American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 children

[abdigangsta]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Let us reverse the situation alright folks?

So a Muslim man who lost his wife, kids, parents to actions done by the American military, then was left homeless and broke "SNAPS". After getting kicked by some asshole private contractor for simply sitting on the side of the road, begging for food. He clobbers the contractor over the head with a heavy object, takes his gun into the nearest outpost with, what he precieves are US soldiers. Instead what he shoots up are American civilians such as teachers, etc and, well maybe 2 or 3 American private security contractors. He's eventually runs out of ammo and hands himself over the the Afghan authorities.

Afghanistan says "Well, he was going through a lot and just snapped". Personally I think this guys' reason for snapping is better than any American soldier could have and yet I doubt the US government would accept that answer or that the Afgans will try him within their own boarders. What do you think?

 

[Sam Fisher]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

What does Obama have to do with the delay in the start of Hasan's trial? According to the record, a military judge granted a delay until June, based on a request from the defense to start it in July. If you have some actual facts that Obama has interfered in the judicial process, and has something to do with the delay, please post that information... along with a link for validation.

Not saying that you make things up... but you tend to make things up.

Here.. this is what I was referring to.

Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting

President Obama didn't wait long after Tuesday's devastating elections to give critics another reason to question his leadership, but this time the subject matter was more grim than a pair of governorships.

After news broke out of the shooting at the Fort Hood Army post in Texas, the nation watched in horror as the toll of dead and injured climbed. The White House was notified immediately and by late afternoon, word went out that the president would speak about the incident prior to a previously scheduled appearance. At about 5 p.m., cable stations went to the president. The situation called for not only his trademark eloquence, but also grace and perspective.

But instead of a somber chief executive offering reassuring words and expressions of sympathy and compassion, viewers saw a wildly disconnected and inappropriately light president making introductory remarks. At the event, a Tribal Nations Conference hosted by the Department of Interior's Bureau of Indian affairs, the president thanked various staffers and offered a "shout-out" to "Dr. Joe Medicine Crow -- that Congressional Medal of Honor winner." Three minutes in, the president spoke about the shooting, in measured and appropriate terms. Who is advising him?

Anyone at home aware of the major news story of the previous hours had to have been stunned. An incident like this requires a scrapping of the early light banter. The president should apologize for the tone of his remarks, explain what has happened, express sympathy for those slain and appeal for calm and patience until all the facts are in. That's the least that should occur.

Indeed, an argument could be made that Obama should have canceled the Indian event, out of respect for people having been murdered at an Army post a few hours before. That would have prevented any sort of jarring emotional switch at the event.

Did the president's team not realize what sort of image they were presenting to the country at this moment? The disconnect between what Americans at home knew had been going on -- and the initial words coming out of their president's mouth was jolting, if not disturbing.

It must have been disappointing for many politically aware Democrats, still reeling from the election two days before. The New Jersey gubernatorial vote had already demonstrated that the president and his political team couldn't produce a winning outcome in a state very friendly to Democrats (and where the president won by 15 points one year ago). And now this? Congressional Democrats must wonder if a White House that has burdened them with a too-heavy policy agenda over the last year has a strong enough political operation to help push that agenda through.

If the president's communications apparatus can't inform -- and protect -- their boss during tense moments when the country needs to see a focused commander-in-chief and a compassionate head of state, it has disastrous consequences for that president's party and supporters.

