An Unstable Limbaugh Blames Obama for Ft. Hood Shootings

[~~whimsy~~]

Just when you think a thread is dead it pops up...

 

[wingman00]

why is this uneducated idiot on the air?

 

[Hot Mega]

Personally I think both of you(hot mega and Rey C) are focusing more on the effects of the crisis then it's true root causes.You were suppose to watch this Rey


Both political parties had their fingerprints on the debacle.It was really a failure of economic philosophy as expressed priimarily by people like Alan Greenspan who had a libertarian zero regulation view.He now see's his folly,better late then never I guess.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/



In The Warning, veteran FRONTLINE producer Michael Kirk unearths the hidden history of the nation's worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. At the center of it all he finds Brooksley Born, who speaks for the first time on television about her failed campaign to regulate the secretive, multitrillion-dollar derivatives market whose crash helped trigger the financial collapse in the fall of 2008.

"I didn't know Brooksley Born," says former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt, a member of President Clinton's powerful Working Group on Financial Markets. "I was told that she was irascible, difficult, stubborn, unreasonable." Levitt explains how the other principals of the Working Group -- former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan and former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin -- convinced him that Born's attempt to regulate the risky derivatives market could lead to financial turmoil, a conclusion he now believes was "clearly a mistake."

Born's battle behind closed doors was epic, Kirk finds. The members of the President's Working Group vehemently opposed regulation -- especially when proposed by a Washington outsider like Born.

"I walk into Brooksley's office one day; the blood has drained from her face," says Michael Greenberger, a former top official at the CFTC who worked closely with Born. "She's hanging up the telephone; she says to me: 'That was [former Assistant Treasury Secretary] Larry Summers. He says, "You're going to cause the worst financial crisis since the end of World War II."... [He says he has] 13 bankers in his office who informed him of this. Stop, right away. No more.'"

Greenspan, Rubin and Summers ultimately prevailed on Congress to stop Born and limit future regulation of derivatives. "Born faced a formidable struggle pushing for regulation at a time when the stock market was booming," Kirk says. "Alan Greenspan was the maestro, and both parties in Washington were united in a belief that the markets would take care of themselves."

Now, with many of the same men who shut down Born in key positions in the Obama administration, The Warning reveals the complicated politics that led to this crisis and what it may say about current attempts to prevent the next one.

"It'll happen again if we don't take the appropriate steps," Born warns. "There will be significant financial downturns and disasters attributed to this regulatory gap over and over until we learn from experience."

The US, in fact wold economies are robust enough to withstand tinkering by eggheads in monetary policy as long as there is money being spent in them.

When money is taken out of them (or as in this case diverted) consumers can't support businesses and business can't continue to employ workers...then there are even less consumers to support businesses and business becomes even less capable of employing workers.

 

[Friday on my mind]

The US, in fact wold economies are robust enough to withstand tinkering by eggheads in monetary policy as long as there is money being spent in them.

When money is taken out of them (or as in this case diverted) consumers can't support businesses and business can't continue to employ workers...then there are even less consumers to support businesses and business becomes even less capable of employing workers.

Watch the vid ,it does not deal with monetary policy but regulation or the lack of and tranparency of trillion dollar markets.Greenspan told the woman at the heart of the vid he didn't even think things like fraud should be regulated and that the market would correct itself in such types of cases.He was wrong and acknowledges his error about such things now.

 

[Hot Mega]

Watch the vid ,it does not deal with monetary policy but regulation or the lack of and tranparency of trillion dollar markets.Greenspan told the woman at the heart of the vid he didn't even think things like fraud should be regulated and that the market would correct itself in such types of cases.He was wrong and acknowledges his error about such things now.

Without watching it FOMM...regulation is policy (if not monetary per se). While certain regulations might have been determinative factors, our system is not unregulated. Even if Greenspan suggests fraud shouldn't be regulated, the fact of the matter is most types of fraud are. There are certainly some institutional illnesses but that's in practical terms the equivalent of saying most people are not completely healthy. While true, the fact doesn't tend to have a significant impact on overall life expectancy or quality of life unless coupled with other illnesses.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Without watching it FOMM...regulation is policy (if not monetary per se). While certain regulations might have been determinative factors, our system is not unregulated. Even if Greenspan suggests fraud shouldn't be regulated, the fact of the matter is most types of fraud are. There are certainly some institutional illnesses but that's in practical terms the equivalent of saying most people are not completely healthy. While true, the fact doesn't tend to have a significant impact on overall life expectancy or quality of life unless coupled with other illnesses.

