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What If Mitt And Jeb Really Do Go At It, Hammer And Tongs?

Mayhem

Banned
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...tt-and-jeb-really-do-go-at-it-hammer-and-tong

Pity the poor guys who are trying to run for president while still serving as governors.

All the media attention this week went to former Govs. Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush, because Romney suddenly decided to call in his chits and get back in the presidential conversation for 2016. Virtually every news organization in North America instantly got wide-eyed about it.

Meanwhile, governors like Chris Christie in New Jersey and Scott Walker in Wisconsin and Mike Pence in Indiana were delivering their State of the State speeches Tuesday and hoping for a little national media love, as well. And that's not to mention other govs such as John Kasich in Ohio and Bobby Jindal in Louisiana.

But the focus was on names from the past: Romney and Bush.

Nor was there much bandwidth for the various senators and others who are running or wishing someone would ask them to run. In the media space, all these names were scarcely to be found.

How distracting was the Romney bombshell? Well, if the man is serious, and follows through, it will change fundamentally the nature of the GOP primaries next year. And that alters all the odds on White House occupancy two years hence.

Let's review the bidding. Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, now says he wants to reprise his 2012 role as the GOP nominee for the White House — and not just as a fallback candidate in the absence of a fresher center-right alternative. Romney is now, in fact, defying the alternative that has emerged in former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush. Romney, it turns out, isn't satisfied with the Bush option, just as Bush was not prepared to sit back and wait for Romney to step in.

Romney may have seen some of the polls and focus groups showing that independent voters (and some Republicans) are highly averse to another Bush in the White House — or another Clinton, for that matter.

Yet Jeb Bush seems equally convinced that Romney is not the man to prevent the election of Hillary Clinton.

This sudden clash of dynastic scions is both unexpected and, in certain quarters, unwelcome. That's because Romney's prior claim on the deeper pockets of the party, and many of its most seasoned operatives, conflicts with that of the party's reigning dynasty. (It should be noted that the last time the Republicans won the White House without someone named Bush on the ticket was in 1972.)

All this makes a pretty irresistible story. We had largely written Mitt off — a year ago he was still responding to questions about 2016 by saying no. Not once, but 11 times in one quote in The New York Times. (Aside: Four or five would have made the point; double digits smacks of protesting too much.) Even as he crisscrossed the country campaigning for other Republicans in 2014, Romney deflected questions about his own future. Older and wiser, he knew it was time for someone else. Or so it seemed.

Just a week ago, establishment Republicans were congratulating themselves on having an odds-on 2016 favorite in Bush — someone who could suppress the Tea Party and its roster of obstreperous populist upstarts. Party stalwarts were mentally reassembling the Bush team of money people and policy people. From there it would be paint-by-the-numbers, collect the nomination and sally forth to slay the dragon — or in this case the lady dragon, likely Democratic nominee Clinton.

A week ago Bush's only real rival in the establishment wing of the party seemed to be Christie, the often-embattled governor of New Jersey, who has spent the past year dealing with one image problem after another from bridge closures to Cowboy clinches.

But now, it seems the old warrior in Mitt is spoiling for a fight, or at least for talking about one. He had a lot of positive reinforcement on the hustings this fall. It seemed as though the nation was awake to his message, and maybe to his persona too. The ship didn't come in for him in 2008 or 2012, but was suddenly visible on the horizon. And, he reports, his once reluctant first lady, Ann, has acceded to another campaign.

And there was something else, something very much like needling coming from none other than Jeb Bush himself. The Floridian took several swipes at the weak points of Romney's 2012 campaign — the failure to maneuver around the issue of personal wealth and the lack of outreach to Hispanics, women and young people.

All this might have recalled the hard feelings between the two men three years ago, when Romney was trying to lay claim to the 2012 GOP nomination. Going into the critical primary in Florida, he badly needed a boost from the popular former governor to hold off the challenge from former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

It might have been quite natural for Jeb Bush to embrace Romney at the time, as many others in the party hierarchy were doing. The two men had served as governors together in the previous decade, and Romney had wooed his former colleague assiduously. And there was that old bad blood between Gingrich and the first President Bush in the 1990s.

In 2012, however, Jeb Bush remained stubbornly aloof. The official line was that neutrality was best for the party and the state. But was Bush ambivalent about Romney? Was he thinking a failed Romney candidacy would create an open convention that summer, a convention that might turn to him? Or was he unwilling to take sides and anger the party's the more conservative core voters — people he might need later on?

