The Situation of The Republican Party (US of A)

[Supafly]

It has been a strange situation in the last years, and it is cumulating now that two important positions are to be settled:

The us party that is talking about the importance of us leadership in this world, its lack in the last times, the absolute need to lead the way internationally - that very party has no leadership as of lately. Just the opposite. And you can really not try to paint it like there is just a great diversity and that is a great thing. A broad field of opinions, and more than one candidate for positions, that is healthy. But the cacophony of voices and the total absence of an leader, elected by the party to handle things and hold it to gether, that is just gone and it is another reason why I am so sure that the Republican Party is just over for the next years.

We can argue all the reasons, but the situation is hard to argue. Not that many of you won't tery. In due time, come next fall, we will see. The Democrats will have both the White House and the Senate. And the GOP will have gone further down on its road to ruin, if it does not reinvent itself

Video: on.msnbc.com/1LbXkEC

 

[Jack Davenport]

It has been a strange situation in the last years, and it is cumulating now that two important positions are to be settled:

The us party that is talking about the importance of us leadership in this world, its lack in the last times, the absolute need to lead the way internationally - that very party has no leadership as of lately. Just the opposite. And you can really not try to paint it like there is just a great diversity and that is a great thing. A broad field of opinions, and more than one candidate for positions, that is healthy. But the cacophony of voices and the total absence of an leader, elected by the party to handle things and hold it to gether, that is just gone and it is another reason why I am so sure that the Republican Party is just over for the next years.

We can argue all the reasons, but the situation is hard to argue. Not that many of you won't tery. In due time, come next fall, we will see. The Democrats will have both the White House and the Senate. And the GOP will have gone further down on its road to ruin, if it does not reinvent itself

Video: on.msnbc.com/1LbXkEC

I am going to start calling you Sgt. Schultz because just like him, you know nothing. Keep thinking that Shultzie because you have your own problems to deal with in due time. That Trojan ***** of Syrian refugees will have your country in turmoil soon enough. Republicans are doing some house cleaning right now. We'll be fine and the American people not Republicans are going to steam roll a lot of people out next election. We aren't moving toward a third term for Obama that is for certain.

 

[blakey]

It has been a strange situation in the last years, and it is cumulating now that two important positions are to be settled:

The us party that is talking about the importance of us leadership in this world, its lack in the last times, the absolute need to lead the way internationally - that very party has no leadership as of lately. Just the opposite. And you can really not try to paint it like there is just a great diversity and that is a great thing. A broad field of opinions, and more than one candidate for positions, that is healthy. But the cacophony of voices and the total absence of an leader, elected by the party to handle things and hold it to gether, that is just gone and it is another reason why I am so sure that the Republican Party is just over for the next years.

We can argue all the reasons, but the situation is hard to argue. Not that many of you won't tery. In due time, come next fall, we will see. The Democrats will have both the White House and the Senate. And the GOP will have gone further down on its road to ruin, if it does not reinvent itself

Video: on.msnbc.com/1LbXkEC

good post,


another reason why GOP are gonna be fucked, in medium to long term at least, is the demographic changes happening in america

white voters are becoming a lower percentage of the electorate compared to those american citizens from other ethnic backgrounds

those in ethnic minorities are largely not going to vote republican


this is basically for the reason that they can see, as can anyone with their eyes open, that GOP and their Conservative voters don't like/**** minorities

- including, but not limited to, blacks, latinos, muslims etc




unless GOP change their ways they will end up completely unelectable ever - having herman cain or ben carson trying to be prez won't be enough,
neither will trying to disenfranchise voters by introducing completely Unnecessary voter id laws and closing local DMV offices


the southern strategy worked in the past because whites were still a large enough majority of voters, that is becoming / will no longer be the case

 

[Jack Davenport]

good post,


another reason why GOP are gonna be fucked, in medium to long term at least, is the demographic changes happening in america

white voters are becoming a lower percentage of the electorate compared to those american citizens from other ethnic backgrounds

those in ethnic minorities are largely not going to vote republican


this is basically for the reason that they can see, as can anyone with their eyes open, that GOP and their Conservative voters don't like/**** minorities

- including, but not limited to, blacks, latinos, muslims etc




unless GOP change their ways they will end up completely unelectable ever - having herman cain or ben carson trying to be prez won't be enough,
neither will trying to disenfranchise voters by introducing completely Unnecessary voter id laws and closing local DMV offices


the southern strategy worked in the past because whites were still a large enough majority of voters, that is becoming / will no longer be the case

Not so fast bub. Demographic changes are code for fundamentally changing America and if you haven't been paying attention lately a lot of people have been and it is fueling the revolt that will take place in the next election. Illegals are being included in census figures which change the electoral votes per state. The dirty little secret is out and is getting ready to change. It's gonna break your little left wing heart when it all goes down.