Well all I will say is when you get time it's something you should watch.This "derivitive" market which was as I said was a trillion dollar one was TOTALLY unregulated.Not only unregulated but totally non transparent as well.The woman at the heart of the vid tried to warn about it but was slapped down by very powerfull forces and people some of whom like Larry Summers are still key economic advisors to Obama.They would say errors were made, but no real new regulation has been enacted that would prevent a repeat.

As the text for the vid said.

"Greenspan, Rubin and Summers ultimately prevailed on Congress to stop Born and limit future regulation of derivatives. "Born faced a formidable struggle pushing for regulation at a time when the stock market was booming," Kirk says. "Alan Greenspan was the maestro, and both parties in Washington were united in a belief that the markets would take care of themselves."

Now, with many of the same men who shut down Born in key positions in the Obama administration, The Warning reveals the complicated politics that led to this crisis and what it may say about current attempts to prevent the next one.

"It'll happen again if we don't take the appropriate steps," Born warns. "There will be significant financial downturns and disasters attributed to this regulatory gap over and over until we learn from experience."

 

[Hot Mega]

Well all I will say is when you get time it's something you should watch.This "derivitive" market which was as I said was a trillion dollar one was TOTALLY unregulated.Not only unregulated but totally non transparent as well.The woman at the heart of the vid tried to warn about it but was slapped down by very powerfull forces and people some of whom like Larry Summers are still key economic advisors to Obama.They would say errors were made, but no real new regulation has been enacted that would prevent a repeat.

As the text for the vid said.

"Greenspan, Rubin and Summers ultimately prevailed on Congress to stop Born and limit future regulation of derivatives. "Born faced a formidable struggle pushing for regulation at a time when the stock market was booming," Kirk says. "Alan Greenspan was the maestro, and both parties in Washington were united in a belief that the markets would take care of themselves."

Now, with many of the same men who shut down Born in key positions in the Obama administration, The Warning reveals the complicated politics that led to this crisis and what it may say about current attempts to prevent the next one.

"It'll happen again if we don't take the appropriate steps," Born warns. "There will be significant financial downturns and disasters attributed to this regulatory gap over and over until we learn from experience."

Fair enough FOMM. I'll take a look.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

People still need their burgers flipped. :tongue:



Excuse me?

Many good jobs were lost or had to cut back.

Companies should be penalized for shipping jobs overseas.
They would stay here if that happened.

Would you like your child to end up flipping burgers? I wouldn't! No shame in doing it, it is work.. But it isn't exactly the career i would have in mind for my child... I eat out every day, i dont have the time to cook and lack a house frau (i mean no offense to women by implying they should cook for me.. but i really like chicken - hint).. god bless these people who make my food, BUT, i dont want to do it, EVER... Do you? Or are you just playing the devils advocate?

You are right wille worm many good jobs were lost.. However these same jobs werent exactly 'rocket scientist' jobs either... The best jobs which we lost to overseas were probably computer programming jobs.. Hence today, we have the problem with alot of software being termed 'bloatware'... There code is just not elegant...

Whereas i agree with you that we need to keep jobs here.. How exactly could we do it? Every single rationale i have ever heard for this runs into the face of our international agreements or our constitution... catch-22 yosarrian is still fucked... And milo makes a buck off it...

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

:crash: (There must be a tree somewhere which grows these people.)

What are you saying? The economy is in the tank because more people didn't decide to fix air conditioners and furnaces for a living??

Sorry Sir Osis of Babble...it's a tad bit more complicated than that.

I will concede to you this on sheer supply and demand principles if you're working on average 12 -14 hrs. per day all year long, there are not enough people doing what you do.

As an employer it's far more economical for me to hire another person than pay one guy that much in overtime and double time. Being self employed it's good business to hire an employee to ensure someone else doesn't meet the consumer need in my backlog.

