What about Jeruslum
- Thread starter humming20
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Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Maybe they could wall Jerusalem off into halves....one Judeo-Christian and one Muslim. That idea worked real well in Berlin so why not give it a try?
NOT!
There's no easy answer. Jerusalem is not the root cause of the conflict but it is certainly a central icon. None of the options presented in the poll really excite me as the ultimate answer. There will be trouble there no matter what is done.
Sad but true I'm afraid.
NOT!
There's no easy answer. Jerusalem is not the root cause of the conflict but it is certainly a central icon. None of the options presented in the poll really excite me as the ultimate answer. There will be trouble there no matter what is done.
Sad but true I'm afraid.
Go to Palestine? how so? Palestine is miles away from Jerusalem and Jerusalem is in the center of Israel, how do you suppose Palestinians will travel from Palestine to Jerusalem? through Israeli territory? yeah, that'll work.
Why should Palestine have Jerusalem anyway? every muslim and christian in the world wants it, why should Palestine get it? why not Jordan or Lebanon or Spain, for that matter? Heck, Jordan is closer to Jerusalem than Palestine.
You say there is no easy answer, I say the answer is the easiest it could be: Jerusalem belongs to Israel until someone takes over it in war, much like Israel did to have it when it didnt belong to them.
The middle-east is war-infected, you cant swoop in with your UN and your morale and think you can settle age-old wars with negotiation. Yes, it is a warzone, and it has been for the past 5000 years, I don't see how your UN will change it, ever.
Why should Palestine have Jerusalem anyway? every muslim and christian in the world wants it, why should Palestine get it? why not Jordan or Lebanon or Spain, for that matter? Heck, Jordan is closer to Jerusalem than Palestine.
You say there is no easy answer, I say the answer is the easiest it could be: Jerusalem belongs to Israel until someone takes over it in war, much like Israel did to have it when it didnt belong to them.
The middle-east is war-infected, you cant swoop in with your UN and your morale and think you can settle age-old wars with negotiation. Yes, it is a warzone, and it has been for the past 5000 years, I don't see how your UN will change it, ever.
Israel belongs to us all. Everyone wants to live in the 'promised land'.. but all that fighting has pretty much ***** the whole concept of such a land null. You always have to deal with 'actual' terrorists, always hafta defend what you have.. and what is it, really.. that they have? Does the land feel spiritual and alive? Are you fulfilled being at the center of 'civilized' (lol) religion's origin?
Anyhow, home is where you make it. Fight for it, if you want. I believe that if they gave the land over to anyone else, they'd still be fighting elsewhere. **** runs deep.
Anyhow, home is where you make it. Fight for it, if you want. I believe that if they gave the land over to anyone else, they'd still be fighting elsewhere. **** runs deep.
1. ***** everyone to move away & level the city. May sound harsh, but it's the easiest way to prevent people to fight over it (as it's no longer there). (easiest option)
2. Make it an independent city state with it's own head of state & it's own parliament. To prevent trouble, 1/4 of the parliament would be occupied by muslim political parties, 1/4 by jewish political parties, 1/4 by Christian political parties & the last 1/4 by independent/non religious political parties.
The government would have to be formed by the largest political parties of each group. (the nearly impossible to achieve, but humanitarian option)
2. Make it an independent city state with it's own head of state & it's own parliament. To prevent trouble, 1/4 of the parliament would be occupied by muslim political parties, 1/4 by jewish political parties, 1/4 by Christian political parties & the last 1/4 by independent/non religious political parties.
The government would have to be formed by the largest political parties of each group. (the nearly impossible to achieve, but humanitarian option)
:dunno:
Jerusalem used to be in Palestine - Israel used to be palestine, East Jerusalem was controlled by Jordan till 1967. The west bank is meters away from jerusalem.... I'd post a link to a map but I think you get my point...:thumbsup:
As for taking it by ***** being the only answer - maybe your right...but I seriously doubt it
At least you acknowledge 5000 years of conflict - I'd like to think of it as 8000 but hey....progress is progress
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There's no solution to this.
Both have reasons to get the city for them and if the city is neutral andcontroled by the UN, The UN boys will soon be trapped like USA are in Baghdad
But in thinks jews have more rights in the city than others : Muslims have othe sacred place and sopme of them are more important than Jerusalem. To jews, Jerusalem is the one sacred city.