It is unlikely that Romney has forgotten being held at arm's length in this way.

Both he and Jeb Bush have a sense of mission inherited from their fathers (Romney's was governor of Michigan and briefly a presidential aspirant in the 1960s). That is a personal burden that can bring men together. It is also an obsession that can set them on a collision course.

One thing is clear at this juncture. If both men run, they become each other's first hurdle. Both will also need to deal with Christie, to prevent any establishment assets from being siphoned off in that direction. All three of these center-right candidates will need to focus first on each other, rather than on the base-oriented conservatives who will be vying to challenge them from the right.

In short, what had been a predictable contest has now the potential to be a far more volatile and intriguing test of the character and direction of the Republican Party in our time.


Jeebus, this is going to be a sloooow motion trainwreck. Romney, Bush and Christie in a circle jerk, with Ted Cruz shooting off his mouth the whole time. That's going to be one crazee fuckin' Etch-A-Sketch. "An intriguing test of character and direction." Two things the current GOP has in staggeringly short supply.

I'm still praying hourly that Elizabeth Warren gets into the race. But if she doesn't, we're just going to have to armor plate our jock straps and prepare for a Hillary White House. And yes, I just vomited in my mouth a little too.
 
Mit is a moderate. Just got rich like any other politician who are well off to compete in today national elections.

Jeb is just trying to ride the Bush name.

Mit's mistake was bowing into the Tea Party influence in 2012 instead of speaking his true stand like he did in Mass as a rare GOP GOV in a blue state that was the first to past health care for all. Paul Ryan Tea Party rhetoric sunk him as moderates said leave Obama in charge.
 
Can't wait to see the cast of goofballs the Dems run. Hillary may be the front runner for the Dems but there is going to be plenty of comedy coming out of the Democrat debates. I will not vote for Jeb Bush even if he is the nominee. It will be the first time I ever sit out a presidential election. I'm willing to consider the rest of the names being thrown out there right now.
 

Little Red Wagon Repairman

Step in my shop and I'll fix yours too.
I don't see any strong leaders from either side of the fence. Most seem like they've been bought and paid for already. If you're on the left maybe go with Elizabeth Warren unless you favor politics over issues then place your chips on Hillary to win. I'm on the Conservative side maybe looking at Rand Paul but I don't have much enthusiasm for him either. I won't cross the street to vote for Bush or Romney.
 

BlkHawk

Closed Account
I don't know who they are polling, everyone I have spoken to is dead set against either of them running, same with Hillary. This is rapidly shaping up to be one crapola of a campaign, hopefully someone remotly decent steps up.
 

Mayhem

Banned
Can't wait to see the cast of goofballs the Dems run. Hillary may be the front runner for the Dems but there is going to be plenty of comedy coming out of the Democrat debates.

I don't know who they are polling, everyone I have spoken to is dead set against either of them running, same with Hillary. This is rapidly shaping up to be one crapola of a campaign, hopefully someone remotly decent steps up.

I can gloat at the GOP, and Lord knows I'm going too. But you're both right. Unless Lizzy runs I have no idea who the Left has to get excited about.
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Bernie Sanders has my vote should he decide to run. Of course there will be a litany of far right clown shoes in the GOP primary, where they will torpedo any chance they have of running a decent candidate.
 
xfire;8789253[B said:
]Bernie Sanders[/B] has my vote should he decide to run. Of course there will be a litany of far right clown shoes in the GOP primary, where they will torpedo any chance they have of running a decent candidate.

What? I know you are liberal/progressive but Saunders borders on Communist and is an admitted socialist.
 
Do you know anything about him, other than the labels?

Yeah, I actually watch interviews with him and not rely on media accounts. He is fringe and I say so because he has been a member of some very radical organizations starting during Vietnam . He's kinda out there.
 

Mayhem

Banned
Bernie Sanders has my vote should he decide to run. Of course there will be a litany of far right clown shoes in the GOP primary, where they will torpedo any chance they have of running a decent candidate.

I had to look up Saunders because I'm only vaguely familiar with him. He sounds like my kind of candidate.

We've discussed lately the confusion of Republican/Democrat during the civil rights struggle of the 1960s. In the same vein the term "Socialist" doesn't seem to have much meaning. In an historical context, it has been used to describe the far Right as often as it has the fringe Left.

And he was a member of ONE somewhat radical organization devoted to the end of the Vietnam War. Well, any peacenik movement of that time was deemed radical. And you can either applaud those who tried to get us out of a war we now know we shouldn't have been in, or we can disregard what some guy in his 20s did while he was in his 20s. At this late date, I just can't summon the energy to get too worked up about that much distant past.
 
