Are you for or against same sex marriage?

[superfly2]

SF2, what exactly is the norm these days???

I can't say what the societal norm is. Even if I could, it would change again tomorrow, thus making my ascertation wrong. I basically mean, it is the norm for a child to be created through a man and a woman because any other arrangement is 99.9% unlikely (I once read about a guy getting pregnant and because I don't know all the details I won't say 100%). So, I guess one small part would relate to this fact.

I know that there are a lot of problems with hetero marriages. I'm not denying this. Homosexual marriages most probably suffer from many of the same problems as they are human conditions. But any problems that are not experiened in a homosexual marriage which are in a hetero marriage, will probably be replaced by problems that are exclusive to homosexual marriages. On top of that add on the fundamental fact that two men or two women cannot produce a child and you have the "icing on the cake" which could either lead to deviant behavior which otherwise would not have been present in the child, or may amplify any pre-existing deviant behaviors that could have been brought on by any number of factors relative to marriage problems.

I don't know anything for sure about homosexual lifestyles and also don't want to generalize. But I do want to say, relating to this, that children need stability in order to grow to their fullest extent cognitively and emotionally. *If* the majority of homosexual lifestyles do not provide stability, then that is another reason why I am against bringing a child into the marriage. I'm merely laying this thought on the table in case someone else wants to pick up on it. I can't speak with certainty, I don't feel like gathering facts and building a case, nor do I want to look evil. I just want to give my opinion.

If in ten years, it's generally known and accepted that gay couples make equal or superior parents to straight couples, I will not have a problem with children being raised in a gay household. But until it's proven, I cannot get past the fundamental flaw in the arrangement, and therefore think it is improper.

 

[jas32]

I am for. I live in the U.S. and our freedom that we hail so much closes more each day. One day I hope we look in the mirror instead of looking at other people`s problems. Plus I agree with rocket. Look at all the marriages that have at least one divorcee lol.

 

[LetoII]

I'm most certainly for it.
My uncle is homosexual - fully and wholeheartedly accepted by everyone in our family - and i'm very glad that i had the luck to grow up without the usual and most pathetic prejudices concerning homosexuality.
what i truly wish for is that someone/something would finally shut the fucking vatikan up for good. those brainless morons with their archaic and stagnated world outlook, trying to make us believe that god himself is against homosexual relationships. whoever buys that kind of shit deserves to be pitied.

 

[9inch]

I think I'm mostly against the entire marriage idea :o
today it's too much like a business, and marry in church is not my cup of tea.
staying together without marry is easier in my opinion, and if your want to break your relationship you don't need to engage a lawyer a spend a lot of money for that...

so it's unecessary to speak with me of an homosexual mariage

just my :2 cents:

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Totally against it. And it sickens me our stupid fucking tax dollar wasting lying liberal government teamed up with those (in their own words) "evil" NDP and Bloc parties to pass this.

Don't get me wrong, if you're a dude, and you want to suck another dude's cock, that's your malfunction. Just don't change what the definition of marriage is.

Honestly, if a man can now marry a man, or a woman can now marry a woman, why can't I marry two women? In some places that's illegal, and called poligamy(sp). But if it's love, like what these chemically imbalanced people think they have with someone of the same sex, why can't three people then become married?

 

[LetoII]

if you're a dude, and you want to suck another dude's cock, that's your malfunction.

. But if it's love, like what these chemically imbalanced people think they have with someone of the same sex,

brilliant, dude ! NO SHIT ! straight to the point, insulting as always, and with no argumentative value whatsoever. i won't even waste my time and energy to furtherly comment this BS post, D.S. !

 

[Peter Gazinya]

if we start letting our government tell us who we can and can't marry then that leads to a whole host of problems. If governments decide that same sex marriages are bad (no matter what the religous beliefs are) then what's to stop them from going after interracial relationships (which would apply to me) and relationships between adults of different ages. As for polygamy. I'm not in favor of polygamy because marriage should between two people. What do you need with more than one wife? That's like having more than one girlfriend. No thanks. One's enough.

That's a nice stock argument started decades ago by the "If - Then" camp. The only problem is it's irrelevant because our government ALREADY HAS DECIDED, about 350 years ago, who you can and can't marry but discrimination laws are what's to stop them from going after interracial marriages. State laws already dictate how old you must be to marry but I know of no law imposing a maximum age DIFFERENCE between two people of legal marrying age. I feel that the "If - then" argument is kind of a cop out because it's hard to cite logical reasons to redefine what a marriage is. For most people marriage is the foundation of a family and by family we mean parents and children. And by children we mean the result of a consumation between man and women, sperm fertilizing egg, embryo growing to human baby. Alot of people wishing to see well adjusted children grow up in this country are very against tampering with any of that definition.

"What business of mine is it if a man wants to marry another man?" Well, it's big business of yours when anyone marries anyone else. When people get marrried, their status in the eyes of public policy immediately changes. They are now subject to different tax laws, affirmative action laws, benefits plans at their job, immigration laws, etc. Everyone is affected by it. Allowing anyone to marry anyone will guarantee a change in the taxation/public revenue equation immediately thereby adversely affecting everyone else. That's how it's your business.

