Americans should not be allowed to own guns.

[the_searcher]

Can someone please explain to me why Americans feel it is a God-given right for them to own a lethal weapon? Because it makes no sense to me. Permitting any old Tom, Dick and Harry to own a device that could easily inflict deadly bodily harm on another person is not logical. And don't compare gun ownership to knife ownership. Guns are a lot more dangerous. Plus they are designed specifically to serve as weapons.

Ask any Tom Dick or Stanley
And they'll tell you whose side they prefer to be on!

 

[Lethal]

Absolutely, perhaps you didn't pick up on the tone of the post. It we're going for redneck stereotypes then all black people are criminals, the world is a scary place where you have to defend yourself with guns.

go back to ur klan rally

 

[sproing99]

I'm sorry, I'll say it a bit more clearly....

I was mocking the position that all black people are criminals.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Not at all.The Second Amemndment is clearly there to establish a militia.A well regulated one at that.The follow up to the Amendment was the Militia Act which clearly places the militia under the president's control.
In other words the Second Amendment was framed to prevent threat to the nation or its government.Not to protect citizens from one of these mythical "tyrannical" governments.That's the job of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

We the PEOPLE. Not the well regulated group of men under Presidential or Congressional control. We the PEOPLE. We ARE the people, and the plain simple fact is, that we as a people have the right to defend ourselves against ANY threat, whether it be a Government, our Government, or some piece of human filth, that wants to infringe upon our rights, in the form of a break in, a armed robbery, or an assault to our personage, or family. Even if it wasn't intended to mean that...it does now, we have our guns, and we WILL NOT give them up. It is what it is, and it's not going to change. That fact is pretty well etched in stone, by the fact that gun sales, ammo sales, and CCW issuance is up NATION WIDE.

If you're going to support your argument using fictional scenarios, here's a couple of equally outlandish ones to support the alternative position.

1. A black guy (it's always a black guy) needs some change for the phone, it's late and it's dark. He approaches a business lady who is making her way towards her car. "Hey !" he says "got some change". The woman, alone and confronted by a black man takes the gun out of her purse and shoots him.
2. A burglar breaks into a house. The homeowner attempts to protect himself using the gun he keeps in the bedside table. Because he's rather sleepy, he misses. The burglar takes out his gun and shoots the guy stone dead



Less fear/more secure; tomayto/tomato. Why do people in the United States need a gun to feel more secure ?

While your scenarios are possible, the fact is, in #1) many criminals use the guise of needing help as an excuse to get close enough to their victim, but if a person carries a gun, they should have some training to help avoid a situation of that nature. In scenario #2), I think you would agree, in situations of extreme stress, such as that, the rush of adrenaline does a lot to wake a person up. To answer your last question...because it's pretty fucking stupid to bring a knife to a gun fight...and criminals have guns. Even if law abiding citizens weren't allowed to have them, criminals would still get them, and then we would be at their mercy.

 

[nothingandless]

yes we should.
everybody should own a concealeled firearms liceanse.
try to rape me here, ill blow your head off.
try to rape me there, i have to fight, stab, or smash, all of which i have to deal with against a firearm wielding assailant.

not to mention the gang problem we have here, which is ruthlessly creeping into all other countries...way to globalize, world.

 

[sproing99]

While your scenarios are possible, the fact is, in #1) many criminals use the guise of needing help as an excuse to get close enough to their victim, but if a person carries a gun, they should have some training to help avoid a situation of that nature. In scenario #2), I think you would agree, in situations of extreme stress, such as that, the rush of adrenaline does a lot to wake a person up. To answer your last question...because it's pretty fucking stupid to bring a knife to a gun fight...and criminals have guns. Even if law abiding citizens weren't allowed to have them, criminals would still get them, and then we would be at their mercy.

How about hiding ?

Most burglars will happily get on with the business of stealing your shit and getting out of your house without killing you.

 

[Marlo Manson]

How about hiding ?

Most burglars will happily get on with the business of stealing your shit and getting out of your house without killing you.

Are you fuckin serious? listen to yourself? :eek: and read what you actually just wrote, your notions about what to do if somebody had the gull to break into your home, what your implying here is utterly fuckin ridiculous, why succumb to the criminal and be his victim (maybe a dead victim @ that, you and your family) while, he or they, steal all your worldly possessions without any punishment of breaching your property? :uohs:

The inside of another mans home, where his family lives? where he lies his head feeling safe? and some SHIT-STAIN breaks into the house, and the homeowner is supposed to secure his family and hide while said SHIT-STAIN steals everything?

