god belief
- Thread starter Nester6
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Too many assumptions on books written by men ...
In any case, it's too damn big of an equation for us to understand. As someone distinctly noted, the answer is "42."
Frankly, I think that's man, let alone man missing the message. It's no better of a message to send than someone who will receive 100 virgins for ******* other people. IMHO, if you're worried about the afterlife, then you've missed the message about what "do good" does in this world. Even looking at the Gospel of Jesus (which are 4 damn fine books, as are select other books in various texts), what he says, how he lives, etc... is just how we should approach everything in life -- for the benefit of this world.
The one thing that continuous to bother me and I wrestle with myself is whether or not I'd renounce my belief in anything if my ******** or *** would be ****** if I did not. That's the reality select, early Christians had to weigh in Rome. It's really a deep study into how man/woman can choose a simple belief over the life of another.
Once you realize that obviousness of the truth, life is much easier to live.
Understand a lot of religious texts are written for people who would otherwise have serious issues with life, have a past deed they want to repent and forget, etc... They need the "fear of God" and other "warnings" to overcome their general personality. So for those people, I'm glad "God" exists. Unfortunately too many men are able to use that "faith" of others in their own, ungodly ways.
That's not God, it's man.
Unfortunately, most of us failed in recognizing that of Stalin, of Hussein (a Stalinist himself, until well after it mattered), etc... We fail regularly and miserably to do so. Hell, even Lenin didn't move on Stalin until it was too late.
Man has done that to himself. People think "how could God create Hitler?" I ask, "how could we create Hitler?"
The message in most religious texts is that man has inherited the Earth, and it is up to he/she to ensure it's continuation, and the continuation of his/her species.
Women are curves of perfect, natural delight. When I **** up to my wife in the morning, I want to bang the **** out of her, at her alleged "ugliest." BS! The best looking women are those that don't need the makeup, the forgery, the non-sense.
The strength comes from natural selection. I wouldn't be surprised if women were just as strong as men early into our evolution. In fact, several species prior to the Homo line would suggest such.
Remember, these are books written by men, not God (historical fact). As such, they are hardly "empirical evidence" when you try to apply science and try to understand "God."
Now you're starting to hit on what select Christian faiths believe is pre-determined destiny. IMHO, it utterly ignores the fact that the experiences people have can change them. Then again, others would argue that those experiences are pre-determined.
In any case, it's too damn big of an equation for us to understand. As someone distinctly noted, the answer is "42."
What better way to motivate people to "do good" than to say, "you think a sucky lifetime is bad, wait until you die and go to the afterlife!"
Frankly, I think that's man, let alone man missing the message. It's no better of a message to send than someone who will receive 100 virgins for ******* other people. IMHO, if you're worried about the afterlife, then you've missed the message about what "do good" does in this world. Even looking at the Gospel of Jesus (which are 4 damn fine books, as are select other books in various texts), what he says, how he lives, etc... is just how we should approach everything in life -- for the benefit of this world.
The one thing that continuous to bother me and I wrestle with myself is whether or not I'd renounce my belief in anything if my ******** or *** would be ****** if I did not. That's the reality select, early Christians had to weigh in Rome. It's really a deep study into how man/woman can choose a simple belief over the life of another.
So many people call it "God's biddings." What I see is a lot of "man's biddings" replacing a lot of "truth." The wages of sin are obvious, a simple life is less of a burden on yourself, others, etc... People get so focused on "what God won't let me do" instead of "what is best for you."
Once you realize that obviousness of the truth, life is much easier to live.
Understand a lot of religious texts are written for people who would otherwise have serious issues with life, have a past deed they want to repent and forget, etc... They need the "fear of God" and other "warnings" to overcome their general personality. So for those people, I'm glad "God" exists. Unfortunately too many men are able to use that "faith" of others in their own, ungodly ways.
That's not God, it's man.
Did God create Hitler? Or did man? A man does not put himself into power. In fact, other than nuclear power (of which they have correctly mastered), it's yet another folly of the French (and Germans). But in the end, it is a history lesson to us all.
Unfortunately, most of us failed in recognizing that of Stalin, of Hussein (a Stalinist himself, until well after it mattered), etc... We fail regularly and miserably to do so. Hell, even Lenin didn't move on Stalin until it was too late.
Man is man, he can be as righteous or evil as he believes. In fact, man is often very evil when he believes he is righteous. There is nothing worse than not questioning and following someone, especially when you start disagreeing with the path they ask you to follow.
Man has done that to himself. People think "how could God create Hitler?" I ask, "how could we create Hitler?"
Our souls will burn on this plane if evil overtook our normal deeds. The folly of man is that he/she continues to look at things as if he/she has no "ultimate control" over them. That's not the message most religious texts send at all! In fact, quite the opposite!