 

[blakey]

america has fundamentally changed throughout its history

from the arrival of the white man, bringing death through disease & ******** to native americans

through the louisiana purchase, california becoming part of usa after mexican-american war etc,

the emancipation of the slaves,
the arrival irish, italian, chinese, german immigrants etc etc etc



it seems, Just BS, that you don't like the "fundamental changing america" looking at it from your idealised idea of "your" america, based on your background, prejudices and experience

(were your ancestors immigrants to USA too by any chance?)


but america has, demographically and in other ways, continued to change for 500+ years - and it will continue to do, whether you like it or not

 

[Jack Davenport]

america has fundamentally changed throughout its history

from the arrival of the white man, bringing death through disease & ******** to native americans

through the louisiana purchase, california becoming part of usa after mexican-american war etc,

the emancipation of the slaves,
the arrival irish, italian, chinese, german immigrants etc etc etc



it seems, Just BS, that you don't like the "fundamental changing america" looking at it from your idealised idea of "your" america, based on your background, prejudices and experience

(were your ancestors immigrants to USA too by any chance?)


but america has, demographically and in other ways, continued to change for 500+ years - and it will continue to do, whether you like it or not

I don't like millions of illegals coming here affecting our electoral college makeup when they shouldn't be here in the first place. I don't like Muslims coming here with no intention of assimilating and loyal to Sharia Law instead of the constitution. I don't like having to press #2 for English in a English speaking country. But mainly I don't like liberals and GOP estabs ramming this **** down our throats. Washington politicians have done a bang up job of concealing all of this for years but America is waking up to this nonsense. Enjoy your gains now, because we are getting ready to cut off the pipeline and those demographic changes you have already achieved are going to have to carry you through Fortunately we caught it in time. Liberal and mushy middle GOP have turned me into an ******* hating, Muslim despising white American nationalist. This is going to be one hell of an ideological and cultural war from here forward. Make sure you pack a lunch.

 

[xfire]

This is going to be one hell of an ideological and cultural war from here forward.

The GOP is currently engaged in both a civil war within it's own party and a war of attrition against the rest of the country. Few outside the party can't see how it's going to end.

 

[Jack Davenport]

The GOP is currently engaged in both a civil war within it's own party and a war of attrition against the rest of the country. Few outside the party can't see how it's going to end.

The Dems had a similar dysfunctional period after the 2002 mid-terms which lead to them moving more to the left with Pelosi, Hoyer et al and it worked out OK for them. Conservatives have won a huge battle with the ouster of that spineless drunkard Boehner. New leadership will have to work within a coalition. We may need an election to see it through. The GOP estabs can either start reading tea leaves accurately or completely lose their power in the next election. It's up to them.

 

[blakey]

Liberal and mushy middle GOP have turned me into an ******* hating, Muslim despising white American nationalist.

well, at least you're admitting your true nature now



i didn't see your answer about whether you had ancestors who were immigrants into usa, whether they came legally or not,

so am i correct to assume that you're an actual native american yourself

(which would mean you're kind of "self-hating" too, if you're a white american nationalist)

:dunno:

 

[Johan]

Not only that the demographics are changing but people do agree with Democrats/liberals proposals : raisoing the minimum wage, expanding social security, mandatory background checks, free college, etc.
And this is the reason why, among democrat voters, Sanders is gaining on Hillary, nationwide and in every state. Even leading in some states, despite hvingt less media-coverag than Hillary

 

[Supafly]

I just need to clear things up:

I do not **** on Republicans, as little as I **** on conservatives in my own country. There need to be people of various opinions and basic stances on all sorts of issues, and I myself have become very conservative on some points over the years.

It is just the problem with political parties and specific figures becoming more and more corrupt, and more and more talking what their advisor tell them, in order to secure the shortterm vote, ending up a leaf in the wind, losing the cre belief system every politician, every man and woman needs.

From time to time, true and honest Republicans - most on the state level - show up in the news, making honest policy. Once they make it to House and Senate, this is over, as it seems.

