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Anybody else think this is getting out of control?

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He had a gun and kept following the kid after the 9-1-1 dispatcher told him to stop. Why did he follow him?
That's over-simplified.

Zimmerman reported a suspicious person by calling 9-1-1. He was not the only person who called 9-1-1 at that time, and people forget that. There was a rash of home intrusions and other issues since last fall, hence why the neighborhood watch was started.

Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend. He was innocent. But from the standpoint of others, he was scoping out houses. It's textbook neighborhood watch. People also forget that 46 calls by Zimmerman were barely 10% of the calls since last fall. His record on information was the best in the neighborhood, helped stop a prior crime, and trusted by law enforcement as a result.

However, textbook neighborhood watch says do not arm yourself. It's a liability. It's one thing to be armed in your home, even car in Florida. But if you are observing, let alone following someone -- which is not exactly textbook neighborhood watch -- armed, it's generally not a good idea. It's legal in Florida to be armed almost anywhere (not schools, including universities, various state and federal locations), but never recommended for the watch.

Zimmerman gave information as the dispatcher asked him. The media has done a great job of drumming up a hate-crime that wasn't there. As Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman followed him. When Zimmerman informed the dispatcher he was following the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow. He agreed. He agreed to meet an officer.

Trayvon was already talking to his girlfriend, who told him to just run. Zimmerman told the dispatcher to have the officer meet him elsewhere, as the suspicious person would easily leave the neighborhood by the time the officer arrived. That was stupid. But Zimmerman is not law enforcement, and not even that experienced either. Imagine a rookie cop, without the authority, thinking you are doing the right thing, and it's exactly wrong.

Trayvon then decided to turn and yell at Zimmerman, asking him why he was following him. Zimmerman then asked what Travyon was doing there. The rest is murky. But some things are clear. Travyon's girlfriend was on the call longer than she admitted. Several witnesses were confused about who was who because Trayvon towered over Zimmerman's height, and wasn't that much different in weight (Zimmerman is not 250lbs., and Trayvon is not 140lbs.). Several thought Trayvon was the larger adult because of it.

It was Florida. It was night. It was a Florida rain, not a midwest rain. No one knows anything for sure. Witnesses are a real issue.

Most legal experts agree, Zimmerman is guilty of at least manslaughter. He took on the liability when he followed Trayvon. And when the dispatcher advised him, he agreed, then changed his mind. He had several opportunities to avoid the situation, and he did not. As such, he took on the liability. Stand-your-ground doesn't cover you for such, but prosecutors are very hesitant unless they have solid evidence in Florida.

The question is if Zimmerman still fired when he was not under threat. The ballistic evidence may show he was not. In fact, given that he has been charged with 2nd degree murder now, it's very likely they do have the ballistic evidence. If that's the case, it's not because the Sanford Police were sloppy, in fact, it would be the opposite. Both the state and DoJ will very likely come back and show that was not the case, other than a few details here and there that were not racially motivated remotely like the media has inferred.

Zimmerman was freed because he was not charged, and he was not charged because a prosecutor -- at the time -- did not think they had a case, before all of the evidence was reviewed. This is due process in Florida, and many other states. Many of the laws are written to protect due process, and Florida has very strict guidelines on when someone can be charged, gun or not, death or not. Only if someone is a risk to the public or a flight risk do they hold them, or select, other cases.

Understand no one in Florida will bow to political pressure. They chose the prosecutor in this case for that very reason. She is thorough. She will take on cases others will not. She dismissed the grand jury and then came back with 2nd degree murder. She ain't playing. She's moving forward. Maybe Zimmerman will try to plea for manslaughter, and maybe the family will agree to it.

But this was not first degree murder. It was not a hate crime. The media trumped up all sorts of total bullshit, and it's so bad, people still believe it. The facts about Zimmerman, the neighborhood and many aspects of Sanford are completely made up in the media, especially given Sanford's history and demographics that pre-date the central Florida boom and what people think of Orlando. Several Florida papers (You guys have Google News, right? Use it!) have been exposing these differences you won't see in the national media, and many of these are not right-leaning papers either. Even the Miami Herald got after NBC's race baiting, hard, and was caught red-handed on several networks the same day (they knew what they were doing).