I voted against gay marriage but not for the reasons stated above (that was just to spur discussion). My true reason is that I'm against any form of marriage at all. Gay men generally have a very free lifestyle, why would they want to fuck that up?

 

[Jacksson_77]

If two people love each other then fine. Love and let love. Who am I to say who should be together and who should not?
However, I am only in favor if they are prohibited from having/raising children. My concerns lie primarily in the children and the deviant behavior that *may* arise as a result of being raised in a homosexual marriage. Nothing has been proven or disproven yet (I don't think) about the effects on children, but I just think that any couple that strays from the norm has a likelihood of negatively affecting the child. Now a kid doesn't know any better, but he/she will probably face scrutiny by other children. In highschool, when the adolescent is developing his/her own sexual orientation (susceptible to objection, I know) they may feel even more stress and confusion in an already stressful time in their life.
It's possible that gay marriage (with kids) will be equally as good as a hetero marriage as long as both parents are committed and love each other. But my humble opinion is that a homosexual marriage by nature is harder to maintain (which I will not get into) and there is a likelihood that the negative effects will outweigh the benefits.

That's exactly my opinion and there's not a single thing I would add. Marriage of homosexuals - ok, as long as they don't want to raise children.

Btw.: I voted "against", because I think most of the homosexual couples that decide to get married want to raise children sooner or later.

:hatsoff: Jackson

 

[McRocket]

To all those against same sex marriage...

how can you be against something that is none of your business. What's it to you who get's married and who doesn't? Why is it your business? You aren't stopped from marrying any woman you want. Then what is the difference here? The difference is that gays and lesbians are considered freaks by many. And 'normal' people (read ignorant) don't like 'freaks' in their clubs. And this club happens to be called marriage.
Well, you better get used to it - because it is eventually going to be legal everywhere.

And as for the financial costs arguement. Why should married people be the only ones to get married benefits? I have paid plenty of tax dollars - and I think that to only allow a man and a woman coupled to get the economic benefits is wrong. What if two friends live together for their whole lives but never get married. Why should they not get spousal type benefits? They paid their taxes? They should reap the benefits.

I will ask it again. Why is it anyone else's business who another person marries?

I am afraid most of you have alot more evolving/growing up to do; because you ain't there yet - in my opinion. Maybe one day though.

 

[McRocket]

Totally against it. And it sickens me our stupid fucking tax dollar wasting lying liberal government teamed up with those (in their own words) "evil" NDP and Bloc parties to pass this.

It sickens you? I see Leto II's point. But I do have a question. Why does it sicken you?
Simple question.

 

[dirac]

Its just another freedom issue IMO, people should be able to marry who ever the fuck they want. No animals tho, that shits just WRONG! :nono: ukey:

 

[McRocket]

Its just another freedom issue IMO, people should be able to marry who ever the fuck they want. No animals tho, that shits just WRONG! :nono: ukey:

I agree.


Although you know....some of those little dogs are awfully cut......NO, NO...you are right. No animals.

Maybe just a little chuou.....No, your right.

 

[om3ga]

I've no interest in homosexuality, but I voted "for".
If we start banning same-sex marriages, then we are declaring our intent to make homosexuals second-class citizens.
And I wouldn't like to be compared to Nazism and Apartheid.

 

[stark]

I am for gay marriage. Altough it seems unnatural because nature has provided humans with the ability to reproduce only through male-female fertilization, I believe that the main reason why the modern society disaproves same sex marriage is not about nature, but about prejudices and taboo.

I remember from one of my college classes that the ancient greek society was founded on same sex relationships (you just have to read one of the epic poems by Homer like the Iliad, or some of the ancient greek sculptures to see what I mean), and yet what doomed the ancient greeks was not their homosexual tendencies. Thus, I don't think that gay marriage is the end of the world.

I also think that if children grew up in an environment where same sex relationships are not disaproved, they would not develop an instinctive sexual rejection for individuals of the same sex, thus, in that kind of culture they could develop their true sexuality, let it be for a man or a woman (I am not afraid to say that if I wasn't so full of taboos and grown in a society that emphasizes heterosexual relationships I would be in love with some of my male friends, BUT... nevertheless, I am heterosexual and I don't believe I will ever like men in a sexual manner, I just like women too much )

I must also mention that there's a great TV show by Showtime about gay relationships, it's "Queer as Folk", If you haven't seen it yet, you will be shocked the first time you watch an episode (I was), but if you have the guts to watch it you might open your mind to a different point of view.

 

[member2686]

Ignorance Is NOT Bliss

That's precisely the point I've already raised here, om3ga - gay people are currently and have historically been considered and treated as 2nd class citizens, such as black people here in the states. The Civil Rights Act of '64 helped to change that and look where we are now... Black people in the USA have equal rights/protections under the law, but not necessarily equal treatment in society. Bigotry and ignorance will forever be around, but as time passes and people evolve and realize how ass-backwards things have been dealt with, how unjustly people have been treated, etc., things will change.