Both have reasons to get the city for them and if the city is neutral andcontroled by the UN, The UN boys will soon be trapped like USA are in Baghdad
But in thinks jews have more rights in the city than others : Muslims have othe sacred place and sopme of them are more important than Jerusalem. To jews, Jerusalem is the one sacred city.
all i know is that jerusalem is where it will all end one day. so it doesnt matter what happens to the city now.
True but only arabs (muslims and christians but mostly muslims) leave near the sacred temples and the Western Wall, meaning they completely control the sacred area of the city. Jews can still visit the Western Wall but its not exactly the safest place to be, if you make the wrong turn you end up in the old city, meaning you might end up dead.
:dunno:
Jerusalem used to be in Palestine - Israel used to be palestine, East Jerusalem was controlled by Jordan till 1967. The west bank is meters away from jerusalem.... I'd post a link to a map but I think you get my point...:thumbsup:
As for taking it by ***** being the only answer - maybe your right...but I seriously doubt it
At least you acknowledge 5000 years of conflict - I'd like to think of it as 8000 but hey....progress is progress
Historically, pretty much every empire ever controlled Jerusalem.
I actually do think taking it by ***** is the only solution since no one can solve this, this war is older than anything on the planet, and its sure as hell older than USA and Americans who think they have the right to call the shots and act all superior as if the Middle East is **** who need their guidance, but I digress.
8000 years? as far as I know the bible starts 5000 years ago. Jerusalem is 3000 years old, by the way.
Not entirely true...
Israel proclaimed it as it's capital in the 50's, but most countries still don't officially recognise it...
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It'd be the same as the Dutch claiming that New York is our capital (we founded (SP?) the city). I doubt the US would recognise it as the dutch capital (but we (the dutch) don't have an army with which to conquer it either...).
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
By Steve Earle you mean? If so, I agree....great song. Everyone should hear it.
:glugglug:
As much as we Americans are chastized, we are probably the greatest historical representation of people who didn't give a flying fuck, and still don't give a flying fuck, about where we live. This nation was founded on, and is still based upon, getting away from people who don't want to co-exist -- especially in historical pieces of land that actually have little value.
And we welcome everyone who thinks that way -- from 400 years ago through today.
And we welcome everyone who thinks that way -- from 400 years ago through today.
There was actually some progress in the soccer this summer, the idol of the arab world moved to Maccabi Haifa (you know them, they're playing Liverpool).
I guess the area doesnt trust the UN because of bad experiences with middle-men in the past. between WWI and WWII the brits ruled this area and they tried to be the middle-man but, inevitabely, they were biased, shifting from one side to another, and in the long-run they caused alot of damage to the area.
I actually said "your UN" for 2 reasons: we dont have much representation in the UN (if at all) and I was trying to be sarcastic and exaggerate.
I knew you were going to go there.Gulp... dare I say it... gulp... what do the plains Indians have to say about that?
The thing is, I wasn't, and you missed my point.
People weren't claiming America for historical reasons or anything else than it was available.
Unfortunately, and you are correct, there was a serious overlook of the original natives.
Although the history is rather interesting and not as "clear-cut" as people make it.
Prior to being called Jerusalem, it was called Jebus and inhabited by the Jebusites.... Last time I was in Jerusalem it was as it has been for years -the Arab and Christian/Armenian Quarters where completely cut off from the Jewish quarter. More recently the surounding Arab neighborhoods are being destroyed or cut off by a giant concrete wall. The history of the Levant and its indegenous inhabitants (their descendents being the Jews and Palestinians and others of today) Is in fact 8,000 years old ranging back to prebiblical history...
Proof? One of the, if not the oldest continously inhabited city on earth is Jericho in Palestine... Jericho is 8,000 years old. Incidentally, recent archeological findings by Israel Finklestien found that there were never any walls built in Jericho... I guess they never came tumbling down....:1orglaugh
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the UK and it was not in a fair fight that they won the said area.All this area was the part of the Empire and as a reward they setteled the jews in pelestinian area.It is strange why didn't they give them some other area from their own country (not a colony but country i.e UK).Anyway now i don't say that **** all the jews or drive them out , i am not anti semetic but what i suggest that they should go back to the pre 1967 borders.
