2008 MLB Thread

[sp00ner77]

The local paper doesn't have up to date standings and I have dialup, so looking online is a pain.

Up to date standings

Brewers won their 6th in a row. 9-1 in their last 10. Fielder looks like he's finallly heating up. They probably don't have enough to catch the Cubs , but may have a shot at the wild card. I can't believe the Marlins will keep it up in the east or my Cardinals in the central. And of course the Mets and Braves aren't living up to expectations.

 

[yaheem]

Citizen Reds fan, nealdrox. Who in the hell is this Volquez kid? All the sports pundits said he couldnt keep up his pace, but shutting out the Phillies in Philly? Unheard of. Damn, kinda jealous we got Lincecum in SF but Volquez looks like the best pitcher in baseball. Should be starting in Yankee Stadium in a couple of weeks.

 

[bodie54]

A queston for you all:

You're the manager. You've got an excellent set up man and a proven closer, both of them right handers. In the 8th inning while protecting a one run lead your setup man looks absolutely dominating while retiring the side on 10 pitches; two strikeouts and a pop up. He does not bat in the bottom of the inning. Unless he needs the work, why would you then go to your closer in the 9th rather than give your still fresh and obviously sharp set up guy a chance to close the game?

 

[Red001]

senob44 i agree injures and age are killing the mets. so why hang onto some of them? nealdrox, griffey is hardling playing of late so you may be stuck with him for awhile. bodie54 it depends on the next 3 batters in some cases,if its the power part of the lineup,ie 3-5, i would bring the closer in thats what he is paid for but if its thr 7-9 guys i would leave the setup man in

red001

 

[nealdrox]

Citizen Reds fan, nealdrox. Who in the hell is this Volquez kid? All the sports pundits said he couldnt keep up his pace, but shutting out the Phillies in Philly? Unheard of. Damn, kinda jealous we got Lincecum in SF but Volquez looks like the best pitcher in baseball. Should be starting in Yankee Stadium in a couple of weeks.

I know im a homer when it comes to my opinion but man he is a machine. His stuff is so sick. Chase Ultley even pointed that out after last nights game when he was made to look like a fool by some of the pitches he saw from Edinson. I know we gave up Josh Hamilton fo rhim but its worked out for both sides considering Bruce took Hamilton's spot.

Edinson Volquez
WHIP 1.16
K's 91
W/L - 8-2
ERA. 1.32

The 2 losses are deceiving considering he only gave up 1 Earned runs combined in those 2 losses. Thats just sick.

 

[Magnet]

A queston for you all:

You're the manager. You've got an excellent set up man and a proven closer, both of them right handers. In the 8th inning while protecting a one run lead your setup man looks absolutely dominating while retiring the side on 10 pitches; two strikeouts and a pop up. He does not bat in the bottom of the inning. Unless he needs the work, why would you then go to your closer in the 9th rather than give your still fresh and obviously sharp set up guy a chance to close the game?

The reason is because he is your closer. You pay him to finish the games, not your "set-up" man. Afterall if your set up man was that good, he would be the closer.

 

[D-rock]

A queston for you all:

You're the manager. You've got an excellent set up man and a proven closer, both of them right handers. In the 8th inning while protecting a one run lead your setup man looks absolutely dominating while retiring the side on 10 pitches; two strikeouts and a pop up. He does not bat in the bottom of the inning. Unless he needs the work, why would you then go to your closer in the 9th rather than give your still fresh and obviously sharp set up guy a chance to close the game?

It's even worse if you take into consideration the fact you might need your closer in the next game and he then won't be as fresh as he otherwise could be.

 

[Becks...poamr]

Hey, they wont today 10 to 1.

Damn, I should've taken that bet.

 

[D-rock]

Damn, I should've taken that bet.

It's a good thing you didn't. Then they probably would have lost.

 

[Becks...poamr]

It's a good thing you didn't. Then they probably would have lost.

You're right.

I'm jinxy like that.

 

[bodie54]

The reason is because he is your closer. You pay him to finish the games, not your "set-up" man. Afterall if your set up man was that good, he would be the closer.

Hi magnet. Yes I understand that's the conventional wisdom. But even the best closers are going to blow a save now and then, so if your set up guy is fresh and super sharp I can't see risking the possibility your closer won't be. Once he's in the game you're committed to the him, for better or worse. To me too many managers manage robotically in that situation. And the other significant point is the one D-Rock followed up with....

It's even worse if you take into consideration the fact you might need your closer in the next game and he then won't be as fresh as he otherwise could be.

Exactly!

 

[Magnet]

Hi magnet. Yes I understand that's the conventional wisdom. But even the best closers are going to blow a save now and then, so if your set up guy is fresh and super sharp I can't see risking the possibility your closer won't be. Once he's in the game you're committed to the him, for better or worse. To me too many managers manage robotically in that situation. And the other significant point is the one D-Rock followed up with....