All the president's men (and women) fell down on the job Thursday. And Democrats across the country have real reason to panic.
New York writer Robert A. George blogs at Ragged Thots. Follow him on Twitter.
Copyright NBC Owned Television Stations


Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html#ixzz1pVj8RJhK


Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html#ixzz1pViY7x00

 

[Facetious]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Note to Afghanis: It's nothing personal

Gilroy police: Iraq War veteran likely shot mother in Mustang before killing sister then self
Mar 15:

Adding another layer of tragedy to the story of a troubled Iraq war veteran from Gilroy who went on a killing spree last week, officials have called off the search for his likely slain mother, police said Sunday.
Though at least 90 law enforcement personnel and volunteers scoured over 40 miles of wind whipped and rain soaked terrain in Santa Clara and San Benito counties Saturday, they found no trace of Martha Gutierrez. Continuing the search is futile until searchers have more leads to go on, said Gilroy police Sgt. Joseph Deras.
"We're at a standstill," said Deras. "The window is closing."
Martha Gutierrez has been missing since her 27-year-old son Abel Gutierrez, an emotionally troubled Iraq War veteran, shot his 11-year-old sister Lucero Luna Gutierrez before killing himself Tuesday in their Gilroy apartment. There is very little hope that Martha Gutierrez is wounded, but still alive somewhere.
Deras said the family, including a surviving adult child, will have a hard time finding peace while Gutierrez remains missing.
"This didn't need to happen," he added.
The search effort Saturday drew friends who couldn't bear the idea of Gutierrez's body laying undiscovered in the woods. One of the area's they targeted was along a creek not far from the South Gilroy nursery where the 52-year-old mother of three had worked for years.
Investigators are continuing their effort to piece together what happened. At this
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point they are waiting for results of DNA tests done on material found in Abel Gutierrez's green 2000 Ford Mustang. They also found Martha Gutierrez's cell phone in the vehicle, which eliminated one means that could have been used to track her down.
The cause of the tragedy remains unclear. However, family and friends noticed Abel Gutierrez had displayed symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder since coming home over a year ago from his last deployment to the Middle East.
Staff writer Steve Johnson contributed to this report.

Source + additional related reports

 

[Ulysses31]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

From 9/11 volunteer to 'Afghan massacre soldier': How U.S staff Sergeant gave up stock broker career to serve his country


* Army Captain speaks of his admiration for Robert Bales quitting his job after the 9/11 attacks to serve
* Robert Bales transferred to Fort Leavenworth in Kansas on Friday night
* Wife and two children moved to Ft Lewis-McChord base for protection
* Family 'stunned but standing by devoted husband and father'
* Soldier, 38, 'did not want to go to Afghanistan' after three tours of Iraq


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-Afghan-massacre-soldier.html#ixzz1pWItsRr8

 

[Rey C.]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Here.. this is what I was referring to.

Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting


Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html#ixzz1pViY7x00

Oh my gosh! Obama was "frighteningly" insensitive! :eek:

In other words, some candy-assed whiners got their panties in a bunch because Obama didn't deliver a (meaningless) feel-good speech in a timely manner. Lord, please give me strength.

For a nation that likes to pretend that it's the second coming of Rome, the people of the U.S. spend WAY too much time trying to get in touch with their delicate, fragile inner children, IMO. "He wuz insensitive to our needs." Well... Waaah! :crying:

Give the crying babies a pacifier, give Obama some sensitivity training, let's prosecute the Fort Hood shooter and then let's be on our way out of that shithole known as Afghanistan. Next!

 

[LeyaFalcon]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Omg! Killing is fucked up all around but killing kid is extra wrong!!! Especially if you're in a position where you're supposed to be honorable and have integrity.

 

[Rey C.]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Omg! Killing is fucked up all around but killing kid is extra wrong!!! Especially if you're in a position where you're supposed to be honorable and have integrity.