I could go on and on and on and on replying to many of the posts here and some comments are absolutely ridiculous, but honestly, I don't have the time or energy at the moment. Besides, it's not really my aim to educate people here in this thread. BUT -- people seem to forget that allowing gay people to marry, something henceforth forbidden in almost ALL countries, not only INCREASES economies and tax bases (spending will increase as people buy more property and houses, etc.), but also provides a GREATER stability within that community (particularly in regards to diseases and aimless, promiscuous sex). WHY should monogamy be discouraged and not embraced?!?!?!

Lastly, the whole "lifestyle" thing absolutely slays me. What is a hetero "lifestyle?" Working, taking care of a house, taking a vacation, loving someone, paying bills, having a pet, etc. whatever... Same thing applies to gay people. People have this backwoods, basement view of gay people, like they live in dirty apartments and have sex toys lying all around, a dungeon room for wild sex with dozens of partners, and that all gay people write their names on the stalls in all public restrooms. Good lord. It's just ignorant how people have such wild notions that gay people are inherently unstable, transient, and always looking for another sex partner. It's ridiculous. People are people. You have commitment-minded and slutty-type people in both straight and gay (and of course bisexual) populations...

People fear and create impressions of things with which they're not familiar. That's how we get this "lifestyle" myth about gay and bi people, just as ignorant white people used to say that black people had tails and stuff. It's absurd. Come on people...it's fucking 2005, not 1850!

End of rant. lol Cheers to all!!! :hatsoff:

 

[Sparty4412]

I'm for it who gives a fuck what people do to make them happy well as long as it doesnt hurt someone else and no one is making you marry someone from the same sex if you dont want and its not like you have to be friends with them either

 

[sjs1220]

Great discussion so far... except for Dirty Sanchez... that was a bit overboard.

My take... I could care less. I am not necessarily for or against gay marriage. Honestly its none of my buisness... I was for the ammendment against it, though... Why? There is a bigger issue!

The ammendment wasn't about whether it should be allowed. It was about a topic in which the country is divided. Most issues like this are decided by STATE LAW! In Maryland (I hope that is the right state), a Judge made a ruling that would force all states (even those that voted against recognizing it) to recognize gay marriage. That isn't necesarily a bad thing, but why does this single judge have the ability to rule for the whole country! The amendment would only have banned the federal recogniztion of gay marriage, and thus allowed states to recognize it still.

Thus, the ammendment wasn't about whether gay marriage was right or wrong. This is why the idea of federal civil unions givng most, if not all, of the same rights. Rather, it was about whether a judges ruling should mandate what all states should do and recognize. And like someone pointed out, this affects more than just people being married. This changes tax laws, adoption laws, and divorce laws.

Once again... great discussion!

 

[jdb67]

. But any problems that are not experiened in a homosexual marriage which are in a hetero marriage, will probably be replaced by problems that are exclusive to homosexual marriages.

what kind of problems are Exclusive to Homosexual Relationships/marriages???

which could either lead to deviant behavior which otherwise would not have been present in the child, or may amplify any pre-existing deviant behaviors that could have been brought on by any number of factors relative to marriage problems.

what do you believe is Deviant behavior???

I don't know anything for sure about homosexual lifestyles and also don't want to generalize.

I ask these questions, because you, yourself admit to knowing little if nothing about the Homosexual lifestyle. :glugglug:

 

[member2686]

Dammit, people -- there is not a "homosexual lifestyle!!!!"

Even amidst decent posts, people use terrible terms and ignorantly-formed predispositions of one another -- not to mention terms like "lifestyles."

This topic reminds me more and more how much it would really be good for more and more people to inter-mingle and experience the world. Ignorance is no excuse, and it's certainly not bliss.

DAMN. Come ON, folks!!!! :eek:

 

[superfly2]

Are you being serious jdb67 or are you just trying to make me type lots of letters?

I believe that homosexual relationships have problems that are not found in hetero relationships, and vice versa. To me, this concept seems perfectly reasonable.
I'm not going to do research to answer your question specifically as to what these problems are. But if you believe contrary to this concept, then feel free to do your own research that proves that homosexual relationships and heterosexual relationships are perfectly identical in the nature of the problems that arise, and that there are no exceptions.

An example of deviant behavior is robbing houses. Another example is setting cats on fire. Another example would be pushing old ladies down the stairs. But if you lived in a society where everything is nailed down, cats were viewed as kindling, and old ladies never took the stairs, then maybe this would seem normal to you. It's all about perspective. My personal beliefs in deviant behavior are irrelevant to the point I am trying to make. What is important is how the child develops relative to the expectations and preconcieved notions of what is acceptable and what isn't within the childs community.

And I didn't say that I knew little or nothing, I said that I knew nothing for sure.
Happy now? My brain hurts...