But I assure you "Sir" the economy is not in the "tank" because not enough people fix ACs and furnaces.:2 cents:

Wow, i never said any of that.. All i was implying was that people need to think about tomorrow and find an in demand career! life wont walk up to you and hand prosperity to you... And i never said the economy is in the tank because people arent fixing a/c units.. lol. I was merely pointing out that the field i work in has had a labor shortage for around 20+ years..
There are also many trades to work in... Most with a technical shtick pay very well. I was merely offering advice during this economic downturn, nothing more...
And as regards to hiring someone new instead of paying the overtime. Can they fix it? I can... My employer knows i can too. hence i have the job..

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

HotMega would a snickers satisfy you? I doubt it. You would bitch about the peanuts stuck in your teeth or the caramel or whatever...

 

[Hot Mega]

Wow, i never said any of that.. All i was implying was that people need to think about tomorrow and find an in demand career! life wont walk up to you and hand prosperity to you... And i never said the economy is in the tank because people arent fixing a/c units.. lol. I was merely pointing out that the field i work in has had a labor shortage for around 20+ years..
There are also many trades to work in... Most with a technical shtick pay very well. I was merely offering advice during this economic downturn, nothing more...
And as regards to hiring someone new instead of paying the overtime. Can they fix it? I can... My employer knows i can too. hence i have the job..

You implied at least part of the problem was the labor force didn't have enough marketable skills as (I guess) contributing factor to the economic downturn. Citing "bullshit jobs" you implied there aren't enough people doing for example what you do.

Whether or not your field has enough labor is a separate issue from why some jobs were cut. There is a difference between jobs that are reduced because revenue or business has decrease from jobs that are phased out because they're obsolete.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I have to say, that's a rather odd way of looking at the macro downturn in employment. And the economy most certainly "tanked". I don't think there's an economist alive who would dispute that.

You're a contractor, I assume? Let's say you are and you own your own company.

Here's an example of how the bullshit could affect you... and has affected a great many in your field.

In late 2007, you won the bid to do the HVAC portion on a large commercial project. In the middle of the project (mid 2008), the developer had his credit line cut in the midst of the credit crisis and couldn't complete the project. You're on the hook to your suppliers for your materials. You have the 30% or so that was advanced up front, but your hole is much deeper than that. You file the mechanics liens and go to court. You get the judgment. But the developer is now bankrupt. You may get 30 or 40 cents/$... one of these days. But you rent office space from me and you're now in a spot that you can't pay me. I'm sorry for your issues with the developer, but I need this month's rent. If you can't pay, then I'm going to have to serve notice and maybe evict you. And I'll have to get a judgment against you. Nothing personal, that's just what I'd have to do.

You are indeed in an industry where there is work out there. But having work or providing a service and getting paid are two very different things. Even in the case of just doing residential work, there's no guarantee that you're going to get paid in a timely manner. I have a drawer full of judgments dating back to the late 80's. They're not worth the paper they're written on. Depending on the amount involved, renewing judgments, and chasing down turnips to squeeze them, often is not worth the hassle or effort.

And even if your customers are paying, if your business is successful and growing, you would have a need to access credit lines from time to time as well. But last year, that didn't happen. It all came to a grinding halt. Lines were cut or eliminated, often without prior notice.

All of this to say, while some industries may have been better insulated during this downturn, not every job that was lost was a "bullshit job". Police, firefighters, nurses, teachers, engineers and many other fields got caught - and I would say that these people are pretty critical. Some could or have moved to places where their services could be paid for. But what if a person is relocating and having to sell a house in a down market to accomplish the move? Making a mortgage payment and renting somewhere else is seldom practical for most people. So... another foreclosure. Again, except for a few places, this downturn has touched many, many people across the U.S., and not just those in "make work" or less skilled jobs.

All companies whom i deal with in my line of work have a two year return policy. I can return anything to them as long as i ordered it within two years. Except for equipment such as commercial hvac units. if it has been braised to a lineset i would be screwed... which is why nearly all hvac guys want a payment for at least the cost of the equipment before actual installation occurs. then we only lose the cost of labor... me myself i'd rip the unit out to at least cover my costs and expenses. then i can sell this equipment and still make a profit... it is used... but half the price and new, all the warranty and nothing but profit for me.. It is a win win situation for me once a sale is made.... try suiting a contractor on a default payment... You would go nowhere in my state...