Zimmerman fucked up. He knows it. He didn't do it out of race or to "get high." He was just another home owner that others looked to in their neighborhood with a growing crime problem with rampant unemployment and a major increase in crimes. A young man is dead because he was overzealous to "catch a person possibly staking their next crime." It's sad that it took the results of the confrontation, however it went down, for him to realize it. The fact that -- even assuming he was 100% honest -- it came to him shooting someone, and showed it was the wrong thing to do. Had he just listened, no one would have died, or been hurt.

So the question now is, how much liability is he in for? Manslaughter is easy, enough that Zimmerman might agree to it. Most legislators of the law agree. You have most Republicans and NRA members in the state even calling for it. That says something. But murder is far from easy to prove. The fact that Zimmerman had a gun matters little, especially in Florida. The question is if Zimmerman's life was in danger or not.

According to the prosecutor, he was not. And she don't play. We'll see if it ends in a plea, or goes to trial.
 
Many are speculating that there is new evidence.
I seriously doubt there is new evidence, and yes, that's 100% speculation. That's from people who haven't been following the realities of this case. The reality is that most of the facts are not public. In fact, there are 10x as many 100% bullshit "fact" put forth than actual facts. The media just doesn't have much of the information at all.

Understand the Sanford Police only released limited information, enough to show they did some "due diligence" to counter what Jackson and Sharpton were claiming that they did not. That's all. The ballistics, the close-up photos, the other things, they were done, but haven't been released. They will come out in trial.

The state assigned an out-of-area prosecutor that was willing to step up, spend the month investigating, and take it on. She may have a solid witness, maybe that's a key component. But in a case like this, they physical evidence is likely why she pushed forth with a murder charge. I'd be surprised if it was only witness accounts, because the witnesses have been nothing but of limited use given the environment of the evening.

The political pressure in this case is immense. But if the law and justice in Florida was going to bow to that, they would have arrested Zimmerman in March. Instead, they handled it like they should have. They finally moved Zimmerman out of the area before charging him too. That was all planned. Florida is a state that has a lot of people and a lot of media and a lot of issues, and they know how to ensure things are done according to law and protection.

The system can't prevent crime. It can only ensure it doesn't turn into anarchy after it happens.

Either that or the charge was presented to satisfy the blacks.
Nope, that's bullshit assumption in the other direction.

Again, I will commend people for bringing this to light. Trayvon's family wanted that. But what they didn't want is all of the racial bullshit, exploitation of their son or even the disregard for Zimmerman's rights. That's what has always impressed me about Trayvon's family in this entire case.

Had people not asked, no prosecutor might have picked this up. These laws are newer in Florida and lacking in case law. That's always a problem. You need a prosecutor who will take it on. It went all the way to the top office in Florida. Despite the detractors, this is being handled with the utmost respect for Zimmerman's rights.

Now in the end, if Zimmerman only gets manslaughter and there is rioting, then yeah, that will "be on the blacks." At the same time, just like in the Rodney King case, you'll have plenty of "poor white trash" and "non-blacks" taking full advantage of it "being on the blacks." Who wins again?

Sorry, but this is just the wrong attitude to have. This is going down how it should. No one with half-a-brain thinks this is a racist killing or first degree murder, not even the parents with a dead son. That says something if they can be that objective. It's too bad some of the people on all sides cannot be. Heck, even the right-leaning Florida legislature has been quite vocal on this, along with many NRA members.

And they are hardly the people who want to "appease" what could be taken as a greater, left-wing agenda.
 
how do you know he initiated anythinG??no laws were broken till someone put hands on the other..that is the question to me if im on the jury..who hit who first..you dont hit someone for walking down the screet (please lets dont forget about the skittles so he looks four years younger when we discuss this) and you dont hit someone for walking behind you...wait i thought the funeral guy said no marks was on martins hands, did they happen to see any anywhere else?... if zimmerman hit first...where was the hit mark...zimmerman had a bloody nose and was cut on the back of his head..you do the math..
Yes and no.

