Does America HAVE to be a Force for Good (and Why)?

[Mayhem]

so basically you are arguing that America should be able to bomb anyone it wants and nobody is allowed to complain about it



yes?

Only if you want to be a complete simpleton about it. Actually, you would have to have a stunning, child-like stupidity to infer that from anything I have ever posted, let alone on this thread. Swing and a miss.

 

[emceeemcee]

In effect you said that America should be unrestrained by any kind of moral or legal principles outside it's own borders so my question is quite reasonable.



Is that what you believe? That America should be able to bomb any country it wants for any reason it wants?

 

[Mayhem]

so basically you are arguing

In effect you said

If you want to know what I am saying, read what I wrote. I am not going to have words put in my mouth or selectively interpreted by a reactionary, chicken-shit fool like yourself. My previous post on this thread are what I'm trying to say, not the inane drivel that you are trying to attach to them.

 

[emceeemcee]

sounds like a yes then


you are wrong that:


a) America has ever been anyone's 'babysitter'

b) Anyone wants you to be their's. Most people just want you stick to your neck of the woods

c) You have no obligations to other people in the world. You have the obligation not to attack them and not to interfere in their political systems and their economies. Every country has this obligation, most notably under an agreement they signed up to when they became UN members

 

[Mayhem]

Whatever you say peewee.

 

[emceeemcee]

why start a thread asking for people's opinions if you are only going to behave like a petulant child?

 

[Mayhem]

Don't put words in my mouth, don't try to simplify the argument to fit your paper thin views. It's become apparent that you harbor some petty animus for America and you are determined to whine about it every chance you get. If you have a point to make, make it. But, do not presume to tell me what I'm basically arguing, or what I'm (in effect) saying. No one else on this thread is having trouble coming up with their own views. If you can't keep up,

why start a thread asking for people's opinions if you are only going to behave like a petulant child?

You are not trying to give an opinion. You are trying to distort mine.

 

[emceeemcee]

Don't put words in my mouth, don't try to simplify the argument to fit your paper thin views. It's become apparent that you harbor some petty animus for America and you are determined to whine about it every chance you get.

Only a depraved person would consider millions of deaths 'petty animus'.

I usually provide links for everything when I talk about this issue so you're on thin ice trying to pass it off as mere opinion.

If you have a point to make, make it.

I've already made it. Many times. The US has killed millions of people in it's quest to control the world. I don't think that's OK for other countries to do that.


According to you and many other Americans this is just 'whining' or 'anti-Americanism'. You haven't challenged it on the grounds of historical accuracy.

But, do not presume to tell me what I'm basically arguing, or what I'm (in effect) saying.

I made a logical extension of your comments. If you don't think the American government and it's military has any obligation to be decent to people outside it's own borders then then why would you have any moral objection to it killing some people in some far away land for some trivial reason?

 

[Mayhem]

Again, you just go off on your own little tangents, don't you?

If you don't think the American government and it's military has any obligation to be decent to people outside it's own borders

Please point out when the hell I ever said that. And please point out where that is said in the thread title.

Only a depraved person would consider millions of deaths 'petty animus'.

I usually provide links for everything when I talk about this issue so you're on thin ice trying to pass it off as mere opinion.

I honestly don't recall you being any great source of links. But here's your chance to provide them. Please explain the "millions of deaths" thing and make sure to include your links.

I've already made it. Many times. The US has killed millions of people in it's quest to control the world. I don't think that's OK for other countries to do that.

OK, link-boy. Here's your chance to shine. "millions of people in it's quest to control the world" is going to need explaining. ALL of it.

If there was any truth to your claim, Saudi Arabia wouldn't be run by Arabians. Mexico wouldn't be run by Mexicans. Canada sure as hell wouldn't be run by Canadians (and they'd probably be better off). And European colonies in Africa and Asia would still be European colonies. The western world lost trillions when it handed the reigns back to the natives in a whole slew of these countries.

So please, explain this grandiose plan America has "to take over the world." (Que ominous yet dramatic music)

According to you and many other Americans this is just 'whining' or 'anti-Americanism'. You haven't challenged it on the grounds of historical accuracy.

You're right, I haven't. I've challenged it on the grounds of the petulance you accuse me of.