Believe me, I would not defend or try to rationalize what this guy is alleged to have done, Leya. I agree with you and every one else that it was truly horrible. And I will say up front that I have never been in combat. But I know people who have, and I've seen how they were much different when they came back from war than when they first left. We come up with all these make believe ailments for stress on the job and post-partum depression when a mom kills her kid, but fuck the guy who sees his friends get their legs blown off. He did something horribly wrong. But since that apparently wasn't in his character before, all I'm asking is, why did he do it? :dunno:

Myself included, I doubt anyone of us could stand half the stresses that this guy saw on his first tour of duty, much less his fourth. If that sounds like I'm taking up for him or (in Sam's pink & fuzzy world) not being sensitive enough, I don't mean it that way at all. I have several cousins who have spent time in Iraq and Afghanistan and not a one of them knows why they were there. I feel sorry for them. I hate it for the innocent Afghan people, who have to live under the conditions set up by their corrupt government. But to be honest, it's not our place to go around the world and take out every bad guy or help every good person in a bad situation. We're not God and we're not the World's Policeman (despite what Ricky Santorum and the neocons and Evangelicals may think).

I voted for George W. Bush in 2000 (primarily) because he said unequivocally that he was opposed to nation building. That got him my vote (in addition to the fact that I didn't like Al Gore). But see, naive me, I didn't know that that silly little smirk on his face meant that he was lying when he said it. Now, we've spent (wasted) over a trillion dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and all we're doing is ruining the lives of American G.I.'s and Afghans alike. BRING THEM HOME!

And if the Taliban wants to link up with Al Qaeda again and blow up another building in the U.S., go right ahead. And then we should simply look back to the lessons of Gaius Julius Caesar (total war) and glass the place over. And there shouldn't be any aid or rebuilding after we do it! What sort of absolute sucker gets in a righteous fight, breaks his opponent's jaw and then drives the other guy to the hospital? And worse than that, we'd be dumb enough to borrow money on a credit card so we could pay the hospital bill and pay his mortgage while he was out of commission. We have got to be the dumbest nation on earth... bar none!

Sgt. Bales' life is ruined. His family's life is ruined. And not to be forgotten, all of those people he killed, and their families' lives, are ruined too. Bring them home...

 

[LeyaFalcon]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Stress is understandable but no matter what awful things you see during war it shouldn't lead you to go murder innocent people and if it does the person should be treated properly for the mental illness developed and charged with the crime the same as anyone else.

 

[Petra]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Honestly, I lay a lot of the blame on the way the US works as well as how the US Govt treats our soldiers.

Coming from a military family, I would bet a lot of money on the fact that after 3 tours of iraq, this soldier wasn't all there in the head. However, the way we like working in the US is we refuse to recognize that burn out syndrom is a real thing, or that PTSD is real. Instead of treating people who are burnt out or have PTSD, we say "so fucking what, get your ass to your job or face the consequences."

Then we all sit here and wonder why incidents like this, or the school shootings, or other postal type shootings happen. But, we much rather react than be pro-active.

Mind, I'm not saying this soldier was right or even if the military was pro-active it wouldn't have happened. Just that I wonder how many incidents like this could have been avoided if people's mental conditions were actually taken into consideration BEFORE levels like this are reached.

 

[johnman]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

I think you all should wait a little longer and find out what the truth is. Personally I believe we will never know the full truth.

It's very possible that the guy went crazy the killings were premeditaed and he acted alone. I'm not buying that story though.

Last thing you want to do is hand him over to the Aghan population so they can burn him and pull his body through the streets by a car and have it televised for all the world to see.

We just need to get the fuck out of the middle east and let them continue to kill themselves. They do that very well and they don't need our help in that aspect.

I'd feel better if we helped in more humanitarian matters elsewhere on the globe even though it doesn't equal $$$ through middle eastern oil.

Jesus, the fucking place has been a bloodbath for over 1000 years why the hell do we still need to be screwing around there?

