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US pledge of allegiance and "under god" poll part 2

If atheists became the majority in the future it would be fair if they?


  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .
Ok first let me thank everyone for participating.
Part 2 is for the folks who answered "YES" to the question in part 1.I guess anyone who would have replied yes can also answer here in part 2 but I am particulary interested and hopefull that those who responded "YES" in part 1 will respond to part 2 .Just to refresh your memories here was how you all voted in part 1.

Yes since the majority wants it. 27 65.85%
No in order to be fair to the minority it should not have it in there. 14 34.15%

And here is the list of "YES" voters.

Yes since the majority wants it.
86150, allconfererence, Artimus, bs5990, bubb, cahen281, cartman24, dave_rhino, Dean Wormer, dirtydubled, DreamSparrow, E-Ann-Hilden, geraldhp42, gmaxman1212, guch8099, jumbo_jim, KingJames23, LootyK, MILF Man, rabdam, rockford80, sammy402002, senob44, snake8512, titsrock, whoremaker, Will E Worm

http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=180338


I think the numbers turned out about where they should be based on the polls I have seen nationally on the issue.If anything this vote is probably under representative of the US feeling on the issue as I do think bigger % than shown here supports the under god in the pledge.Now lets get to the question for part 2.

Given your answer to part 1 that "Yes since the majority wants it. "
I want to know if sometime in the future the majority is of a different mind set and wants to eithier remove "under god" or not remove it but add the word "no" so that it would read "under no god" or even possibly something like "under allah" would you feel the same way?
Granted the possibility that a majority would ever be muslim and be able to get "under allah" is probably remote I do not think you can assume the same thing about the possibility of the country becoming much less religious(in the way the europeans as a whole have) and wanting religion not offically sanctioned or even want it possibly discouraged.So my question will only be asked from the non-religious angle.

You are allowed to pick more than I answer as more than one may be appropriate.
 

Legzman

what the fuck you lookin at?
From the soon to be deleted thread:
I never voted. I would have chose yes, I think, because I don't see the point in changing the god damn pledge! If your offended by the word god then you have some serious issues! God is a word, just like any other. If you don't believe in god then who cares!

The only way it would be offenisve is if we were saying something like "one nation under allah" then I'd be offended. But I really don't see the problem since I grew up sayin "under god" it was never an issue till all this political correctness shit came around!

anyway, I still don't know how to vote here. I can see atheists becoming the majority. Yet at the same time I still don't understand why they'd want to change the pledge!
 
From the soon to be deleted thread:


anyway, I still don't know how to vote here. I can see atheists becoming the majority. Yet at the same time I still don't understand why they'd want to change the pledge!

Legz if you look at the history of it ( there is a link from wik) in the 1st poll you will see it did not always contain the words "under god".That was added in the 50s after years of lobbying by the Knights of Columbus.So this was an issue for them and I think it is fair to think it would be an issue for others on the other side.Why did they feel it it needed to be changed?
 

Legzman

what the fuck you lookin at?
AH, in that case they can do what they want with it. I didn't know it used to be different. Just got accustomed to it.
 
I voted that if atheists become the majority, the pledge words "under God" should be removed. I actually think the "under God" should have been there from the beginning to reflect that our founding fathers and most of the country believed in God. But if atheists become the majority, it should be changed to reflect the "will of the people".
 
My problem with “Under God” is it’s not just between atheist and God believes. The problem is it promotes the establishment of the monotheistic religions. To me it’s not a settled issue that there is only one God, many Gods or no God. Some religions of the world have more than one God. So maybe it should read “Under the Gods or lack thereof”. The late and great Jesus Christ could be considered to be in the Gods group.
 
I would wish that they let the Pledge return to it's original intent and meaning.


Just as it's wrong for those who are theists to push their set of beliefs on everyone, so is it wrong for unbelievers to push their beliefs onto everyone.

That is of course, assuming that there aren't more pressing issues on hand.

your friend in infidel atheistic non-belief,
R.


PS: I think we should be careful about "Majority rules" type of solutions. What the "majority" wants may not always be the "best" option... nor may it be the one that is "fair" to "all".
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
There's no reason to change the pledge or currency.
If they don't like it they could move to another country. ;)

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I think that they should plan ahead for the future and change it to: "one nation under water."
 
The operative word being "If..." I seriously doubt that the majority could ever shift that far. But if it did, and they though it necessary I am sure they would do so. :2 cents:
 
What the hell do we mean when we are pledging allegiance to a flag?

Official versions
1892
“I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.”
1892 to 1923
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1923 to 1954
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1954 to Present
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

These are the different versions we have had of "the pledge",really the 1st three are just slight changes,it is the present one and "under god" that is really different IMO.
But this has made me consider the pledge itself also.The best of all reasons IMO is that you are pledging yourself to the ideals of "liberty and justice for all" and not so much a piece of cloth or even a group of people or a piece of land.Reading it is unfortunate those words come after flag and republic and god.I have always been amazed by people who think the piece of cloth (the flag) and its protection are more important than the liberty of speech which is what flag burning is.Free speech rights are not there to protect popular speech as that never needs protection,its the stuff some hate strongly that needs protection.
 
Final wrap up and comments on the polls.As you can see only a few who voted in the 1st poll participated in the 2nd.I think it is a fair assumption that those who did not felt uncomfortable to even contemplate that their view may not always be the majority view even though I did offer the I do not concede the US could be majority non-religious option.
Of those 1st poll voters who did vote in poll 2 I think anyone who voted only for question one that it would only be fair to remove under god but did not vote for option 2 of adding the word "no" are being inconsistent with the notion of majority rule.If its fair for the majority to affirm god at one point in time then its fair for a possible new majority in the future to state the opposite with the words under no god.Just taking under god out would be being neutral and I see no reason after the way the religious majority has been anything but neutral why it should be expected if that majority changed to non-religious why they should be expected to be neutral.
So kudos IMO to Dream sparrow the only consistent majority rule voter in the polls IMO.
The majority voted that they do not concede that the US could ever be non-religious and while I cannot say for sure we will survive long enough for that day to come, hopefully soon with more education we can catch up with more enlightened people such as the europeans and rid ourselves of these ancient beleif systems which do get in the way of facing present day realities and adopting sensible solutions and only foster divisions among peoples.





View Poll Results: If atheists became the majority in the future it would be fair if they?
This poll will close on 01-02-2008 at 12:02 PM
Removed "under god"
CptHa, dirtydubled, DreamSparrow, max0rz, senob44 5 27.78%
Added the word "no" so it read "under no god"
CptHa, dick van cock, DreamSparrow, TheDaniël, YMIHERE 5 27.78%
I do not concede that the US could ever be majority non-religious
86150, dirtydubled, DrDetroit, E-Ann-Hilden, GibbsGrad2002, gmaxman1212, jojo760, plucap, Reno82, tartanterrier, Will E Worm 11 61.11%
 
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