What is it with this "bad/wrong" thing? And why are people so focused on "cheating"?
and to me- isn't thinking about cheating with another woman, just as bad as actually doing it?
This is what I don't understand. Not trying to single you out, and I think you're showing some of the most insight.
But to me, I think the problem is that we focus on "bad" and "wrong" instead of "right." We focus on "cheating" instead of "enjoying." Why is that?
If you're focused on other things than what is "right" with your marriage and what you "enjoy" with your marriage, then you really shouldn't be married to your spouse. Honestly. Might as well be honest about it.
Don't give a fuck about the divorce rate. There is no "award" for being married only once. There is no "award" for being married the fewest times. People change. People make mistakes. And other people aren't always honest, especially with themselves. I'm honest with my wife, and she is honest with me.
Now with that all said ...
Can another woman than my wife get me hard? Yes. I think I've stated enough evidence on this board to more than qualify that. Do I ever think about "cheating" on my wife? I could answer that question directly, but instead, all answer it indirectly. Let's go beyond the fact that I'm not on this board when I'm not traveling away from my wife (when I'm with her, I just want to be with her). Why do I deny myself opportunities while on the road, especially with the "lesser appreciated beauty" I go for (not that I'm much of a catch)?
My wife is the ultimate lay. She was when I first married her, she was the ultimate anticipation when I first met her, and now 15 years into being with her, that lust -- and I mean
lust -- has only gotten stronger. I lust for her gaze. I lust for her curves. I lust to be inside of her in every way. I lust to be one with her. I still unload inside of her like it's my first time, taboo and everything else. I crave it!
Let's even take away, for a moment, the fact that my wife and I love -- not just prefer, but love -- having a monogamous relationship. If she said I could sleep with another woman, would I? Not "cheating," with full approval. Would I? Here's the deal, no. I am not going to ever feel as comfortable and content as I do with my wife. No woman is ever going to give me pleasure as much as my wife. Furthermore, I'm not into "cliches" like "why have hamburger when you have steak at home," my wife is just the ultimate, and I want the ultimate.
Now let's flip this. What if my wife wanted another man? I love her enough to let her have another man. If she came to me and told me why, I want to make her happy. In fact, I could find a way to enjoy another man making love to her with myself. Why? Because seeing the most beautiful woman in the world lusted after can be sexy, as long as you let go of the "property" and other non-sense. Spouses aren't property, they are partners, and what your partner values is what you value.
That is marriage, at least as I define it for myself.
You want to look at porn when married? Tell her beforehand! You want to have an open relationship? Tell her beforehand! You want to have "guys nights out"? Tell her beforehand! You don't want the BJs to stop after marriage? Tell her beforehand! Tell her all you want once you get married, no matter how selfish you think it is, she needs to know all your desires!
There are no "absolute values" in relationships. There are the values of the partners, which they vow to accept when they marry. Hell, there's nothing wrong with multiple partner relationships, except the difficulty in trying to get 3+ people to agree on all the same values. It's all relative, but it requires honesty and maturity to work.
And that means you can't be a hypocrite with one-way values purposely built on denial instead of sharing. You can't lust for relationships with other women while coveting your marriage and never letting your spouse even look at another man, that's clearly a "property" view. It's one thing if you agree to have such an one-way setup -- you can sleep with other women and she does not sleep with other men, if that's what she wants (and might even want to enjoy the women with). But it's about values that actually conflict and are in hypocrisy. Where you find pleasure and you deny her the same. It has to be about an arrangement of mutual pleasure.
Instead, what a lot of relationships seem to be horribly built-on is hiding things. I really don't care to call it "cheating" because it totally misses the point, let alone conjures ideals of "absolute rights/wrongs." A lot of people really get off on the hiding of it, the cheating aspect, the wrongness, and that's where the very issue and foundation of marriage in "honesty" breaks down. It's not the alleged "cheating" that is difficult to get over, but the lack of honesty, the question of if your spouse enjoys hiding things from you, etc... Too many people don't realize that until it happens, especially the person who did so!
Likewise, a lot of people excuse sleeping with another woman on not having sex. In all honesty, it means there's a communication issue. If you communicated that sex was important to you before marriage, you must communicate how she's not living up to her agreement. Sleeping with another woman is not the way to do it, because it wrongly involves another person into your value partnership. Masterbation? Yes, that's one way. Porn? Yes, that's another, although I wouldn't recommend Porn if you knew before you married her that she had a real problem with it (you accepted those values of hers). There are still only two people involved in these cases.
And don't let anyone tell you that "oh, sex is secondary," because if it's not "secondary" in your view, then it's not, period, no one can answer for you or your relationship. Sex is very important, at long as at least one person is functional. Unless, of course, you communicated it wasn't important before you married. I know there are a lot of dishonest women out there who give BJs before marriage, and then stop after getting married. Understand they are fools who should communicate their lack of interest beforehand, and are only setting themselves up for expectations.
And most important, marriage should
never be considered a "responsibility that cannot end." Yes, marriage is a responsibility. But it's not one that cannot end. People can and should choose to end relationships when they are not working out. It's more difficult with kids, because that's a third party that's now involved, likely the most important party. Ending marriage should be about finding compatibility, especially the compatibility of not living with each other. If you're having a strong "hate" aspect in a relationship, if you have kids, divorcing to escape it may not make much difference in how much your kids are fucked up as a result of those lessons. Learning to deal with someone is sometimes the better path to choose, especially if you've taken on such responsibilities.
Although some people just aren't understanding in the least bit, and there's no much that can be said for them. They may not find any compatibility and contentness ever in their life. Avoid such people, period.