The message in most religious texts is that man has inherited the Earth, and it is up to he/she to ensure it's continuation, and the continuation of his/her species.
Who says? Maybe that's what the media or some men say, but not I!
Women are curves of perfect, natural delight. When I **** up to my wife in the morning, I want to bang the **** out of her, at her alleged "ugliest." BS! The best looking women are those that don't need the makeup, the forgery, the non-sense.
I disagree. Because procreation is control.
No, that's much of your European/Asian history speaking. That was man, not God. There are many societies where women dominated, or at least shared power. Just because a majority of societies -- at least the ones that survived -- went that route doesn't mean it is true.
The strength comes from natural selection. I wouldn't be surprised if women were just as strong as men early into our evolution. In fact, several species prior to the Homo line would suggest such.
According to texts written by men.
The equation of life ...
I don't know how many times engineers/scientists have arguments with non-engineers/scientists (especially environmentalists who have no background) who say, "you can't explain how much of this material in this environment" and they are able to bark back, "yes we can" using a complex system of equations (especially with input from physical chemists and other specialties that can describe the reactions). The problem is the latter can't understand the system of equations we use to show the amount at any point in time far better than their simple uses of arithmetic (typically little more than addition, possibly a single variable algebraic equation).
Calculus (and its countless instances) is the elementary study of continuous change. There are higher orders of math, some we have not yet discovered, that make both describing systems easier while allowing us to describe more complex ones. Complex (let alone sets) equations in algebra become a single, simple equation in calculus, while describing the system continuously (unlike their set of equivalent, instances in algebra).
Now various molecules, materials, polymers, etc..., they are nearly infinite, and creating them for the first time is far more involved. But we have the grasp on the basics of our material universe (energy is another matter), and the ever increasing computing power to try many combinations for centuries to come.
Worse yet, when you try to explain something, how someone has taken advantage of your ignorance (just like an accountant could easily take advantage of my ignorance of the tax code), you get lambasted as arrogant or thinking you're better than anyone else.
That strikes me very much of what is wrong with man, separate from God. In fact, sometimes I believe man uses God as an excuse, instead of stopping to understand. I don't know how many times I've been told that space exploration is an abomination, or people say its a waste of money that could be better put to "more Godly uses."
I disagree. You can describe any system and its interactions. An entity that can do that for all objects in the universe can predict nearly all actions and reactions.
I don't know how many times engineers/scientists have arguments with non-engineers/scientists (especially environmentalists who have no background) who say, "you can't explain how much of this material in this environment" and they are able to bark back, "yes we can" using a complex system of equations (especially with input from physical chemists and other specialties that can describe the reactions). The problem is the latter can't understand the system of equations we use to show the amount at any point in time far better than their simple uses of arithmetic (typically little more than addition, possibly a single variable algebraic equation).
Calculus (and its countless instances) is the elementary study of continuous change. There are higher orders of math, some we have not yet discovered, that make both describing systems easier while allowing us to describe more complex ones. Complex (let alone sets) equations in algebra become a single, simple equation in calculus, while describing the system continuously (unlike their set of equivalent, instances in algebra).
Who says we even understand our own physics? That's why we call it Einstein-Newtonian physics at this point. Einstein left plenty unexplained, as did Newton before him.
Actually, we've discovered all our naturally occurring elements, as well many that have to be man-made today. In fact, there are various "obviousnesses of the truth" to anyone who studies the periodic table of elements (including the prior argument I had with someone over using deplete uranium in sabot rounds as being no worse than lead, or anything else "heavy" on the table).
Now various molecules, materials, polymers, etc..., they are nearly infinite, and creating them for the first time is far more involved. But we have the grasp on the basics of our material universe (energy is another matter), and the ever increasing computing power to try many combinations for centuries to come.
Agreed. The main, continuing issue with man is his/her limited powers of "observation." In fact, it's the reason why we engineers are often misunderstood by non-engineers. The moon landings were fake is a perfect example.
Worse yet, when you try to explain something, how someone has taken advantage of your ignorance (just like an accountant could easily take advantage of my ignorance of the tax code), you get lambasted as arrogant or thinking you're better than anyone else.
That strikes me very much of what is wrong with man, separate from God. In fact, sometimes I believe man uses God as an excuse, instead of stopping to understand. I don't know how many times I've been told that space exploration is an abomination, or people say its a waste of money that could be better put to "more Godly uses."
God could, yes. It falls under the omnipotent and/or omniscient label. The omnipotent label also introduce contradiction however, such as the famous rock-so-large-he-couldn't-lift-it argument. That in itself is not proof that God doesn't exist, but it does show that if there is such as thing as an omnipotent being as defined by various religions, it cannot be governed by the laws of logic as we know them. And if it is not governed by the laws of logic, using logic to prove or disprove its existance is as futile as trying to explain what the color of the universe is from the outside when we're stuck inside it and no way to get out.