I do not excuse the same that happens on the other side, but there are still more honest, upright politicians amond the Democrats - Sanders, Warren, you know, others, I am sure. TThese could literally not survive in the GOP right now. That's why I single out the Republican Party

 

[Jack Davenport]

Not only that the demographics are changing but people do agree with Democrats/liberals proposals : raisoing the minimum wage, expanding social security, mandatory background checks, free college, etc.
And this is the reason why, among democrat voters, Sanders is gaining on Hillary, nationwide and in every state. Even leading in some states, despite havngt less media-coverag than Hillary

We have told you on many occasions to mind your own fucked up country as a punchline but you might want to seriously consider heeding that advice before you have to start bowing toward Mecca 3 times a day. As for your wet ***** of Bernie becoming president, he won't be in the race past March if Hillary survives and between his old ass dozing off 4 times a day and someone administering him his Ensure in a baby bottle he wouldn't have much time to govern to start with.

- - - Updated - - -

Not only that the demographics are changing but people do agree with Democrats/liberals proposals : raisoing the minimum wage, expanding social security, mandatory background checks, free college, etc.
And this is the reason why, among democrat voters, Sanders is gaining on Hillary, nationwide and in every state. Even leading in some states, despite havngt less media-coverag than Hillary

We have told you on many occasions to mind your own fucked up country as a punchline but you might want to seriously consider heeding that advice before you have to start bowing toward Mecca 3 times a day. As for your wet ***** of Bernie becoming president, he won't be in the race past March if Hillary survives and between his old ass dozing off 4 times a day and someone administering him his Ensure in a baby bottle he wouldn't have much time to govern to start with.

 

[Jack Davenport]

I just need to clear things up:

I do not **** on Republicans, as little as I **** on conservatives in my own country. There need to be people of various opinions and basic stances on all sorts of issues, and I myself have become very conservative on some points over the years.

It is just the problem with political parties and specific figures becoming more and more corrupt, and more and more talking what their advisor tell them, in order to secure the shortterm vote, ending up a leaf in the wind, losing the cre belief system every politician, every man and woman needs.

From time to time, true and honest Republicans - most on the state level - show up in the news, making honest policy. Once they make it to House and Senate, this is over, as it seems.

I do not excuse the same that happens on the other side, but there are still more honest, upright politicians amond the Democrats - Sanders, Warren, you know, others, I am sure. TThese could literally not survive in the GOP right now. That's why I single out the Republican Party

You couldn't clear things up with a 50 gallon drum of Valtrex.

 

[Jack Davenport]

well, at least you're admitting your true nature now



i didn't see your answer about whether you had ancestors who were immigrants into usa, whether they came legally or not,

so am i correct to assume that you're an actual native american yourself

(which would mean you're kind of "self-hating" too, if you're a white american nationalist)

:dunno:

Admitting your true nature is never something other than a novel idea amongst totalitarians and leftists.It's counterproductive. My ancestry is English/German and they arrived here legally as far as we all know and contributed and assimilated within American culture.

- - - Updated - - -

well, at least you're admitting your true nature now



i didn't see your answer about whether you had ancestors who were immigrants into usa, whether they came legally or not,

so am i correct to assume that you're an actual native american yourself

(which would mean you're kind of "self-hating" too, if you're a white american nationalist)

:dunno:

Admitting your true nature is never something other than a novel idea amongst totalitarians and leftists.It's counterproductive. My ancestry is English/German and they arrived here legally as far as we all know and contributed and assimilated within American culture.

 

[xfire]

The Dems had a similar dysfunctional period after the 2002 mid-terms which lead to them moving more to the left with Pelosi, Hoyer et al and it worked out OK for them. Conservatives have won a huge battle with the ouster of that spineless drunkard Boehner. New leadership will have to work within a coalition. We may need an election to see it through. The GOP estabs can either start reading tea leaves accurately or completely lose their power in the next election. It's up to them.

I think you're underestimating the power of the establishment, at any rate, there really isn't enough difference between "establishment" Republicans and Tea Party Conservatives (or whatever the "anti-establishment" wing of the GOP is calling itself) to differentiate to anyone but Tea Party Conservatives themselves.

 

[Jack Davenport]

I think you're underestimating the power of the establishment, at any rate, there really isn't enough difference between "establishment" Republicans and Tea Party Conservatives (or whatever the "anti-establishment" wing of the GOP is calling itself) to differentiate to anyone but Tea Party Conservatives themselves.