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

You implied at least part of the problem was the labor force didn't have enough marketable skills as (I guess) contributing factor to the economic downturn. Citing "bullshit jobs" you implied there aren't enough people doing for example what you do.

Whether or not your field has enough labor is a separate issue from why some jobs were cut. There is a difference between jobs that are reduced because revenue or business has decrease from jobs that are phased out because they're obsolete.

Even walmart (i know this is a bad example) agrees with my 'bullshit jobs' statement... Walmart no longer hires people to give you cheese when you are shopping... They now have t.v. screens on every isle spouting out, about all the great things this or that product does.... how about self checkout at the grocery store? LOL were being replaced by machines!
You are right hotmega.... (savor it, prob the only time you will ever see me say this) You are right! But still on the wrong side of the fence....I still stand by my bullshit jobs statement... Get an education, learn a trade or end up flipping burgers! Can a machine flip a burger? could i design something hmmmm....

 

[CunningStunts]

This thread is as much bullshit as when the Dems blamed Bush for 9-11, Katrina, and AIDS.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

This thread is as much bullshit as when the Dems blamed Bush for 9-11, Katrina, and AIDS.

agreed im done.... To the lawyer on this thread kisss it....
Hotmega we shall meet again... next time ill bring cookies....

 

[bodie54]

Personally I think both of you(hot mega and Rey C) are focusing more on the effects of the crisis then it's true root causes. You were suppose to watch this Rey

Both political parties had their fingerprints on the debacle.It was really a failure of economic philosophy as expressed priimarily by people like Alan Greenspan who had a libertarian zero regulation view.He now see's his folly,better late then never I guess.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

Excellent post, FOMM.
That Frontline video is a must watch.

 

[Will E Worm]

Would you like your child to end up flipping burgers? I wouldn't! No shame in doing it, it is work.. But it isn't exactly the career i would have in mind for my child... I eat out every day, i dont have the time to cook and lack a house frau (i mean no offense to women by implying they should cook for me.. but i really like chicken - hint).. god bless these people who make my food, BUT, i dont want to do it, EVER... Do you? Or are you just playing the devils advocate?

If that is what they want to do, or own a restaurant.

You are right wille worm many good jobs were lost.. However these same jobs werent exactly 'rocket scientist' jobs either... The best jobs which we lost to overseas were probably computer programming jobs.. Hence today, we have the problem with alot of software being termed 'bloatware'... There code is just not elegant...

Good middle class jobs. Seems they are trying to do away with the middle class. If they aren't they need to bring the factory jobs back to America, to prove that.

Who cares about rocket scientists. We need good, well paying, middle class jobs. The sooner the better.

Whereas i agree with you that we need to keep jobs here.. How exactly could we do it? Every single rationale i have ever heard for this runs into the face of our international agreements or our constitution... catch-22 yosarrian is still fucked... And milo makes a buck off it...

Companies should be penalized for shipping jobs overseas.
They would stay here if that happened.

Raise the tariffs on all imports.

 

[JayJohn85]

Limbaugh said, “ You wait, but let’s not forget this man had no problem with killing people, zilch. This guy’s not a pacifist. This guy is not a coconscious objector.”

Wow that sounds awful like a soldier.

 

[jasonk282]

Wow that sounds awful like a soldier.

WRONG. I have no problem killing enemies that are shooting back at me. Nadal had no problem killing unarmed co-workers, big difference.

 

[Philbert]

Wow that sounds awful like a soldier.

WRONG. I have no problem killing enemies that are shooting back at me. Nadal had no problem killing unarmed co-workers, big difference.

Classic...rational grown-up explaining the basics to a Liberal child-like creature.:rofl:

jasonk282...while you are noble and kind trying to explain the simple realities to a child-like adult wanna-be, it won't work.
Adulthood requires a certain amount of effort to actually understand a reality beyond Nintendo and X-Box, and there's no big boy at the other end of JayJohn85's keyboard.