The historical accuracy of the fact is that there has not been one day on this planet when foreign relations hasn't been a nightmare. Hundreds of years before Ameica was first settled, people were dying by the thousands in one war after another. Colonialization, imperialism, domination, commercial interests and power grabbing are human traits, not American ones. Australia has it's own fine history of this in the way it deliberately tried to annihilate its Aborigines. How about an ongoing weep-fest for them?

The original question, seeing as how you seem to have missed it, while clicking on this thread, does America HAVE to be a force for good? And so far, you're the only one who hasn't answered.

 

[ban-one]

Anybody else thinking of the Allstate 'Mayhem' commercials right now, and someone needing better protection from Mayhem. Like him.

 

[Trident1]

The US has killed millions of people in it's quest to control the world.

:rofl2::funnyshit:

 

[Shifty]

...

 

[dct2286]

if we do not like you an the U.N. does like you be ready to get you ass hand it to you

 

[Mayhem]

Anybody else thinking of the Allstate 'Mayhem' commercials right now, and someone needing better protection from Mayhem. Like him.

Thanx..........I think? :dunno:

 

[ban-one]

Thanx..........I think? :dunno:

Yeah, it was meant to be a complement for taking emceeemcee to task.

 

[pool_hustler]

the meeting and decision was WWI and II when we had to come to the rescue, and they pretty much invited themselves because an upstart country not even 200 years old at the time did and could do more than countries that had been around for alot longer could and did.

Really?
We did more to defeat Hitler than the Soviets?
Please explain.

We didn't even set foot on the European continent until Sept '43, 8 months after Stalingrad. By 9/43 the Russians were gaining the upper hand over the Germans on all fronts except at Leningrad, where the siege was weakening but would last another four months.
The number of Russian casualties and the number of German dead at the hands of the Russians eclipses our comparative numbers by a light year.
If we'd never set foot in Europe Russia would have beaten Hitler all by itself. It would have taken longer but it would have happened.

 

[LukeEl]

We should just be a force of "meh" you know doing things half assed. But have to stop half way through it, because something cool is on tv.

 

[Mayhem]

Really?
We did more to defeat Hitler than the Soviets?
Please explain.

We didn't even set foot on the European continent until Sept '43, 8 months after Stalingrad. By 9/43 the Russians were gaining the upper hand over the Germans on all fronts except at Leningrad, where the siege was weakening but would last another four months.
The number of Russian casualties and the number of German dead at the hands of the Russians eclipses our comparative numbers by a light year.
If we'd never set foot in Europe Russia would have beaten Hitler all by itself. It would have taken longer but it would have happened.

I suggest you acquaint yourself with the Lend-Lease Act. Russia survived by a hair because they had us giving massive material support.

America coming into the European side of WWII made a 2 front war. Without us drawing off the massive amount of military resources from the Russian Front, Russia would have still been fighting a decade later, easy.

The numbers of Russian/German casualties was so high, in part, because neither side was particularly good at fighting war. Both sides basically threw their own men away through shitty, juggernaut tactics. "Enemy at the Gates" treated this very accurately. Don't blame us for doing a better job at keeping our forces alive.

If we'd never set foot in Europe, maybe Russia would have won, maybe not. How is either scenario a good thing? Seriously, you would have the Soviet Union capturing all of Europe, right to the English Channel? How is this a good thing?

 

[saschaxx]

So, USA , better take a broom + clean right in front of your own house, azzholes, ...and exactly this is what we German + European azzholes should also do.

 

[ban-one]

I suggest you acquaint yourself with the Lend-Lease Act. Russia survived by a hair because they had us giving massive material support.

America coming into the European side of WWII made a 2 front war. Without us drawing off the massive amount of military resources from the Russian Front, Russia would have still been fighting a decade later, easy.

The numbers of Russian/German casualties was so high, in part, because neither side was particularly good at fighting war. Both sides basically threw their own men away through shitty, juggernaut tactics. "Enemy at the Gates" treated this very accurately. Don't blame us for doing a better job at keeping our forces alive.

If we'd never set foot in Europe, maybe Russia would have won, maybe not. How is either scenario a good thing? Seriously, you would have the Soviet Union capturing all of Europe, right to the English Channel? How is this a good thing?

Well put Mayhem. I would also add that the weather had alot to do with the Russians pushing back the Germans. Just like it did with Napoleon. History tells you it's a bad idea to take on the Russians in winter.