Why are Americans so afraid of Socialism?

[Member2019]

Simple ...

Because Americans suck at socialism. We don't approach it like Europeans.

Too many Americans think socialism is about "what I get." The reality is that socialism is about "what I give up, to give to those that don't have."

And, right now, we do have mega-socialism in the US.

We have people -- single adult households even without kids -- having their rent paid for and countless other things. This is quite in contrast to most European nations. We provide illegal immigrants with state services, whereas most European nations would deny such services, let alone the state does not tolerate an endless barrage of lawyers in the courts like here in the US.

We've already screwed up our healthcare system to the point it's as far from "private" as you can get. It's more "fascist" economic model than anything. Socialized medicine in the US would be just as fucked up as we've managed to fuck up alleged "private."

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Americans really want to go socialist, we should get countless European leaders over here to give us the "smack in the face" we need. Socialism is not about paying for your car and your mortgage.

Socialism is about feeding and caring for those who don't even have such.

 

[boobfan]

There is a very simple reason for this and its the fact that the rich and the big corporations do not benefit from it. Its actually a detriment to them because then they would have to actually contribute instead of continually trying to steal or screw the average person. This is why since the Great Depression that these people have managed to systematically take away every program that FDR instituted to help the people. From what I've read and I'm sure some of our European friends can put there :2 cents: into this, but corporations in Europe are not allowed to "run wild" without any control. And outsourcing people's jobs to a foreign country like India, China and etc is not acceptable in these countries. But unfortunately, here its encouraged because then they can get extremely cheap labor.

And at least they take care of their people and don't let them just fend for themselves. Look at the whole homeless problem we have here, and I can keep going but I'll stop now.

What I really love is how stupid people are thinking that Europe and other countries are like the third world, I've been around and some of the people in these countries live the same or even better than we do.

The US got the entire concept of outsourcing from Europe.
German, French, Spanish, Italian, Swiss, and Finish Banks have 'help desks' whos phones are all answered in Mubai, India.
Most of those jobs were outsourced to US companies at some point.
Many phone jobs for large European companies are outsourced and most are now outsourced to Mubai, India.

 

[boobfan]

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating public or state ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equality for all individuals

Below is a list of Countries who constitution makes referance to socialist ideals, but are NOT communist. your right American should strive to be more like these countries.

[edit] Constitutional references
Bangladesh - People's Republic of Bangladesh (since 16 December 1972) (Gônoprojatontri Bangladesh) (see Constitution of Bangladesh)
Egypt - Arab Republic of Egypt (Gumhūriyyet Maṣr el-ʿArabiyyah) (since 11 September 1971) (see Constitution of Egypt)
India - Republic of India (since 2 November 1976) (see Constitution of India)
Libya - Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya (Al-Jamāhīriyyah al-ʿArabiyyah al-Lībiyyah aš-Šaʿbiyyah al-Ištirākiyyah al-ʿUẓmā) (since 1 September 1969)
Portugal - Portuguese Republic (República Portuguesa) (since 1976) (see Constitution of Portugal)
Sri Lanka Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka (since 7 September 1978) (see Constitution of Sri Lanka)
Syria - Syrian Arab Republic (Al-Jumhūriyyah al-ʿArabiyyah as-Sūriyyah) (since 1973) (see Constitution of Syria)
Tanzania - United Republic of Tanzania (since 26 April 1964) (see Constitution of Tanzania)

[edit] Informal
Nicaragua - Republic of Nicaragua (República de Nicaragua) (see Sandinista)
Venezuela - Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela (República Bolivariana de Venezuela) (see Bolivarianism)

Maybe next time when Socialist Europe goes to war America will keep its damn nose out, we saved your ass once might not do it again, although Socialist obama will have his dick so far up Europe's ass we will have to help them again.. hell most of your Armies and Air Forces are fighting with out equipment anyways.

Socialism and communism are NOTHING alike and should not even be used in the same paragraph unless you are pointing that fact out.
America did not become the economic power it is and could not have in a Socalist system we would be in the screwed up mess Europe is right now (with the Euro) trying to balance out currencies with trade at best or at worse we would have been taken over by the Nazis during WWII.

 

[lurkingdirk]

Re: Simple ...

You said it right there. When it's done correctly. How often does that happen? And hey, I think this is a great topic and should be discussed constructively. But, how often is Socialism done correctly?