Yes, from the standpoint of whether Zimmerman had his life threatened, yes, you are correct. People forget, as the law reads in Florida, if you are beating the shit out of someone and towering over them, you are justified in attacking them back with a deadly weapon.

But no, Zimmerman still cause the overall confrontation to occur and be held harmless if someone dies or has their quality of life altered when they were innocent to begin with. That's the added liability that is at least manslaughter, especially considering he chose to arm himself despite watchman recommendations, and ultimately not heed the dispatcher's own recommendations. He doesn't have to remotely show any intent to harm someone to be guilty of manslaughter. He just has to cause it one way or another.

One of the complaints about "stand your ground" is that various incidents of road rage are causing deaths. One cited was the unarmed guy who was yelling and only touched another guy. What someone failed to explain about that case is the person who was yelling had stuck his head and arm in the car of someone else. In Florida, that's like sticking your foot and arm in a door. You are justified in protecting yourself.

If you think that is wrong, ask yourself this ... WTF are you doing sticking your body in someone else's car for? There has to be a pause and consideration and, most of all, deterrent. You should not be threatening anyone. It's one thing if someone shoots you in the back. But it's another when someone is over you, in your car, in your home. Don't be a "tough guy," leave it be.

Or let's put it another way. Everyone says, "oh, the person who died can't speak for themselves." Well ... what about the person who is killed because they didn't protect themself? That happens too. In Florida, the number of cases of lawful people claiming self-defense is still much, much smaller than the number of lawful people who die from those that were bent on intentionally harming someone, or at least violating their rights before they did so.

And that's the real case here. Zimmerman wasn't interested in violating Trayvon's rights. Zimmerman was just stupid, irresponsible and, ultimately, made choices that resulted in Trayvon's death. It was wrongful. The question is, did Zimmerman kill Trayvon when he was not under immediate thread (murder)? Or did Zimmerman kill Trayvon under threat, but is ultimately liable for instigating the situation when Trayvon was of no danger to the neighborhood (manslaughter)?

People are convicted of manslaughter weekly, normal people, everyday good people. And far more people are killed by irresponsible drivers than irresponsible gun owners.
 
Dude, its been going both ways.
Yes. Although there has been at least one-way detail.

That has been one-way has been the bashing of Florida, its laws, its extensive mesh of cultures.

I have lived in a dozen states all over the US, including Florida for several years both before and during the boom. Florida is a lot like New York City in some regards, but spread out enough to be a large Los Angeles on a state level. Nearly 99% of the opinions in this case are utterly ignorant of what Florida is like, especially central Florida.

What you think you know about Florida, and what you think is right or wrong about Florida's laws, matter absolutely nothing. Not only does it not matter to the case, not only does it not matter to the realities, most Floridians like being different.

Especially when the nation focuses on one thing that went horribly wrong, and ignores all of the things that actually go right, in Florida. Floridians have many bumpers stickers for non-Floridians, and they pretty much are well deserved. ;)

Other than New York City itself, Florida has probably the greatest concentration of the most independent thinking and tolerant people in the country.

In a way, Florida to the US is almost like how Las Vegas is to California. Because it's not only all the things Californians say about what's wrong with Las Vegas, but how Californians like to "get away" to Las Vegas because of it. All the meanwhile the families who live in Henderson and other areas just roll their eyes at Californians, because their views are so skewed on what actually living in Las Vegas is about. So with every insult Californians throw at Vegas, the Vegans just smile with glee in return, like "fuck you you ignorant fuck, you are the people who cause problems, not the people who actually live here."

That's Florida. They like the tourism, the resulting economy, but hate the tourists, their assumptions, their wants, and by God their issues they bring to the state. The next time you see a bumper sticker in Florida that doesn't make sense, understand there's yet another Floridian laughing at you, not with you.
 
Trayvon's family wanted that. But what they didn't want is all of the racial bullshit, exploitation of their son or even the disregard for Zimmerman's rights. That's what has always impressed me about Trayvon's family in this entire case.


The Martin family had a press conference with their lawyer which was expected. However, they should've told that race baiter Sharpton to get his ugly ass out of the photo op. He and the comedic Noo Blackst Panther dildos are responsible for heating things up to the level that they are right now.
If there is any violence then it will be on their(Sharpton, Waters, Brown, Panther) heads.
 
