What is your view on the trump wall between usa and mexico

Mayhem

Banned
Guys, Guys. Take this from someone whose country HAD a wall:

It did not prevent crossings back then, and with today's technology, it is a failed idea. Plus: It is not buidable, and people won't give up the land for those stretches it would have to take because the actual borderline is not fit for building on

The wall concept is an image, easy to grasp for dim-witted people.

Exactly. The Berlin Wall - failed in it's strategic goals, considered a joke, made the people who built it look like fools, finally demolished after all the expense that went into it.
The Great Wall of China - failed in it's strategic goals, cost several fortunes and manpower that was needed elsewhere, reduced to a tourist attraction which is the only way to get the investment back.

Walls are stupid and the bigger you make it, the stupider you look.
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
It will never be built so the whole question is moot. We do, however, need to control our borders. That's a whole other thread.
 
It will never be built so the whole question is moot.

If the question is moot, what if the answer is moat, as in a flaming one, along with the aforementioned alligators?

Walls are stupid and don't work but it's worked pretty well for Israel in the West Bank. That's just an old-fashioned physical barrier. And the suicide bus bombings went from an epidemic to virtually zero overnight.

Yes, the West Bank isn't the southern U.S. border, but Mexico is gonna pay for that bad boy. And like it. Mexico's Presidente has already agreed to meet with Trump. I think he's skerd.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...

Mayhem

Banned
It will never be built so the whole question is moot. We do, however, need to control our borders. That's a whole other thread.

Well, y'know, if you're going to get right to the point....:)

Again, "look-down" drones. We love drones. We can't get enough of them. Build 'em.

And again...this saves us money by working better. You don't have to respond with actual officers. Spot them, and either reduce altitude or send in a whole 'nother drone. Nice low pass flyby, "Hi guys, we see you. Turn around please." And drop them some fucking canteens. It's hot out there.

At operational altitude you're seeing God knows how many miles into Mexico, so it's not like we have to spot them on the first pass. Thermal, infrared, motion detecting. These are all the things we are good at. And they are, by orders of magnitude, less expensive than this ego trip that Trump insists on.

Walls are too expensive for what little you get out of them. And especially in the soil conditions along the border, they're going to go under it. Repeatedly.

Show me one wall in history that actually worked against a determined, resourceful foe. Some of you need to remote from "Desperate Dancing with Surviving Housewives" over to the History Channel and start the long road to educating yourselves.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I'm for any practical and effective means of securing and controlling our borders. But I don't see the wall as entirely practical or effective. I can't say that I'm completely opposed to it though. I'm just more for other things that I believe would be more practical and effective.

Trump's poorly worded original speech on this issue created resistance that didn't need to be created. While it threw red meat to certain people, it also gave ammunition to those who were more for open borders, and even those who were just offended by his characterization of an entire group of people. As in many cases, Trump makes it VERY hard to agree with him much of the time... even when his overall position isn't so far from your own position (though for different reasons). He would have done much better by creating a distinct, hard line between economic, illegal immigrants and the criminals who are coming here to prey on our society. Day laborers, etc., who come here to work on construction projects or work in third tier factories are one thing. There is an economic benefit, and also a social cost, to having them here. But they're just people looking for a better life. I don't begrudge them their desire to live better, although I don't agree with them taking advantage of our lack of immigration controls. But now, members of MS-13, La Eme and/or the various cartels are something entirely different. Those are the people that Donald "Shoot From the Hip" Trump should have picked out of the crowd and made clear that he was talking about. They are parasites. They are scum. There should be no sanctuary cities for them. The current administration has shown no willingness (or spine) to deal with the immense and growing gang problem in the U.S. All Obama seems to know how to do is call for more gun control when a gang member shoots an innocent child in the head. The left and the right kowtow to their respective bases entirely too much, IMO.

Anyway, I don't know anymore. Our do nothing Congress doesn't seem to be able to tackle any serious issue. Let there be a baseball player who is charged with taking steroids and they'll hold hearings about that for six months. But immigration reform, infrastructure budgeting or international narco-terrorism... they'll go on break faster than a Walmart employee with a customer walking toward her.

One thing I am for is crippling fines for companies that hire illegals, knowingly or not ("plausible deniability" would no longer be a defense). Another is removing birthright citizenship for tourists and illegal aliens from the Constitution. I believe the U.S. and Canada are the only remaining developed nations that still have that. Anchor babies (and their mothers), that are entitled to dwindling social services, should be no more. While it may be nice to provide free housing, food, health care, educations and SSI payments to poor and downtrodden illegal immigrants, when the federal budget can't support the people who are here legally, a good heart does not make up for an empty wallet. I'm sorry, but it doesn't.

As for the criminal gangs, I've advocated for many years (20+ years) treating them as terrorists. I was engaged to a woman from Peru many years ago and I saw what the narco-terrorists of the Shining Path did to her nation. Unlike the Shining Path, the criminal gangs that plague our cities have no real political aims. But they do have an aim of securing and controlling territory, that will allow them to sell drugs and traffic in humans in order to maximize profits. I would treat them no different from members of ISIS or Al Qaeda. In addition to the crippling fines for employers of illegals, unlike Bush and Obama playing footsie with money laundering banks, I would also see money center bank CEOs and CFOs arrested and hauled into court. And I would see the fines that the banks are hit with also be crippling. No more paying pitty-patty fines. I guarantee you from personal knowledge, you make a bank's CEO do the perp walk in steel bracelets, and that bullshit will stop!

A big ol' wall? :dunno: I think Trump just spouts out what he thinks people want to hear. Just my opinion. But I see no national political will to really get that done. I think, even if he were to win, it's just a fantasy.
 
The first group that should be deported are criminal illegal aliens already incarcerated.

It would be easy to have them ordered deported by a judge and we already know where they are and they make up a large part of our prison population. We could also save a few bucks for the taxpayer.

Let's start there.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I don't disagree with that at all. The question is, how do we keep them out? As long as they promised to come back here, Mexico would probably release them as soon as they got off the prison bus. I wonder if they still have copies of the maps showing the best routes to sneak into the U.S.? Remember those from back in the early 2000's? Someone tried to tell me that wasn't true. But one of the managers where I worked then was a Mexican national (legal, of course) and he showed me one.

There are days when I feel like a Roman living in the year 450 A.D. +/-.
 
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