 

[Ulysses31]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

How could he be drunk when I assume alcohol is banned in Afghanistan and whouldn't he be spotted leaving leaving a heavily defended US Base? Either he's not as crazy as the media is making out seeing how he managed to carefully slip out or he had support from within the base, I assume if you 'lost it' you'd run out guns blazing and be quickly aprehended but everything about what he did was calm and calculated, maybe this was his warped way of getting out of the army as he knew he'd never get handed over to the Afghans and a decent lawyer will get him off on a insanity plea where he'll serve little if no time in a US prison. The US army will not want to be associated with him after his release so will probably give him a huge payoff to leave and do something else on his release as well as a media gag where he'll not be able to write a book or conduct tv interviews about how the army was turning them all into monsters. It maybe true that the US army isn't dealing with mental health issues properly (other Nato forces have barely any incidents like these) so maybe sending soldiers into a country where everyone hates them and wants them out is the problem. I have little sympathy for the guy because he QUIT his normal job straight AFTER 9/11 to join the army, probably to kill a load of muslims in revenge and because he found it hard to nail any taliban fighter he settled for a bunch of civilans instead. A plausible theory?

 

[Rey C.]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Stress is understandable but no matter what awful things you see during war it shouldn't lead you to go murder innocent people and if it does the person should be treated properly for the mental illness developed and charged with the crime the same as anyone else.

I don't disagree with you at all there. A judge will have to decide what his mental condition was.

As for what war and stress do to people, I'm not able to say, since I've never been to war. But I've read that 18 veterans every day kill themselves - that's not normal behavior either. And in 2009 alone, 94 Iraq/Afghanistan veterans killed themselves, with over 1600 attempted suicide in that same year. Fake wars (based on lies), nation building and police actions are not what the kids who join the military should be sacrificed for. Like I said, this whole episode is horrible for all involved. I just look forward to the day all of the soldiers are back home.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

Stress is understandable but no matter what awful things you see during war it shouldn't lead you to go murder innocent people and if it does the person should be treated properly for the mental illness developed and charged with the crime the same as anyone else.

Easy to say from the comfort of the US. War is fucked up. Fucked up things happen during war. I make no excuses but the job of killing people for a living often makes the line between 'right' and 'wrong' blur tremendously. In a war zone killing can sometimes become the only way to express yourself. I have read accounts of soldiers coming home from Vietnam and sitting in their house following people outside through the scope on their hunting rifle. Your told to go over there and if you find something to kill it enough times it will affect you. Doesn't make what the man did right but adds a little perspective.

 

[Ulysses31]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

'It's like saying sorry to the enemy': Lynndie England STILL refuses to apologise for abusing Iraqi soldiers at Abu Ghraib

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pologise-Abu-Ghraib-abuses.html#ixzz1pbXpS6Ry

 

[Ravenholm]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

See that the Cunt is a "Staff Sergeant" I wonder if his favourite Wrestler was "Sergeant Slaughter".

 

[vodkazvictim]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

How could he be drunk when I assume alcohol is banned in Afghanistan and whouldn't he be spotted leaving leaving a heavily defended US Base?

Alcohol consumption is not unknown in Moslem lands. Iraqi's who fired potshots at americans to restore their honour as documented in the book "The soldiers who said no" were often drunk. Artyom Borevik's "The hidden war" relates of Moslem's downing drinks, grinning and saying "We're under a roof, Allah will not see."
Strange, almighty God can't see through a roof? Can't see in the dark?

 

[saschaxx]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

@Vodka : That´s nothing new , that´s what them azzholes are doin since there is alcohol. Just take a seat into an Arabian / muslim - owned plane : After it is out the boarder of the muslim-country, you will see almost all men standing right in front of the restroom with their suitcase , going into restroom with their * Jellabah * ( Arab suit ) and come out with tie + pinstripe-suit and have some whiskeys afterwards . The whiskey was in a locker for sure so Allah could not see it .....lol :angels:

Once changed to *western standard * they´re gettin a strange behaviour , ...especially to females. One of them bastard´s was getting on a flight from Kuwait to Frankfurt a stewardess into real trouble because of his behaviour , .... but he had a serious problem, ...that stewardess was my GF ...
I bet my azz he learned his lesson .
The FIRST I would advice to someone from the west : Whenever a Muslim shakes hand + says ...* good morning * ... open the window and take a look if there´s REALLY a morning, .... and , USA , get your men out this fucking Afghanistan, ...since you catched Osama bin Bullshit, you ain´t got nothin lost right there. This country is DIRTY , NON HYGIENIC , FULL OF SHIT and FULL OF EXTREMIST`S And yes, I was personally in this azzhole - countries, as a sailor and as a hydraulic-engineer .