I kinda breezed through the responses, so forgive if I'm repeating: Democracy's main strong point is the separation of powers. Executive, Legislative and Judiciary. We will not give that up. Not to mention that, thanks to the 1st and 2nd Amendments, the general population has the ultimate power. While there is no shortage of revolutionary governments, presently and throughout history, most of them made it their business to curtail any future revolutions as their first priority. When our Founding Fathers got finished with their revolution, they made it their first priority to make damn sure we could do it again, if we wanted.

Let me put it this way. We proved that Democracy was the way to go the day Nixon left office. A mega-powerful, mega-influential president is forced to resign in disgrace and....... he does. No tanks, no riots, no wholesale slaughter of innocents. It was worth losing a president just to prove that we could. Show me a Socialist country where that could ever happen.

i think it could, look at the netherlands, for example. your example about nixon is intriguing, however. most of the same people who would say socialism is "evil" would also lament nixon. you hold the experience up as a strength of democracy (btw - i don't think socialism and democracy are mutually exclusive). this is pretty progressive thinking, something i must chew on...

You got one thing wrong. It's Europe's dick up his ass.

europe has a dick? is it italy?

Because Americans suck at socialism. We don't approach it like Europeans.

Too many Americans think socialism is about "what I get." The reality is that socialism is about "what I give up, to give to those that don't have."

And, right now, we do have mega-socialism in the US.

We have people -- single adult households even without kids -- having their rent paid for and countless other things. This is quite in contrast to most European nations. We provide illegal immigrants with state services, whereas most European nations would deny such services, let alone the state does not tolerate an endless barrage of lawyers in the courts like here in the US.

We've already screwed up our healthcare system to the point it's as far from "private" as you can get. It's more "fascist" economic model than anything. Socialized medicine in the US would be just as fucked up as we've managed to fuck up alleged "private."

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Americans really want to go socialist, we should get countless European leaders over here to give us the "smack in the face" we need. Socialism is not about paying for your car and your mortgage.

Socialism is about feeding and caring for those who don't even have such.

i think your first sentence nails this - you don't approach it like europeans, and that's the difference. perhaps, and i mean no disrespect in all honesty, americans are entrenched in a particular way of thinking about socialism that is unproductive and unrealistic? if there was greater understanding about the separation between socialism and communism, for example, americans would be more open?

 

[boobfan]

Re: Simple ...

Because Americans suck at socialism. We don't approach it like Europeans.

Too many Americans think socialism is about "what I get." The reality is that socialism is about "what I give up, to give to those that don't have."

And, right now, we do have mega-socialism in the US.

We have people -- single adult households even without kids -- having their rent paid for and countless other things. This is quite in contrast to most European nations. We provide illegal immigrants with state services, whereas most European nations would deny such services, let alone the state does not tolerate an endless barrage of lawyers in the courts like here in the US.

We've already screwed up our healthcare system to the point it's as far from "private" as you can get. It's more "fascist" economic model than anything. Socialized medicine in the US would be just as fucked up as we've managed to fuck up alleged "private."

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Americans really want to go socialist, we should get countless European leaders over here to give us the "smack in the face" we need. Socialism is not about paying for your car and your mortgage.

Socialism is about feeding and caring for those who don't even have such.

No, that is communism and that FAILS!
The reason that those programs exist for non-citizens are communist politicians who have been put in office running as Democratic candidates.

 

[CADDYMAN]

We need to stop trying to help the rest of the world and start helping america

bring our troops home and leave just enough to evacuate our embassys

Start doing something other than throwing away money on everything from corperate welfare/bailouts and foreign aide

We do need some form of healthcare for US citizens so companies can afford to operate in this country and without this everything will be made elsewhere

A service based nation will end up failing miserably and it seems to me its both the republicans and democrats inching toward this goal

 

[Member2019]

We need to stop trying to help the rest of the world and start helping america
bring our troops home and leave just enough to evacuate our embassys

But how does that provide for the resource protection of petroleum and other resources?

You do understand that is exactly what the US "inherited" when it crossed the British and French in the Suez Incident of 1956, correct? The US directly threatened to destroy the British currency and economy if it did not cease it's operations to secure the Suez canal and its real, strategic interests.

And the rest is a great deal of history.