Alright guys..I'm not going to argue Bernie Saunders. Vote for who you want to. He does seem like a nice enough guy, just not someone I could vote for in my lifetime. Don't want to hear anything about Ted Cruz after this revelation.
 

Mayhem

Banned
:D Oh, you're going to be hearing about Ted Cruz. As much as I'm going to hear about Cruz, that's how much that I'm going to be bringing him up. For as long as Sam I Am Cruz is in office, and burdening me with his existence, I'll be paying him as much attention as he asks for.

You can relieve yourself of some of the burden I place on your existence by just getting him on the phone and telling him that he's make things a lot easier for the FreeOnes Political section if he's kindly stick a sock in it. :thumbsup:
 
Don't forget Herman Cain! I would love to see him get back in the game. While he hasn't announced anything yet, he hasn't ruled anything out either, and he does have a very likeable side to him. Plus Republicans (at least temporarily) are going after the minority vote, and with Obama out and no serious non-white Dem running (so far), candidates like Cruz & Cain could be highly coveted.

Mitt already had his chance, and while Christie could play the "Sandy" card, he already has the George Washington Bridge scandal which is too recent to forget. And you can bet Jeb will pull out all the stops to avenge his daddy against the Clintons should Hilary get the nom.

So, what are your guys':
A) Expected Presidential Race
and
B) "Dream" Presidential Race


I'd go with:
A) Jeb Bush vs Hilary Clinton
B) Herman Cain vs Bill Clinton (First Black Republican Candidate vs the First Black Democrat Candidate)
 
:D Oh, you're going to be hearing about Ted Cruz. As much as I'm going to hear about Cruz, that's how much that I'm going to be bringing him up. For as long as Sam I Am Cruz is in office, and burdening me with his existence, I'll be paying him as much attention as he asks for.

You can relieve yourself of some of the burden I place on your existence by just getting him on the phone and telling him that he's make things a lot easier for the FreeOnes Political section if he's kindly stick a sock in it. :thumbsup:

That's fine. And is expected. James Carville called him the most fearless republican politician since Reagan. Alan Dershowitz said that he was one of the most brilliant students he has ever had. So Cruz can be Sam I Am.. and Warren can be Little Miss Pocahontas. I hope Cruz runs because demonizing him won't do anything but make me and those that are in my camp want to vote for him more. All the while your side support the likes of Warren and Saunders. Please nominate them. Seriously
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Yeah, I actually watch interviews with him and not rely on media accounts. He is fringe and I say so because he has been a member of some very radical organizations starting during Vietnam . He's kinda out there.

That's the same sort of programmed rhetoric you hear from the fringe right about any Democrat. Sanders is an unapologetic liberal, no doubt, you want to call him a "socialist", go ahead, we live in a mixed economy, have for decades and that label applies as much to the GOP as it does to any Democrat or Liberal. Trying to compare Bernie Sanders to Ted Cruz is at best laughable, at worst it illustrates just how far one would have to sink to try to equivocate their loonies with the oppositions solid candidates.
 
That's the same sort of programmed rhetoric you hear from the fringe right about any Democrat. Sanders is an unapologetic liberal, no doubt, you want to call him a "socialist", go ahead, we live in a mixed economy, have for decades and that label applies as much to the GOP as it does to any Democrat or Liberal. Trying to compare Bernie Sanders to Ted Cruz is at best laughable, at worst it illustrates just how far one would have to sink to try to equivocate their loonies with the oppositions solid candidates.

Yes comparing Cruz to Saunders is laughable. You probably need to get your head around the fact that Cruz is probably going to run and he is going to do well. There is a groundswell of support for him in the conservative ranks. Kinda getting tired of you making assumptions about what conservatives do or don't know about your democrat hopefuls. I have been paying attention to Saunders for many years and unlike some, I actually pay attention to the opposition and what they say and do. Saunders is an unapologetic socialist, that is a fact. Look, I know liberals don't like Cruz and the demonization is already starting because he is a threat. I don't feel threatened by Weekend at Bernie because he is unelectable. But like I said earlier, I really don't care who your side runs or nominates, I am going to focus on getting the best nominee our party can offer and hopefully that nominee this time around is a conservative and not from the mushy middle.
 
We cannot afford another Texan as president they seem to do far more harm than good.
My hope is Ted Cruz is striken with horrible health and vanishes.
 
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