Law and theory ... logic is a theory in my eyes ...
In fact, if everyone could understand everything, do you think there would be as many people practicing organized religion?
E.g., boolean logic is "quite broken" when it comes to computers -- it ignores control. If you ask 99% of computer scientists, they don't realize that, and have been taught otherwise. But once you start explaining it to them, 99% will agree, it's flawed.
Since is mainstream religion about logic and proof and not faith?
In fact, if everyone could understand everything, do you think there would be as many people practicing organized religion?
To me, logic is more about theory than law, just like physics. I think we agree, although I think you're a bit too "absolute" on things for my tastes.
E.g., boolean logic is "quite broken" when it comes to computers -- it ignores control. If you ask 99% of computer scientists, they don't realize that, and have been taught otherwise. But once you start explaining it to them, 99% will agree, it's flawed.
As demonstrated in this thread, debating God is a popular activity. I'm just pointing out that when it comes to God, things are probably not going to make sense from our perspective, compared to the perspective of an omnipotent entity. Raw logic in particular, since it can be shown that such an entity couldn't be governed by it anyway.
Oh, current logic may not necessarily be the ultimate tool, but fact remains, it is not equipped to deal with God. Perhaps it will be refined enough to do so one day, but until then, it's not going to do much good applying it to something that is outside its domain.
Its all a Fairytale and the bible was written by man(or woman)
I believe in ****** Nature,and some would say who created ****** nature(who knows-all we can do is speculate)but lets get real-it wasnt created by a man/woman.
I believe in ****** Nature,and some would say who created ****** nature(who knows-all we can do is speculate)but lets get real-it wasnt created by a man/woman.
Yes its all in good fun:tongue:
Hello all,I think that I'll chime in with my two cents.
First off, I don't believe in a Christian God but I do believe in the existence of being on a higher plane of existence. Personally,I find the most truth in Bhuddism;liberation instead of salvation.
Here's something to chew on.If Christianity is the truth then why are there so many different divisions of the faith.Truth needs no interpretation because it is irrefutable like 1+1=2,only an idiot would try to tell you anything else. Prodestants and Catholics can only agree on certain things,but after that,all bets are off.
My personal opinion is that if there is a god like in the Christian Bible,then he's one cruel,sick being.Just look at the world,It's a **** hole an only getting worse.If God was so loving then he would give people definite evidence of his existence then all of the world's wars would probably end.If anyone has read the third book of the "Conversations With God" series,God explains to Neil Donal Walsh that all of the worlds problems and fortunes are all of his doing because he is a part of everyone that is and has ever existed,and he wants to experience "everything".This accually makes a lot of sence to me(my explanation is half-assed, so you should read it for yourself to understand more clearly).
Anyway,if there is a god,I think that the best way to explain it is,your life is a book already written and you are living each day one page at a time,hence no free will,but that's another debate.
First off, I don't believe in a Christian God but I do believe in the existence of being on a higher plane of existence. Personally,I find the most truth in Bhuddism;liberation instead of salvation.
Here's something to chew on.If Christianity is the truth then why are there so many different divisions of the faith.Truth needs no interpretation because it is irrefutable like 1+1=2,only an idiot would try to tell you anything else. Prodestants and Catholics can only agree on certain things,but after that,all bets are off.
My personal opinion is that if there is a god like in the Christian Bible,then he's one cruel,sick being.Just look at the world,It's a **** hole an only getting worse.If God was so loving then he would give people definite evidence of his existence then all of the world's wars would probably end.If anyone has read the third book of the "Conversations With God" series,God explains to Neil Donal Walsh that all of the worlds problems and fortunes are all of his doing because he is a part of everyone that is and has ever existed,and he wants to experience "everything".This accually makes a lot of sence to me(my explanation is half-assed, so you should read it for yourself to understand more clearly).
Anyway,if there is a god,I think that the best way to explain it is,your life is a book already written and you are living each day one page at a time,hence no free will,but that's another debate.
Remember, man is involved ...
I think you hit it on the head. Some people don't want to "liberated," they want "salvation." Liberation is scary, it requires you to be responsible for your own actions. Too many people want excuses.
Know that many Christian faiths don't focus on salvation, but believe in the liberation of themselves. Yes, Christianity is often over-sold otherwise, but there are many Christians who not only see it that way, some are practicing Buddists as well.
Oh I so agree there. But I think you don't realize that some Christian faiths do have the same message.
The problem is man, not God.
A lot of it is also political and even power-based, at least historically.
Again man, not God.
I think you hit it on the head. Some people don't want to "liberated," they want "salvation." Liberation is scary, it requires you to be responsible for your own actions. Too many people want excuses.
