Egypt warns giving women some rights could destroy society

[Mayhem]

Mayhem are an isolationist. The international community cannot let genocide happen in the modern world. They've the military and financial muscle to stop genocides from countries like Rwanda, Sudan, and Cambodia.

Well, guilty. I'm not a total isolationist, but I lean in that direction.

If I'm wrong tell me, but aren't you the one that's a former officer in one of the services? You mention Cambodia, so I assume you mean the Khmer Rouge thing. Please explain to the class the logistical realities of taking on Cambodia, especially considering that we had just gotten punted out of Vietnam. And while you're at it, explain how you were going to get the public to back you in so doing.

Same thing with Rwanda. Where exactly were we going to base ourselves out of? And what exit strategy would we have had.

The Sudan, I agree with you BTW. I would have liked to see engagement there. And if you had mentioned Bosnia, I probably would have let you slide. I will spend my life being ashamed that our response there was so weak-assed and chickenshit.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

I think civil wars should be dealt with internally. I've never believed in "humanitarian" wars and wherever there has been external intervention or support for one side rather than the other there has never been stability afterwards. It's just like hiding the dust under the carpet: it's still there and before or after you'll have to deal with it again.

 

[Mayhem]

I think civil wars should be dealt with internally. I've never believed in "humanitarian" wars and wherever there has been external intervention or support for one side rather than the other there has never been stability afterwards. It's just like hiding the dust under the carpet: it's still there and before or after you'll have to deal with it again.

Rep for making extremely valid points. Well done.

 

[Mr. Hyde]

lol...destroy society? Most of those muslim countries, the society is already destroyed. And largely because of things like harsh laws that restrict women's rights.

Why don't the fucking women stand up for themselves? I don't get this shit.

 

[Mayhem]

lol...destroy society? Most of those muslim countries, the society is already destroyed. And largely because of things like harsh laws that restrict women's rights.

Why don't the fucking women stand up for themselves? I don't get this shit.

Oh c'mon, be fair. How long did it take the people of Europe to stand up to centuries of Kings, Dukes, Popes, Viceroys, Cardinals, Earls, Bishops, etc? And they lived under the same basic restrictions that the women of the Muslim world live under today.

And how long did the blacks of South Africa live under apartheid? And they had a huge numerical advantage.

 

[bahodeme]

The West has let millions of people get massacred in Rwanda, Sudan, Cambodia, and some others. They did something that make the situation better or worse in the long run, but at least acted during this crisis.

Because there was no vested interest (oil, gold, etc.) in some of the countries mentioned or the reigning party provides this.

 

[JaanaRuutu]

People elected them. I've got a female Muslim friend from Cairo that HATES the entire party, many do! Unfortunately, they won. This is exactly what's going to happen in Syria once Assad falls. All you can really hope for is that the people eventually get educated and stop the bullshit. What scares me is that a lot of this rhetoric sounds very similar to that of the Tea Party. Replace "Muslim Brotherhood" with "Todd Akin" and you're not too far off.

 

[bahodeme]

Same thing with Rwanda. Where exactly were we going to base ourselves out of? And what exit strategy would we have had.
.

There was a U.N. Peacekeeping Force already in the country and the commander informed th U.N. of what he thought was going to happen and was told that they were there just to observe and keep them informed. He later said that he felt that the group he had could have stopped them. But the problem was since the troops were multinational, he coould not use his authority the same as if they were from his country. But because of what transpired, he resigned from the military. If I remember correctly he with the Danish military. So there was no need to necessarily base ourselves, just provide some logisticcal & tactical backing. This is why the "rogue" countries have little or no respct for the U.N.

Something similar happened in I believe Congo where the U.N. troops were 1/2 mile from a village where the people were killed and raped, including a 6 year old boy. One of the hardest things, for me, would have been to know that I could have done something, had been told not to, and didn't.

 

[bobjustbob]

Sabrina Deep is right. After WW2 we put the Shah in and he wanted to modernize the country. Give more rights to women and stuff like that. There was an opposition by the clerics and rather than deal with it, the Shah started taking them as political prisoners. Priests being put into jails doesn't sit well in any society. The people sided with their religion rather than their government. Enter a cleric Ayatollah Khomeini as the savior for the people and here is your Shariah law. That's what the Iranian people wanted and so they have gotten it. No different in Egypt. Won't be any different once Syria settles down either.

