America: the world owes us

[RJS12]

If Hitler hadn't zigged when he should have zagged a few times the outcome, even with the might of the United States military and US military production could have ended very differently. I don't believe the Soviet Union would have come out on top without us, in any scenario.

Those Ruskies lately are sure testing our patience though. Buzzing U.S. Missile Destroyers and Aircraft. That's pretty bold. I say next time we engage missile lock and give 1 warning "You come within 10 miles of our position and you will be fired on" PERIOD!!!

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

The Hitler and Germany you have been taught is a lie.
The bombing of Germany is a war crime.

 

[Will E Worm]

:tongue:

 

[Johan]

sorry for the multiple posts, but the board is being wonky again.

Without a D-Day invasion and the strategic bombing to worry about and only the Soviets and a winter to wait out do you think Germany would've still lost?

Yes, I do. Because the nazis were fighting on two fronts : Russia and England. Also, there's no such things as "only tthe soviets and a winter to wait". Both these things are terribly deadly for any army.
And Hitler is not the kind of leader who accepts to wait until the winter is over. He doesn't care if it's his men are freezing, he wants his troops to go forward, never stop, never retreat, always go forward, because he thinks the aryans are a superior race (and the commies inferior people) who can't be beaten by other people.
When this kind of strategy works, his army is unstoppable. When it doesn't, they all die. Look at what happened in Berlin : the war was lost but still Hitler wanted everyone civilian to fight to the death rather than capitulate. The cease-fire only happened after Hitler's death.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Hitlers repeated military blunders a seriously terrible series of winters in Russia and the vastness of the Russian plains were the end of the Nazis.
England had was well on thier way to kicking Germany out of North Africa before the US got involved I agree it would have taken much more time for the eventual defeat the the Germans were well on their way to defeat by 1941.
Unless the Germans invented the bomb first.....

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

War is war and war crimes judged by the victors.

 

[Supafly]

Tofay I am thinking about the end of the second world war. As a german, we can't really celebrate this day, it's more a day to reconsider what was, what is happening now, and what we should do to make sure that past grave mistakes are not made again.

 

[Supafly]

Today I am thinking about the end of the second world war. As a german, we can't really celebrate this day, it's more a day to reconsider what was, what is happening now, and what we should do to make sure that past grave mistakes are not made again.

 

[ThatRedWing]

OK, by this logic does the world owe Japan for bringing the US into the war? Germany didn't have the resources to win the war. The US entering the war brought about the inevitable much sooner. The war in Europe would have went on another year or two. The war in Asia and the Pacific might have went on for years.

 

[sean miguel]

And Germany's ally Japan, would've had total dominance in the western Pacific without America and would've certainly opened an eastern front against the Soviets which would've been a game changer.

that use of a comma was incorrect as it always is between a subject and it's verb. I was being a comma-kaze, if you will.

some people are obsessed with buttholes; I'm obsessed with punctuation.

 

[Supafly]

that use of a comma was incorrect as it always is between a subject and it's verb. I was being a comma-kaze, if you will.

some people are obsessed with buttholes; I'm obsessed with punctuation.

Good to see you are a grammar nazi, too.

It's a good start to join us ^^

- - - Updated - - -

that use of a comma was incorrect as it always is between a subject and it's verb. I was being a comma-kaze, if you will.

some people are obsessed with buttholes; I'm obsessed with punctuation.

Good to see you are a grammar nazi, too.

It's a good start to join us ^^

 

[Red XXX]

Those Ruskies lately are sure testing our patience though. Buzzing U.S. Missile Destroyers and Aircraft. That's pretty bold. I say next time we engage missile lock and give 1 warning "You come within 10 miles of our position and you will be fired on" PERIOD!!!

Oh .... please, we've been playing these games for decades .... what you're lacking is a good sound track :wave2:

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

OK, by this logic does the world owe Japan for bringing the US into the war? Germany didn't have the resources to win the war. The US entering the war brought about the inevitable much sooner. The war in Europe would have went on another year or two. The war in Asia and the Pacific might have went on for years.

The very second Germany attacked the Russia their fate was sealed.
As far as Japan goes Yamamoto himself thought the U.S. would eventually have too many weapons and too many trained personnel to be defeated.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[GodsEmbryo]

[...] And how about whenever there's some natural disaster in the world, like say the Bandah Aceh earthquake, within days you have a U.S. carrier parked off the coast and flying in life-saving supplies. [...]

Fair point.

But the thing with this kind of arguments ("the world owes us because without...") is that you have nothing to compare it too: there's only one reality. Everything becomes speculation and there might even be valid arguments to claim the world would be better of without the US. And it's very easy to find arguments to say someone owes someone else.

Look at a night satellite photo of North and South Korea and the contrast. Who do the South Koreans need to thank for that but the United States (along with our allies in that conflct)?

Well, without the arms and space race with the USSR it's not even sure we could enjoy that night satellite photo at all. So maybe the US owes the Russians for that?
Without Japan attacking Pearl Harbor it's not sure the US would have joined WW 2. Possibly not leading to an arms and space race. Maybe the US owes Japan?
Without the expertise of captured German scientists and European emigrants the outcome of this arms and space race could have been different. So maybe the US owes Nazi Germany?

Compare it with another argument: "if you could travel in time would you kill Hitler?". People would say yes because the world would be better without this evil, right? You could save millions of lives from the Holocaust or battlefield if you did. But the technical advancement during WW 2 in chemistry and other areas also led to a better farming industry after the war, saving billions of lives who would most certainly have died otherwise. Hitler is a shit stain on our timeline, but without WW 2 it certainly would not have been a better world. So, do we owe Hitler?

[...] We're under no obligation to do any of that. [...]

Is it? Then why should the US be better the the rest and why should we be thankful?

 

[himperv203]

The Hitler and Germany you have been taught is a lie.


The bombing of Germany is a war crime.

Your mother was a war crime letting you into this world you bigot

 

[Will E Worm]

 

[Jack Davenport]

Poor HimPerv.

His posts have been reduced to a series of "yo momma" jokes.