Know that many Christian faiths don't focus on salvation, but believe in the liberation of themselves. Yes, Christianity is often over-sold otherwise, but there are many Christians who not only see it that way, some are practicing Buddists as well.
Hardly! Remember, man is involved here.
Re: Remember, man is involved ...
And that's the problem with Christianity,they ALL aren't on the same page.As far as I know,ALL Christian sects express the importance of personal accountability.I don't think that it is exclusive to some sects as opposed to others.now whether it is fully embraced is a whole 'nother story.
Man is only invoved because all of the religions texts are written with our hands(but influenced divinely
).If you eliminate ignorance then there is nothing to fight about,"THEORETICALLY".:1orglaugh
And that's the problem with Christianity,they ALL aren't on the same page.As far as I know,ALL Christian sects express the importance of personal accountability.I don't think that it is exclusive to some sects as opposed to others.now whether it is fully embraced is a whole 'nother story.
Hardly! Remember, man is involved here.
Man is only invoved because all of the religions texts are written with our hands(but influenced divinely
).If you eliminate ignorance then there is nothing to fight about,"THEORETICALLY".:1orglaughRe: Remember, man is involved ...
What i mean is that in the beginning,God(the almighty omnipotent)allowed Adam and Eve to be influenced by evil(Lucifer) which was the small pebble rolling down the snowy hill of the problems of today.So if that **** would not have happened then the whole world would be Eden,according to Christianity,but people like you and me know that's total b.s. So assume it's true,then why let it happen unless you are one of these people who like to watch fuck up **** happen.That's what i mean. So if you look at it in the Christian perspective,man has little to do with it,it's divine providence.
For those who don't believe in evolution I don't blame you. It's counterintuitive and to understand it you have to understand the vast amount of time it takes for it to take place (billions of years).. it's beyond comprehension.... But you know what? Evolution is fact! So, you better biggi up and pick up a book or two bros and read a little about it. Read one of the Introducing..... books. They're easy reads (they're cartoons!) So, read "Introducing Evolution"... you'll get some of the basics down and will be better informed. They're a little too basic though.. but it's a start and then you can maybe read something more serious like "The Blind Watch Maker"
The "God Delusion", by Richard Dawkings is a new, excellent read... for the Christians with firm beliefs, read Sam Harris' book Letter to a Christian Nation .... what else? Do you still want me to tell you if I believe in God? Listen, when you understands science and history you understand why we can't let you of a ridiculous notion like an invisible God sitting somewhere in the sky with nothing better to do than to play fucking games with us!... There's definitely no evidence for a God like that of the major religions... but the need for us to feel alone in this world is so deep that we're willing to feed ourselves any bullshit they tell us - which we accept as faith - only to make sense of a world that is far more complicated that we can imagine.
The "God Delusion", by Richard Dawkings is a new, excellent read... for the Christians with firm beliefs, read Sam Harris' book Letter to a Christian Nation .... what else? Do you still want me to tell you if I believe in God? Listen, when you understands science and history you understand why we can't let you of a ridiculous notion like an invisible God sitting somewhere in the sky with nothing better to do than to play fucking games with us!... There's definitely no evidence for a God like that of the major religions... but the need for us to feel alone in this world is so deep that we're willing to feed ourselves any bullshit they tell us - which we accept as faith - only to make sense of a world that is far more complicated that we can imagine.
Very well said.For a minute there,I thought you were gonna go the other way.Unfortunately,faith in religion(Christianity especially)makes those who believe closed to any other option other than their own truth,which perpetuates the greatest evil of all,ignorance.So your suggestion to read up on the subject of evolution may be falling on deaf ears(or blind eyes in this case).Other than what they teach in public school,most "believers" just don't want to hear it,just like they don't want to learn about any other religion besides their own.It totally baffles me how people try to argue that there religion is right when they haven't even tried to learn anything about the others.
Remember that at the core of believe is a "lie".:1orglaugh
Back to evolution again? Okay, I've got a question for you. If life is so complex that someone must've designed it, why is it that this creator could not have created a complex autonomous system that dynamically (re)designs life as appropriate to the situation instead? Evolution does not deny this possibility, so why does ID?
maybe we are just an ant ****.
Yeah, that's a possibility. But then why pray to an entity that doesn't really care about us?
I got into a debate/argument yesterday with a Christian who maintains that the Bible is absolute truth and unquestionable fact, and all who don't believe in it word through word without question, or even attempt to learn about other belief systems, are condemned to "burn forever in Hell." When I challenged him about his statements and quoted scientific evidence against his statements, his response was "anything that conflicts with the Bible is false, because if it was the truth, it would already be in the Bible." I realized at that point I was wasting my time debating the issue.
I realized at that point I was wasting my time debating the issue.Similar threads
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