 

[288gto]

You know, moderate Muslims really need to organize. Having assholes like this as their spokespeople and face to the rest of the world... not really doing them any favors.

yea, right. same as the dutch did in Bosnia, helped the massacre of Srebrenica and helping Serbia entering EU. Jesus is satisfied, 8000 muslims less. the pope and the crusaders mission accomplished!

right, and all the NATO bombs thrown ,,by mistake,, into civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[spacearrow99]

Rep for making extremely valid points. Well done.

South Korea and the states that came from Yugoslavia after western interventions.

 

[288gto]

lol...destroy society? Most of those muslim countries, the society is already destroyed. And largely because of things like harsh laws that restrict women's rights.

Why don't the fucking women stand up for themselves? I don't get this shit.

wow, you're top records for stereotyping. they might be opressed but no one would stand against her brother, father, etc. it's matter of respect.
agree with sabrina, a lot muslim countries have ignorant idiotic regimes supported by western countries. so why talking against something you support?

 

[288gto]

South Korea and the states that came from Yugoslavia after western (after WW2 when they started going to school) interventions.

simply, you guys don't much about muslims anyways, the major problem of islam is being ruled by ignorants.

 

[D-rock]

lWhy don't the fucking women stand up for themselves? I don't get this shit.

Pain hurts and death is permanent. It's easy to say things like that when one gets too sit back and not be the one to face the consequences of standing up for oneself.

Would I want to die and fight instead of living under tyranny and having my rights and the rights of others squashed. Yeah, probably. Or at least I hope I would be strong enough to make that decision. However, I'm not going to sit back and think it's some easy thing for people to do. Things tend to not end well for people that go that route, especially the first ones to stand up for themselves.

 

[288gto]

so what would u think it'll be a good solution for this then? women are human beings and they gotta have the rights. i just hate the 2 sided bitchy politics west is doing on these countries

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

so what would u think it'll be a good solution for this then? women are human beings and they gotta have the rights. i just hate the 2 sided bitchy politics west is doing on these countries

Got to work it out for themselves change is rarely a peaceful bloodless thing but religion is never a valid reason to oppress another human being.

 

[Kingfisher]

Again I state: Muslims must really hate women. No wonder the men crawl into caved and ass slam each other.

 

[Mayhem]

Because there was no vested interest (oil, gold, etc.) in some of the countries mentioned or the reigning party provides this.

Actually Sudan has quite a bit of oil and Rwanda has gold, coltan and other mining resources.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

Again I state: Muslims must really hate women. No wonder the men crawl into caved and ass slam each other.

I don't think they "hate" women, they don't acknowledge the equal humanity of women. That is rather clear in Islam.

 

[spacearrow99]

Well, guilty. I'm not a total isolationist, but I lean in that direction.

If I'm wrong tell me, but aren't you the one that's a former officer in one of the services? You mention Cambodia, so I assume you mean the Khmer Rouge thing. Please explain to the class the logistical realities of taking on Cambodia, especially considering that we had just gotten punted out of Vietnam. And while you're at it, explain how you were going to get the public to back you in so doing.

Same thing with Rwanda. Where exactly were we going to base ourselves out of? And what exit strategy would we have had.

The Sudan, I agree with you BTW. I would have liked to see engagement there. And if you had mentioned Bosnia, I probably would have let you slide. I will spend my life being ashamed that our response there was so weak-assed and chickenshit.

The Nixon administration's intervention did not go far enough. A sustained full scale intervention in Cambodia in the early 1970s; would cripple the Khmer Rouge and North Vietnamese forces operating in Cambodia. The U. S. did not introduce American ground forces in the conflict; the U. S. lowly cut aid to Lon Nol government in 1975. The Khmer Rouge took power in Cambodia. No one knew at that time Khmer Rouge would become one of the most ruthless organiztions in human history. Governments should not engage in half-assed foreign conflict interventions.

The West had to obtain a U. N resolution for a Rwandan operation or pay off a base country. The pentagon has had a doctrine of fighting to major wars concurrently for decades. A two state policy was the only solution in Rwanda.

Sudanese government committed genocide on its own people: I highly doubt engagement would work with Sudan.