially' convey theoretical values, thus are not fact. This idea has never been proven, so it is on the same footing as religion ideally, as thought by atheists.

There's a reason why for hundreds of years religious people from many religions encouraged people not to be "Freethinkers" or question what they were taught; they were told it would only lead them to destruction.

There it is, religious 'people'... and what do we know about people? They have they're own agendas and fears. Though I am Christian, I have been labled a free-thinker in that community, but the beauty of faith based concepts is that you can be that. I don't put a lot of stock in what people put out there as it pertains to my belief.

That type of mindset makes it difficult to have a conversation and come up with new opinions or insights into the tougher questions. It typically ends up with both parties entrenched and lobbying insults over each others mental fortifications.

Exactly. I'm in to hearing new opinions and insights from everyone because I know that when it comes to faith and science, there are gonna be clashes. It really comes down to how you take on tough questions. Some think they require tough answers, while folks like me think simple ones are it.

But if being well mannered and law abiding isn't exclusive to religious doctrines, teachings, myths and rituals. It shouldn't be claimed that it is.

But why do they have to be exclusive to have been originated from something? These ideas don't need to be exclusive to religion if they started there. I certainly didn't say they were.

 

[Icewater Jones]

The dilemma is virtually any creature could think the same thing.

Not any or every creature is human. Not any and every creature was created with that capability.

 

[Atar554]

Well, Epicurus questions are just that, questions. Questions that humans require detailed answers for. What if somethings are just as simple as 'In the beginning, God greated the Heavens and the Earth'? Just because the answer isn't complicated, doesn't mean it isn't possible.

It's actually incredibly complicated. It just is easily expressed. If the Universe has a beginning and God made it where does God come from? If he has no creator then why do we? Why does a perfect God create anything when he is already perfect?

Something that is perfect wouldn't create because it has everything. If he created us to worship him he is lacking the joys of being worshiped therefore he is imperfect.

Let's ask a more concrete question. How old is the Earth? If you're going by the Bible it estimates 10k years or so. Science says billions. Obviously there's a problem here, one of those is wrong. One is testable and can be challenged for as long as it's used (challenged and reconfirmed when it's found true again) and the other has to just be accepted without a second glance.

In essence the answer that God is just there raises more questions than it answers...unless you just ignore it completely. If we did that we'd still be in the Dark Ages. Also why should we not question things when we have the "God given" ability to do so?

'technically' and 'essentially' convey theoretical values, thus are not fact. This idea has never been proven, so it is on the same footing as religion ideally, as thought by atheists.

Theories are based around observable and repeatable instances found in nature. The only reason theories are left open ended is for the sake of new information that will further expand the view we already have of any particular subject. It doesn't leave the door open for it be refuted and then supplanted with an explanation that is personal opinion.

In this sense Gravity itself is "theoretical" yet we have a firm grasp on what is basically is don't we? No one argues that Gravity doesn't exist because it's a "theory".

Why isn't Creationism aka Intelligent Design taught in schools? Because it's goal was to get rid of Evolution not to explain the things we see happening before our eyes.

There it is, religious 'people'... and what do we know about people? They have they're own agendas and fears. Though I am Christian, I have been labled a free-thinker in that community, but the beauty of faith based concepts is that you can be that. I don't put a lot of stock in what people put out there as it pertains to my belief.

That's good I'm glad you're open minded. Although I wouldn't consider you a Freethinker but perhaps more of a Deist. In my references to "religious people" I had people in mind that were more true to the doctrine and more literal in their studies. Those people are still the mainstream of the religious base. They differ in opinions from one sect to the next but they all interpret largely the same texts and circumvent outside influence to a large degree.

Exactly. I'm in to hearing new opinions and insights from everyone because I know that when it comes to faith and science, there are gonna be clashes. It really comes down to how you take on tough questions. Some think they require tough answers, while folks like me think simple ones are it.

I agree but I see it more as in: Tough often equal's "hard to swallow". Occam's razor imo is key to keeping the debate sensible

But why do they have to be exclusive to have been originated from something? These ideas don't need to be exclusive to religion if they started there. I certainly didn't say they were.

The same reason you'd never see an Atheist person elected President...openly Atheist that is.

People are ingrained with the idea that religious faith keeps people inline and if they lack that they are wild cards and in a sense dangerous. Despite any evidence proving that.

Not any or every creature is human. Not any and every creature was created with that capability.

It's assumed that human conciousness is far and beyond that of any other species. There's a lot of evidence that other ******* are quite advanced. See:

Monkeys
lemurs
Apes
Whales
Dolphins
Birds - Not just parrots mimicking the human voice but also being able to distinguish shapes, color, and how many there is of something. Also Raven's making tools even more advanced than chimps and solving complex puzzles.