Your really reaching for straws here, maybe that's what you would do, cuz you don't have the EQUALIZER to NEUTRALIZE the danger and or SECURE your FAMILIES LIFE 1ST of all, and 2nd of all YOUR LIFE, and then after life in your home is secured, (meaning your family, kids, dogs, pets, any life, then you defend your POSSESSIONS).

Were talking about a SHIT-STAIN who maybe armed with a gun himself, or a Knife, or some other kind of weapon, and while you say let him steal your shit, some of these said SHIT-STAINS are hopped up, juiced, high, lets say there fuckin zooted out of their mind, and maybe inclined to hunt for life, and victimize that said life, cuz he's fuckin wasted out of his mind, so whether or not depending upon his mental state, we (the potential victim, unknowingly) have NO idea what this said SHIT-STAIN has planned for us when he, they, break into our home, and even if he didn't intend on harming life when he entered your home, what if there altered (mental state, condition) he spontaneously decides to KILL all witnesses?

I don't know about your way of thinking, but if its this passive, your saying let said SHIT-STAIN have control of the situation? then you do realize your @ his mercy without a viable deterrence ie. (viola a gun) that is gonna protect your ass, so your not @ the said SHIT-STAINS mercy in your own fucking home, nor will you have to succumb to his desire to harm your family who BTW will feel WAY more secure because the man of the house they live in can defend his loved ones.

You know this was gonna be a rather short and to the point post, but as I thought of all the possible scenario's that come into affect with such a whimsical notion of hiding from a said SHIT-STAIN while he pillages through your home stealing your assets and heaven forbid this said SHIT-STAIN is a (tidy criminal who likes to leave NO witnesses), really made me ponder your rational and your intelligence in this given situation a GUN, would secure and defend your families lives, and secondly and less importantly your belongings.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND I am not implying your a dumb, stupid, nor in anyway NOT a very smart person, cuz you sound smart, and you make some great points, and your posts from what I have seen are very coherent and wise, but in this instance your either IGNORANT and or NAIVE about the ELEMENT, RISK, and DANGER your dealing with here, lets say your idea's of how to deal with a greedy SHIT-STAIN who decides to help himself to your belongings is very laughable and unrealistic. :yesyes:.

1st of all he has broken the cardinal sin of all humanity, and that is (you don't infringe upon a mans FAMILY by breaching their safety in, on, or @ his turf) which is a definite :nono: that is a mans sacred domain, where he SHOULD feel the safest, but even allot of time cuz of conditions of a bad community that isn't even possible anymore, you build a shelter for your family, and you do your best to defend it, come hell or high water. and there is NO such thing as hiding from your MAKER.

Cuz in effect this said SHIT-STAIN could not only be stealing your assets, by the way your attitude is he could be STEALING YOUR FAMILIES LIFE, YOUR LIFE, OR SOMEBODY THAT YOU LOVES LIFE, all cuz you didn't have the necessary tool, equipment, or FFS the gun to defend your families life with, and now your a victim, either a dead victim or a mourning victim, cuz that said SHIT-STAIN killed somebody or something you love cuz you didn't have a gun. :dunno::2 cents::hatsoff:

p.s. if you think a gun would NOT save you from all of the above, lets just assume and surmise you'll have a better chance with a GUN, than you would without one.

I would not take the chance of letting my family or myself be a victim, who could have prevented all the SORROW and GRIEVING by not letting it happen in the 1st place, (DEFEND THY SELF WITH THE BEST DEFENSE POSSIBLE. VIOLA AGAIN IT COMES DOWN TO A GUN.

 

[sproing99]

Hell, they can have all my stuff, it's all insured.

Certainly here in the UK burglars just want your stuff. That's why they break in all sneaky like. If their intention was to kill you, then they'd burst in or lie in wait for you.

If they're just a burglar, interrupting them during their "work" is only going to increase the risk to you. After all, trained police in the US only hit the target less that 35% of the time, imagine what the average homeowner is like.


I have never, ever felt that my life was in danger from a burglar breaking into my house and killing me.

 

[Marlo Manson]

Hell, they can have all my stuff, it's all insured.

Certainly here in the UK burglars just want your stuff. That's why they break in all sneaky like. If their intention was to kill you, then they'd burst in or lie in wait for you.

If they're just a burglar, interrupting them during their "work" is only going to increase the risk to you. After all, trained police in the US only hit the target less that 35% of the time, imagine what the average homeowner is like.