 

[Ulysses31]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

'He's a con man': U.S. sniper accused of Afghan massacre 'swindled pensioner out of life savings and was $1m in debt'


* Karilyn Bales says her family is 'profoundly sad'
* Charges to be filed against Robert Bales on March 22
* He was $1.2million in debt after 'defrauding pensioner of life savings'
* Claims he was NOT drunk and cannot remember shootings
* Captain speaks of admiration for Bales quitting his job after 9/11 to serve
* Accused of killing 16 civilians, including 9 children, in Afghan village
* Wife and two children moved to Ft Lewis-McChord base for protection
* Family 'stunned but standing by devoted husband and father'
* Soldier, 38, 'did not want to go to Afghanistan' after three tours of Iraq

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...an-massacre-breaks-silence.html#ixzz1ph2Lyb9y

KARILYN BALES' FULL STATEMENT:

What happened on the night of March 11 in Kandahar Province was a terrible and heartbreaking tragedy.

My family including my and Bob’s extended families are all profoundly sad. We extend our condolences to all the people of the Panjawai District, our hearts go out too all of them, especially to the parents, brothers, sisters and grandparents of the children who perished.

I know that all good people around the world, regardless of nationality, religion or political values, join me in grieving that such a terrible thing could happen.

Our family has little information beyond what we read and see in the media. What has been reported is completely out of character of the man I know and admire. Please respect me when I say I cannot shed any light on what happened that night, so please do not ask.

I too want to know what happened. I want to know how this could be.

I have no indication that my family’s own safety is at risk, but I appreciate the efforts that have been undertaken to protect us.

I hope there will soon be no reason for protection of families, whether here or in Kandahar Province, or anywhere, because the pain inevitably inflicted in war should never be an excuse to inflict yet more pain.

The cycle must be broken. We must find peace. I know the media has a right to pursue and report news. As you do your jobs, I plead with you to respect the trauma that I and my extended family are experiencing.

Please allow us some peace and time as we try to make sense of something that makes no sense at all.

All I can do now is emphasize my sadness and my condolences to the families in Panjawai for their terrible loss. The victims and their families are all in my prayers, as is my husband who I love very much.

 

[Member2019]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

More Americans will die as a result of returning veterans in these past years as well as the years to come than acts like this in the country. In fact, I'm still shocked at how few incidents there are in Afghanistan compared to Vietnam, but then again, many things have changed over the last few decades. The all-volunteerism of the service is likely a big factor, although the multiple deployments are definitely starting to factor in.

In both wars, the media definitely plays a huge part. I always find it funny how well American wars are covered by not just US, but also foreign media, but how foreign media tends to ignore their own attrocities. In either case, I'm just glad this does not happen more. And in all cases, all incidents of innocent death are sad and should never be discarded as routine. There is nothing routine about upholding honor and acting with dignity so your colleagues are not slaughtered in response.

 

[Ulysses31]

Re: American soldier has a 'breakdown' and shoots 16 civilians dead including 9 child

U.S. soldier accused of Afghanistan massacre 'told comrades he killed several men... but NOT women or children'


* 2002 conviction related to fight in a casino, court records show
* Wife says her family is 'profoundly sad' and confused about the deaths
* Charges to be filed against Robert Bales on March 22
* Accused of killing 16 civilians, including 9 children, in Afghan village
* Claims he was NOT drunk and cannot remember shootings
* Soldier, 38, 'did not want to go to Afghanistan' after three tours of Iraq

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Afghan-men-women-children.html#ixzz1prmuMYW9