We've seen examples of prostitution, ****** and mourning the loss of a ***** in gorillas as well as making tools and taking medicine of sorts.

It's assumed only humans can do human things because we've often times never studied creatures with reflection to ourselves...for instance the scientist that named the structures of a birds brain used words that implied that they were stupid. Based solely on the idea that small brains = lower intelligence. It turns out that's not at all the case.

If one doesn't state from the very beginning that humanity is the center of the important things in life and is lord of it all. It's very hard to look at nature and come to that conclusion. Our successes over other species in the survival game is not proof that what we do is any better or different than what they do.

Because if we're measuring global dominance as a sign of superiority in a spiritual sense. Then the fact there's more bacteria in your guts than people on the planet proves they are the champs. Followed by perhaps insects.

 

[Icewater Jones]

You see this is where we differ. Most everything atheist is based on tangible, logical, human discovery. Isolated puzzle pieces that may or may not get you closer to the answers you seek, most of which are logical and reasonable based on scientific uncoverings. However human senses and logic are known to be flawed. What seems tangible and sensible are only that on a human scale, which is limited.

I, on the other hand, believe that any road laid by science, will only find God standing at the end of it. The ingrained idea that keeps people in line that you speak of is a limitless concept. If you took all religion away, and wiped everyones memories, people will still find God in some form or capacity; a source greater than their own existence, and a sense of a higher power.

BTW: Human consciousness is far beyond any other species. Humans can go places and do things any other ****** can do, whereas no other ****** has that capability. The focus on human-like qualities in *******, as observed by humans, keep people from the bigger picture, IMO. Why is it honestly that hard to accept that all that you see, touch, smell, hear, and taste are for us to keep, study, use, learn from, and enjoy? Is that answer just not detailed and difficult enough? I think thats part of the problem, nothing is ever enough for us, so we go down road to find answers, and never get complete ones. Some of this stuff have been stuck in theory mode for 1000's of years. Your response is loaded with:

technically
essentially
evidence
examples

but very few things are proven or concrete, and those that are don't refute God's existence. In fact, they keep that door open.

 

[smoknn]

Jesus Christ. The only thing more annoying than people who push their religion onto others is people who, for no reason, rage out against religion just to start an argument.

my thought as well.....lots of stuff to fuss about why dont we leave god out of it...just because we can:wave:

 

[Atar554]

You see this is where we differ. Most everything atheist is based on tangible, logical, human discovery. Isolated puzzle pieces that may or may not get you closer to the answers you seek, most of which are logical and reasonable based on scientific uncoverings. However human senses and logic are known to be flawed. What seems tangible and sensible are only that on a human scale, which is limited.

That's arguing for mysticism.

Also if you argue to the fact that human minds and perceptions are faulty at best; that too diminishes any argument conceived by the brain...that being one of a spiritual realm as well. How can you tell the spiritual from a delusional faulty brain?

I, on the other hand, believe that any road laid by science, will only find God standing at the end of it. The ingrained idea that keeps people in line that you speak of is a limitless concept. If you took all religion away, and wiped everyones memories, people will still find God in some form or capacity; a source greater than their own existence, and a sense of a higher power.

That's pure hearsay and your opinion. People who aren't indoctrinated at birth or ********* with say a Christian way of life don't grow up as Christians. Now one could imagine new gods and religions would be "invented" but that's the entire problem. Man made religion.

BTW: Human consciousness is far beyond any other species. Humans can go places and do things any other ****** can do, whereas no other ****** has that capability. The focus on human-like qualities in *******, as observed by humans, keep people from the bigger picture, IMO. Why is it honestly that hard to accept that all that you see, touch, smell, hear, and taste are for us to keep, study, use, learn from, and enjoy? Is that answer just not detailed and difficult enough? I think thats part of the problem, nothing is ever enough for us, so we go down road to find answers, and never get complete ones. Some of this stuff have been stuck in theory mode for 1000's of years. Your response is loaded with:


technically
essentially
evidence
examples

Again a Theory is a grouping of facts that detail actual occurances in nature. The only reason it's not considered 100% is because we don't want to box ourselves into a corner like religion does saying "This is how it is, and it never will change...ever".

It's also not about "being enough" it's about being as accurate as possible. That's where you're different from a Freethinker. You'll eventually find a solution that suits you in some way and stick with it. A more scientific method assumes we haven't uncovered every truth and seeks out more and more information to increase the total amount of knowledge we have.

Humans cannot do most of the things ******* can but that's besides the point.