I have never, ever felt that my life was in danger from a burglar breaking into my house and killing me.

Well I guess that's the difference between the mindset of both countries, I for one am not willing to let anybody break into my home while I am there, not for my goods, not for my food, and certainly not for my life, I can't vouch for the accuracy of a trained police officer hitting their target, but I can assure you if that ignorant SHIT-STAIN breaks into my house, the target WILL BE HIT many times, with the 1st shot, and every shot after if need be, I can shoot, I have shot many practice rounds @ the target range, not to brag but I don't miss much, I have a great shot, I have taken all the necessary training to handle my firearm.

Not only that, but I can't honestly say my belongings are fully insured, nor can many Americans I presume, that said, most people if they have the means too protect their households they will, and I don't know many people who would go run and hide while their house is being breached. :nono:

To be perfectly honest with you, the police are NEVER there when you need them, they come AFTER you need them, THAT intruder won't have the time do begin his business, for 1 if the dogs don't scare him off, the second he breach's my home, he's like a deer caught in the crosshairs or a deer in the middle of the road, cuz I am already waiting on them to touch the floor of my house, if they are inside my house, NOT invited by me, you best believe there catching some hot ones. why wait to see what he has planned for me? :nono:

 

[skechers]

How about hiding ?

Most burglars will happily get on with the business of stealing your shit and getting out of your house without killing you.

I don't want to be taken advantage of. Why should you? You're whole mindframe is, roll over and play oppossum.

Pascifism is a beautiful thing. The problem: everybody else aint no pascifist. People own things that can't be replaced.... What's wrong with wanting to protect those things?

Hell, and if you're going to stereotype all gun owners as rednecks, I can stereotype everybody from the UK, even if I don't mean it- and I DON'T- as pastey white tea-drinking pussies, right? But I won't. Because I know generalizations are completely detremental to any conversation.

In your first Scenario, a few posts back, you had an irresponsible gun owner. My whole argument has been: leave the responsible gun owners alone.

In the second scenario.... At least he had an opportunity to attempt to protect himself. Better than nothing.

I think you just don't like violence. Which is fine. No one does. But it's an unfortunate world, and it happens. Sometimes a gun can keep it from happening.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

How about hiding ?

Most burglars will happily get on with the business of stealing your shit and getting out of your house without killing you.

Because I obey the law, I worked hard to get the money to buy my possessions, why should I hide, and let someone steal my stuff? He/she gave up the right to walk out of my house, when they broke into it. Even if I choose to not shoot the intruder, why should he/she be allowed to walk free? At the least I will detain them until the police get there. What about my wife's safety? I should take for granted that it's only a harmless burglar looking for a few bucks? What if it's a drugged up whack job, and has the intention of committing rape? If you feel hiding is the best way to keep you and your family safe, feel free, I choose to handle it head on, and proactively.

 

[lovejoy]

Why I Carry a Gun

My old grandpa said to me, "Son, there comes a time in
every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts
bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass
whoopin'."

I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being
killed.

I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes
this world can be a scary place.

I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there
are real threats in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived
long enough to see the evil in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun
because I understand the limitations of government.

I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have
to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun
because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a
sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when
I die and go to Heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because
men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.


I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because
unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life
and the people who make it meaningful to me.

"Police Protection" is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect
themselves. Police do not protect you from crime; they usually just
investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to
clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die
and too old to take an ass whoopin'.


...author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

__________________

It is because of the tyranny of rogue Government agents who abuse their power and as a last resort to protect the families from those rogue Government agents/Crown officers !!!

 

[marquis2]

Looking through the posts so far I can see some strange beliefs.A God given right? God doesn't give out rights , all he gave out was a set of rules by which to live among which was "Thou shalt not kill"
He certainly didn't give the right to own firearms, this came from the government.In fact though there might be "natural" or "human" rights these are largely meaningless.All rights depend upon a strong authority to back them up.They don't just exist in a vacuum.You might have the constitutional right to life but if the guy pointing the gun at you doesn't care a shit then your right is worthless.
Many posts give the old protection argument which is known from experience to be false.And many posters tell us what they would do to burglars, rapists and so on.Unfortunately no plan survives contact with the enemy and the burglar or rapist might have plans for you too.If you are lucky he might stand still and let him shoot you but don't rely on it.If you shoot him in the back your "self defence" argumant is in shreds.
We don't allow any more than minimum effective force in the UK. Life is valued higher than property.This is why if you crash your car into the river they pull you out first rather than salvage the car.