He had a gun and kept following the kid after the 9-1-1 dispatcher told him to stop. Why did he follow him?

let me catch you up...that 911 op wasnt a boss or leader or in charge..she was on the other end of the phone she had no idea what was going on ?..and what i heard was stop! and he said OK that is what my ears told me. and what difference does it make about a 911 audio THAT has been altered !!!!!!!! have you heard ???? ......bountys, tampering with evidence...the media should be having orgasms.....
 

georges

Moderator
Staff member

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
and what i heard was stop! and he said OK .

But he didn't stop. If he had stood down the confrontation wouldn't have happened. When he called and reported it his duty was done. And what exactly did he report? "Hey, there's some suspicious guy walking down the street." If I called the cops every time I saw a teenager I didn't think should be on the street the cops would put me in jail for harassing them.
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
Who, me? Just a little town in Washington, but I've lived up and down the western coast. I won't ask why you ask because naturally I know I'm awesome enough to warrant curiosity about my background. :D

You do realize I'll be in WA next month. Make sure to watch your back...never know if we're from the same small town.
 
But he didn't stop. If he had stood down the confrontation wouldn't have happened. When he called and reported it his duty was done. And what exactly did he report? "Hey, there's some suspicious guy walking down the street." If I called the cops every time I saw a teenager I didn't think should be on the street the cops would put me in jail for harassing them.

Hey Motor Mouth... calm down. Had you opened this inter-active link that I posted seven pages back, and clicked through the arrows, it gives everyone a birds -eye view of the scene.

NOTE: Trayvon wasn't walking down a STREET, as you mentioned in your post.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...eading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Hey Motor Mouth... calm down. Had you opened this inter-active link that I posted seven pages back, and clicked through the arrows, it gives everyone a birds -eye view of the scene.

NOTE: Trayvon wasn't walking down a STREET, as you mentioned in your post.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...eading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

You're just happy a black kid is dead, Samantha. Why don't you go tell it to Jesus. You're a despicable piece of shit. I hope you have a massive coronary infarction. Soon.
 
But he didn't stop. If he had stood down the confrontation wouldn't have happened. When he called and reported it his duty was done. And what exactly did he report? "Hey, there's some suspicious guy walking down the street." If I called the cops every time I saw a teenager I didn't think should be on the street the cops would put me in jail for harassing them.

how do you know he didnt stop??you talk as tho you was a eye witness. how you know these things..because you heard them on nancy grace?its anazing how people is still throwing that 911 call lmao IT WAS CHANGED ..making it not worth a running fuck in court according to the law thats tampered evidence that should be enough to get the whole damn thing kicked out..you dont need to be real smart to see they trying like hell to stack the deck against a man who may be innocent..and IS till they PROVE him guilty
 
I wonder if this is how it all went down.

George: "Hey man.... you looking for someone?"
Trayvon: "Nah dude, I'm good. My father's girl friend lives right down there... (points) I'm gonna spend the night and take off in the morning."
George: "Alright man.. just askin', because we have had a lot of break-ins lately. Have a good night."
Trayvon: "You too."

Trayvon wakes up the next day and none of us are even having this conversation.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Or..... did play out something like this?

George: "Hey man.... what are you doing in here?"
Trayvon: "Fuck off!"
George: "Dude, I'm calling 911.".......... scuffle ensues and then a gunshot.

:dunno:
 
The first big clue is that there's a corpse.

and that is the only solution you can make out of that..as far as you and I KNOW he may have been checking his oil..no way you could know (he didnt stop)..that is what pisses me off about this..they are hanging this guy..and it took them six weeks to find a reason to arrest him. YOU or ME does not have enough evidence to hang anyone at this point..if you think you see enough evidence to call this case at this very moment...you know less than me about the law....lot of questions to be answered IMO
 
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xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Of course no one knows all the facts. Is that going to stop speculation? Hell no. Remember the Casey Anthony trial last year? How many people gave that woman any benefit of the doubt? How many people still believe she murdered her child? Don't fuckin' lecture me about "reserving judgment".
 
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