1. The fact that other things are just as alive as humans isn't any less important because they aren't upright bipeds.
2. The things I listed are keystones to what we call culture. If ******* can possess those as well...what do you think that means compared to the Bible's teachings that ******* are beneath us and have no souls?

In reality, we're actually smaller than dust particles when compared to our galaxy's size. Our galaxy is smaller than a dust speck when compared to the Universe. The things humans do in the grand scheme of things are no different than the lowly bacteria floating in the air.

To assume there is a cosmic ****** that gives a damn about when people have anal sex is imo presumptuous.

but very few things are proven or concrete, and those that are don't refute God's existence. In fact, they keep that door open.

Even though you're saying very few things are concrete or proven, where does that leave everyone's religion? My guess is that you'll argue that it's provable on the individual level.

But should we be leaving a door open for any explanation that happens along then? And completely accept it without challenge? I think that method would lead to nonsense.

If you say no and that we should challenge it, what do you contrast it with in order to secure the truth?

Do you only challenge a belief in Jesus with a belief in Buddha? or Zeus?

Or is it just as natural to compare a belief in Jesus with no belief at all?

 

[smoknn]

[QUOTE=Icewater Jones;God didn't answer is only begotten ***'s prayers in the garden the night before his execution.

would you stop someone from sending your *** home???what looks like the end for you, to God he was going to have his *** by his side SOON!...did you know a lot of people set out to prove god and religion was a fake..and wound up at the foot of the cross. i may not be living the life i should..i may not be a saint..but it doesnt make a difference how i feel about god in my heart i would never..ever..diss god i dont know how old you are ***..but everyday you get older..you can see gods plan do just like a old instant cam..it just gets clearer and clearer..they say the world will end in 2012 lol,,i think man will have it destroyed if it last that long...God said he was going to do it...you do the math...(im not in this argument but i would have said this or busted wide open just think about it)

 

[smoknn]

Me thinks he got turned down by a religious girl.

me thinks he has a lot of growing and wisdom coming

 

[Icewater Jones]

Exactly as I said, the prayer was not answered because the answer already existed. The answers to all of these things exists already.

 

[Icewater Jones]

That's arguing for mysticism.

Also if you argue to the fact that human minds and perceptions are faulty at best; that too diminishes any argument conceived by the brain...that being one of a spiritual realm as well. How can you tell the spiritual from a delusional faulty brain?



That's pure hearsay and your opinion. People who aren't indoctrinated at birth or ********* with say a Christian way of life don't grow up as Christians. Now one could imagine new gods and religions would be "invented" but that's the entire problem. Man made religion.



Again a Theory is a grouping of facts that detail actual occurances in nature. The only reason it's not considered 100% is because we don't want to box ourselves into a corner like religion does saying "This is how it is, and it never will change...ever".

It's also not about "being enough" it's about being as accurate as possible. That's where you're different from a Freethinker. You'll eventually find a solution that suits you in some way and stick with it. A more scientific method assumes we haven't uncovered every truth and seeks out more and more information to increase the total amount of knowledge we have.

Humans cannot do most of the things ******* can but that's besides the point.

1. The fact that other things are just as alive as humans isn't any less important because they aren't upright bipeds.
2. The things I listed are keystones to what we call culture. If ******* can possess those as well...what do you think that means compared to the Bible's teachings that ******* are beneath us and have no souls?

In reality, we're actually smaller than dust particles when compared to our galaxy's size. Our galaxy is smaller than a dust speck when compared to the Universe. The things humans do in the grand scheme of things are no different than the lowly bacteria floating in the air.

To assume there is a cosmic ****** that gives a damn about when people have anal sex is imo presumptuous.



Even though you're saying very few things are concrete or proven, where does that leave everyone's religion? My guess is that you'll argue that it's provable on the individual level.

But should we be leaving a door open for any explanation that happens along then? And completely accept it without challenge? I think that method would lead to nonsense.

If you say no and that we should challenge it, what do you contrast it with in order to secure the truth?

Do you only challenge a belief in Jesus with a belief in Buddha? or Zeus?

Or is it just as natural to compare a belief in Jesus with no belief at all?

So where does your faith lay? Are you just beliving in all things that can be measured, seen, are grasped? Do you not have belief in anything beyond human limitations?

My faith is that all things are proven already, through God, who created it all. My challenges are discovering the means and ends of what is already here and accurate. I have no need to challenge God, just a want to appreciate what God has provided and to study and understand them if I so choose. My belief is in God. Just because I believe through faith, doesn't mean I don't have a desire to go to the limits set here in this universe, but I don't let those set limits define my belief.