I'd like nothing more for the US to "pull back to the Americas," put its resources into improving the Americas, and putting people like Chavez in their place if we're going to "take action" on any foreign entity and "get beat up" for doing it. But that's unlikely to happen. We'll keep pissing off everyone worldwide, instead of just the Americans (which was all we largely did prior to WWII).

Start doing something other than throwing away money on everything from corperate welfare/bailouts and foreign aide

And yet, if we don't prop up our banks, the US dollar collapses. What does that do for us?

I don't disagree we were stupid to even get to that point. But the reality is, we are at that point. That's the problem.

We do need some form of healthcare for US citizens so companies can afford to operate in this country and without this everything will be made elsewhere

And yet, the cost of healthcare just shifts from one entity to another. How does that "solve" the problem again?

A service based nation will end up failing miserably and it seems to me its both the republicans and democrats inching toward this goal

I don't disagree with this at all. But I don't understand what you are proposing?

In reality, the pro-consumer laws in this country are killing us. That we don't equally penalize other nations that place tariffs on our exports on their imports into our nation is rather dumbfounding.

If there is only one thing I agreed with the "Big Three" and even the UAW in the hearings a few months back, it's that fact. That they are penalized by our own government. I'm anti-tariff, but not at the expense that we don't equalize the playing field on tariffs.

 

[Will E Worm]

Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude .

America is a Constitutional Republic.

Democracy is indispensable to socialism. Vladimir Lenin

Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx

Also I have been to Bosina with the US Army as part of the UN force

That was an illegal move. America shouldn't be working with or along side the UN. The American military should never be placed under the control of the UN or any foriegn commander.

Michael New

On October 10, 1995, the 1/15 Battalion of the 3rd infantry Division of the U.S. Army came to attention at 0900 in Schweinfurt, Germany. All but one of the 550 soldiers were wearing a sky-blue baseball-style cap with a United Nations insignia on the front. One was wearing the olive-drab flat cap that is authorized to be worn with the Battle Dress Uniform. With this simple act of disobeying a direct order, Spc. 4 Michael New set the stage for a legal battle that has profound implications for the future of American soldiers into service of the United Nations without the constitutional permission of Congress.

 

[bustybbwlover]

cuz we don't understand it, also it's the boogie man

 

[Red Spyder]

Afraid, not exactly afraid, but I personally don't want America to become like the Soviet Union, East Germany, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, Communist China (even though right now they're more capitalist than we are but what about freedom of speech?) how much prosperity AND freedom is there in those countries? You want socialism? The door is wide open, go ahead and move to Cuba.

I do believe in equality, equality of opportunity, equality before the law, but not in equality of outcome. I mean, do you think it's fair that a person who invested in him/herself by staying in school, going to college, taking a risk by opening a business or getting a well paid career should make the same as someone who dropped out and ended up working minimum wage at a corner store? I don't.

Mark Levine said it right, this country may become a "soft tyranny"

 

[D-rock]

Socialism IS a political system where the government controls all aspects of the economy that IS the problem with it. The second problem is people who do not know that is what socialism is.
The US Government currently only provides 1 'service' to Americans our mail via the U.S. post office. We do not want our banks and financial institutions run with the waste and inefficiency of the post office. We do not want the Government taking control of OUR money and spending it for us or even just telling us how we can spend it assuming they will let us have money. We really do not want our government controlling all means of production nor do we want them in direct control of our utilities.

Yeah, because placing those things and more in the trust of corporations who look after us and have our best interest at heart has been so much better.

 

[Member2019]

Yeah, because placing those things and more in the trust of corporations who look after us and have our best interest at heart has been so much better.

And yet ...

You'd rather put all that power in the hands of the same people who make laws? Corporations bend laws, yes. Money always does. But really, dude?

What really smacks me even more silly is how many people want to send all the power to the US federal government, instead of trying to keep it more state or local.

Send the money to the same entity that can declare war? Among other things?

That right there is why most Americans are "fucked up" on socialism. We've had a full generation that never grew up with the concept of "states' rights," which has become a "bad word" because of the '60s (and 1860s before that).

The Obama administration re-affirmed my worst fears on that in the DHS report recently. It's the only one thing about African-Americans in leadership that scares me to death, even if I completely understand why they feel such (because such rights were used to deny their rights in the past).

 

[Facetious]

Re: Why are Americans so afraid of Socialism?

Because The People in a socialist society essentially become a ward of the state and are forced by the strong hand of govt to do what the govt feels is best.