 

[HeartBroker]

What about guns that shoot knifes?

"Mr.Bungle"
How apropos!
:dunno:

 

[Hot Mega]

Looking through the posts so far I can see some strange beliefs.A God given right? God doesn't give out rights , all he gave out was a set of rules by which to live among which was "Thou shalt not kill"
He certainly didn't give the right to own firearms, this came from the government.In fact though there might be "natural" or "human" rights these are largely meaningless.All rights depend upon a strong authority to back them up.They don't just exist in a vacuum.You might have the constitutional right to life but if the guy pointing the gun at you doesn't care a shit then your right is worthless.
Many posts give the old protection argument which is known from experience to be false.And many posters tell us what they would do to burglars, rapists and so on.Unfortunately no plan survives contact with the enemy and the burglar or rapist might have plans for you too.If you are lucky he might stand still and let him shoot you but don't rely on it.If you shoot him in the back your "self defence" argumant is in shreds.
We don't allow any more than minimum effective force in the UK. Life is valued higher than property.This is why if you crash your car into the river they pull you out first rather than salvage the car.

I don't think any reasonable person believes there is some divine right to firearms. What what we do believe is we have is a divine and legal right to reasonable self defense.

The thread starter presumes owners of firearms and advocates of the right to possess them believe in some God-given right when no such case has been reasonably proffered.

Our right is derived from the US Constitution, what's wrong with believing in that right?

 

[lovejoy]

Looking through the posts so far I can see some strange beliefs.A God given right? God doesn't give out rights , all he gave out was a set of rules by which to live among which was "Thou shalt not kill"
He certainly didn't give the right to own firearms, this came from the government.In fact though there might be "natural" or "human" rights these are largely meaningless.All rights depend upon a strong authority to back them up.They don't just exist in a vacuum.You might have the constitutional right to life but if the guy pointing the gun at you doesn't care a shit then your right is worthless.
Many posts give the old protection argument which is known from experience to be false.And many posters tell us what they would do to burglars, rapists and so on.Unfortunately no plan survives contact with the enemy and the burglar or rapist might have plans for you too.If you are lucky he might stand still and let him shoot you but don't rely on it.If you shoot him in the back your "self defence" argumant is in shreds.
We don't allow any more than minimum effective force in the UK. Life is valued higher than property.This is why if you crash your car into the river they pull you out first rather than salvage the car.

Let me say this, the Founding Fathers gave this rights through GOD.

Did you watch the www.youtube.com, Nada, a 26 years old beautiful woman gunned down by the rogue government agent in Iran, thousands and thousands students got killed in 1998 in Beijing?

I have lived in Washington, D.C. in the 70's when half a million women demonstrated, native American demontrated for their rights and blacks demonstrated for their rights.

If the Founding Fathers did not give this rights through GOD, hundreds of people would have been killed by the rogue white police here in Washington, D.C..

It is the rogue agents that took the law in their hands and killed, and killed, and killed the innocent woman just like beautiful Nada in Iran.


It is the Founding Fathers of a young nation back in 1770's that foresee freedom can only be achieved through a balance of power, through the legislative branch, through the judicial branch and through the executive branch but the most important thing is the "people" branch.


A government is for the people, by the people, of the people. The people has the rights to make sure the Executive Branch does the Rights for its people.

 

[lovejoy]

It is through Civil Rights, Woman's Right that a young nation elected a first African-American President.

I do not foresee U.K. will ever elect a Black Prime Minister for the next one million year !

Case closed.

 

[mrtrebus]

It is through Civil Rights, Woman's Right that a young nation elected a first African-American President.

I do not foresee U.K. will ever elect a Black Prime Minister for the next one million year !

Case closed.

Yes, because we haven't had the civil rights movement in the UK as it is in US, because the experience of black & ethnic minorities is a different one over here, it will take longer for it to happen I think. But Women's Rights has nothing to do with it. But a Black London Mayor is a very real, & welcome possibility.

Oh & incidentally, I do not foresee US will ever elect a Native American President ...ever!!

But we have had a female Prime Minister, which I think makes it a draw with your Black President!

 

[HeartBroker]

Oh & incidentally, I do not foresee US will ever elect a Native American President ...ever!!

If you can find any!
If they did I bet he/she would own a gun

 

[calvin_vandele]

F. Because they are a drug dealer (see B,C, and D)

If you think drug dealers get their weapons by legal means than you are a moron.