Exactly!

True, but then you will force your setup guy to pitch two innings (which isnt the norm) and then the next day your in the same situation, but your set up guy pitched 2 innings the day before. Then you have to use your closer for 2 innings. When only pitching 1 inning a game it allows the pitchers to stay fresher and pitch 3 or 3 games in a row if need be.

 

[yaheem]

A queston for you all:

You're the manager. You've got an excellent set up man and a proven closer, both of them right handers. In the 8th inning while protecting a one run lead your setup man looks absolutely dominating while retiring the side on 10 pitches; two strikeouts and a pop up. He does not bat in the bottom of the inning. Unless he needs the work, why would you then go to your closer in the 9th rather than give your still fresh and obviously sharp set up guy a chance to close the game?

Well you got lots of teams with great young set-up men ie: Dodgersthefinger) with Broxton, Tigers with the kid who throws hard and plays Guitar Hero, Cubs with Marmol. Even if the kids are throwing great, the closer always comes up. As for me Im bringing in the closer, its his job what he gets paid for

 

[senob44]

I see the wisdom in what you are saying bodie, and I am a big detractor of those that manage "robotically" as you so well put it. I've been mulling this one over the past day or so, and I was about to side with your argument until I read this:

True, but then you will force your setup guy to pitch two innings (which isnt the norm) and then the next day your in the same situation, but your set up guy pitched 2 innings the day before. Then you have to use your closer for 2 innings. When only pitching 1 inning a game it allows the pitchers to stay fresher and pitch 3 or 3 games in a row if need be.

I hadn't even thought of what Magnet is saying, but I have to agree that it is a convincing argument for doing things "by the book". If you are going to have a specific setup man and closer, I think you have to do it by the book and use one for the 8th and one for the 9th. In cases of teams that don't have a specific set-up man (of course very rare nowadays), then I can see extending the setup man for an extra inning, because you can come back the next day with a different setup man.

If you overextend the setup man and he can't pitch the next day, then you risk the scenario of either having a middle reliever working into or for the 8th, or you have your closer pitch 2 innings (as Magnet said) overextending him, and then you lose him for the next game. The fast-paced game after game scheduling of the season dictates that you sparingly use your best relievers so you can count on them to be in every game if need be.

 

[nealdrox]

Well I hope Reds bounce back tonight.

 

[Magnet]

Well I hope Reds bounce back tonight.

\

Looks like they are. They are kicking the crap out of the Marlins.

You know whats kinda dissapointing? Everyone was making a big deal out of Manny's 500th homerun (dont get we wrong I was to). Even ESPN was tuning in for his everybat.

Now Griffey is one away from 600 HR, which only a handful of other people have done, and it dosent seem to be as important. I havent tuned to ESPN to check tonight, but I know after he hit 599 the couple games after they werent.

Why does this seem less important then Manny hitting 500?

Do you think its because the BoSox, as a team, are a lot more high profile then the Reds?

I dont know, what are your guys opinions?

 

[yaheem]

Cmon now Red Sox over the Reds in national media everytime. As for Jr. no worries as soon as he hits #600 he'll be hitting jacks more regularly. Might be the pressure and all, witnessed the same thing with Bonds last year, after he broke the record, the next week he was hitting bombing all over the place.

 

[Magnet]

Cmon now Red Sox over the Reds in national media everytime. As for Jr. no worries as soon as he hits #600 he'll be hitting jacks more regularly. Might be the pressure and all, witnessed the same thing with Bonds last year, after he broke the record, the next week he was hitting bombing all over the place.

Yeah, Im just saying that 600 is a lot more significant then 500 but its getting a lot less media coverage then when Manny was on 499.

 

[D-rock]

If I'm managing a team, for me it's never about what somebody's job is and definitely it's not about what they get paid. It's not my fault if the GM paid too much for somebody. It's about what I think will give my team the best chance of winning now and in the future. The job of the manager is to use any ethical means within the rules to give him the teams the most wins they can in a season. If that's putting some players at a different position or having different people out there pitching that's what I'm going to do. Closers should never be used just to get a save. They should be used in the most important pitching situations in the later part of the game if they are needed at that time. If I have somebody that is mowing down the batters and they still have a low pitch count I will use him. If he gets in trouble latter, the closer can always come in then. I also believe if any pitcher on your team can't go more than one inning (outside of being used extremely heavily the past few days anyhow) than they usually aren't worth having in the first place. At that point unless their numbers make them nearly hall of fame bound they get to be a liability with how long they are able to be out there.

 

[bodie54]

Yep.

I agree, senob, that magnet's point has merit; but as a general coaching philosophy I'm with D-rock on this one.