Second - Hitler was a Socialist !!!!!!!!! :1orglaugh :eek: e.g. nazi , SS

 

[Facetious]

edit

 

[meesterperfect]

And yet ...

You'd rather put all that power in the hands of the same people who make laws? Corporations bend laws, yes. Money always does. But really, dude?

What really smacks me even more silly is how many people want to send all the power to the US federal government, instead of trying to keep it more state or local.

Send the money to the same entity that can declare war? Among other things?

That right there is why most Americans are "fucked up" on socialism. We've had a full generation that never grew up with the concept of "states' rights," which has become a "bad word" because of the '60s (and 1860s before that).

The Obama administration re-affirmed my worst fears on that in the DHS report recently. It's the only one thing about African-Americans in leadership that scares me to death, even if I completely understand why they feel such (because such rights were used to deny their rights in the past).

yeah prof i agree with you there with the states rights concept.
little by little everthing has gone/is going federal.

and of your last statement. arte you a racist?
(sarcasm, I figured I be the first).
the past is the past, now is now.

 

[marquis2]

There are two things I notice with many Americans.
One is that Socialism is bad.
Two is that government is bad.
These seem to be the bedrock of any discussion.They are just solid assumptions which are pursued with almost religious fervour.That they are flawed doesn't seem to enter people's heads.That they are downright mistaken seems unthinkable.
Socialism is a bit like alcohol;in small amounts it's beneficial but if taken too liberally it takes over.You must not become dependent on it but use the good points to enhance your lives.Free medical provision for example(it's already been noted that service veterans rate military medicine (purely socialist) very highly.I have enjoyed "free" medical provision-today I had a consultation and treatment for nothing just by making an appointment.I didn't have to check my bank balance beforehand or delay seeking advice because of the cost. Neither do I have to pay ridiculous insurance premiums.
Government can be good,bad or indifferent. But you only have to see the improvement in everyday life enjoyed by ordinary people to see what can be brought about.These wouldn't have happened without government involvement and no modern state could survive with the "small government" so beloved by posters.This is Planet Earth after all.

 

[wingman00]

Second - Hitler was a Socialist !!!!!!!!! :1orglaugh :eek: e.g. nazi , SS

I think he made clear that he wasn't on the night of the long knives

(not that that makes socialism any better)

 

[wingman00]

even if you have socialism in very moderate form (like a social democratic government) it's a very inefficient way to run a society.

I think that many Americans don't see that it doesn't have to be socialism in order to have welfare.
a historic example:
Otto Von Bismarck introduced welfare to Germany, you can't accuse him of being a socialist.

 

[marquis2]

I think he made clear that he wasn't on the night of the long knives

(not that that makes socialism any better)

He could well be regarded as such, he was the head of the National Socialist Party , he hated big business and did much to raise living standards for ordinary people.In the UK he was disliked more by the Conservatives than by Labour.

 

[girk1]

What really smacks me even more silly is how many people want to send all the power to the US federal government, instead of trying to keep it more state or local.

That right there is why most Americans are "fucked up" on socialism. We've had a full generation that never grew up with the concept of "states' rights," which has become a "bad word" because of the '60s (and 1860s before that).

The Obama administration re-affirmed my worst fears on that in the DHS report recently. It's the only one thing about African-Americans in leadership that scares me to death, even if I completely understand why they feel such (because such rights were used to deny their rights in the past).

The DHS report warned about Left-wing extremists also ,but I don't hear MANY on the left complaining about the report:dunno: Maybe because the 'Left' doesn't have so many paranoid & angry constituents(see Mccain/Palin rallies) is the reason they haven't whined like the 'Right' about the DHS report.

Maybe it's the fact that States have abused their power & inflicted some of the worst Human rights abuses of the past two ceturies(Slavery,Jim Crow,etc.......) requiring the government to step in to basically save these United States on several occasions. The government had to intervene in certain backward States that had the US teetering on self destruction & or least threatening to undermine the US integrity/moral authority throughout the world.


Maybe Comedienne Janine Garafalo(spelling?) was correct when she says that MANY of the bitter 'Teabagging Rednecks' :1orglaugh were really disappointed/upset that they have a Black man in the White House. At least you Prof. Voluptuary are proud enough to admit this disapointment in having a Black President as you hide behind your porn alias.