Um..severely out of touch statement there. There is more in common between GOP estabs and the Dems from immigration to not wanting to utilize the powers granted by the constitution. The hardliners and Tea Party wing are sparking this revolt and I and others are quite enjoying it. There has been a bit of an epiphany among conservatives as to just how close the GOP estabs and Dems have grown and it completely justifies our yearning to have conservative leadership and a conservative president I am certain the conservative base are energized more than at any time in the past 30 years.

 

[xfire]

Um..severely out of touch statement there. There is more in common between GOP estabs and the Dems from immigration to not wanting to utilize the powers granted by the constitution. The hardliners and Tea Party wing are sparking this revolt and I and others are quite enjoying it. There has been a bit of an epiphany among conservatives as to just how close the GOP estabs and Dems have grown and it completely justifies our yearning to have conservative leadership and a conservative president I am certain the conservative base are energized more than at any time in the past 30 years.

Like I said, not enough difference. Take my guy, Jeb Hensarling for example. He doesn't consider himself in any way affiliated with the Tea Party but if you check his voting record, like most other "establishment" Republicans, he votes with the Tea Party members almost every time. The only real difference between "establishment" Republicans and their Tea Party, or "hardliner" colleagues, is in the tone of the their rhetoric and a testy attitude when dealing with opposition.

 

[Jack Davenport]

With all due respect, you said yourself that Paul Ryan was the deal breaker for you with supporting Romney. Ryan ain't no right winger. Luis Gutierrez supports Ryan as Speaker. Are you to the left of Gutierrez? That would be pretty difficult to accomplish. No sense in discussing the nuances of ideology either within or outside a party if you think Ryan is a nut job.

 

[xfire]

Speaking of Paul Ryan-

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/10/paul-ryan-centrist-crush/?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

If Paul Ryan has any sense of self-preservation — and that is one thing he surely has — he will look for any way possible to avoid becoming Speaker. The hard right is already attacking him, essentially accusing him of not being sufficiently crazy, and they’re right. On policy substance he’s totally an Ayn Rand-loving, reward-the-rich and punish-the-poor guy, but so are lots of other Republicans; what they want is someone willing to go along with kamikaze tactics, and he isn’t. His fall from grace would be swift.

But if Ryan isn’t distinctive in his political positions, why does he loom so large within his party? The answer is that he’s more or less unique among extreme right-wingers in having the approbation of centrists, especially centrist pundits. That is, he’s a big man within the GOP because people outside seem to approve of him. And it’s important to ask why.

What you need to understand about political commentary these days — including the de facto commentary that poses as news analysis, or even reporting — is that most of the people doing it have both a professional and an emotional stake in portraying the two parties as symmetric, equally good or bad on policy issues and general behavior. To stray from this pose of even-handedness is to be labeled a partisan — and to admit that the parties aren’t the same, after all, would mean admitting that you’ve been wrong about the most basic features of the situation for years.

Unfortunately for professional centrists, the parties aren’t remotely symmetric. Compare the policy proposals Hillary Clinton has been releasing with those being put out even by establishment Republican candidates like Rubio and Bush. Whether you like Clinton’s proposals or not, there’s some serious wonkery behind them, and they’re the kind of thing you could easily imagine being put into effect. Meanwhile, even the supposedly moderate GOPers are peddling voodoo, puppies, and rainbows. What’s a professional centrist to do?

The answer is that he or she desperately needs to find conservatives they can take seriously, people who produce policy ideas that, even if you don’t support their priorities, add up and generally make sense. And that’s Paul Ryan’s game: he has put himself forward as the serious, honest conservative of centrists’ dreams, someone they can cite approvingly as a way of showing their centrism and open-mindedness.

And it has been a stunningly successful act. In his heyday, Ryan was the object of an immense, indeed embarrassing, media crush — the word “love” came up a lot.

But Ryan didn’t step into that role by actually being a serious, honest conservative; he just played one on TV. If you knew anything at all about budgeting, you soon realized that his supposedly responsible fiscal proposals were stuffed full of mystery meat. He knew how to game the system, creating the impression that CBO had vetted his plans when it had done no such thing (and in fact hinted broadly that the whole thing was a crock). But there’s never been any indication that he actually knows how to produce a budget — and in any case, giant tax cuts for the rich and fiscal responsibility are fundamentally incompatible.

So Ryan’s current stature is really quite curious, and I’d argue quite fragile. He has been a highly successful con artist, pretending to be the reasonable conservative centrists desperately want to see; he has become a power within his party because of that external achievement. But he’s not a true hero of the crazy right; he’s valued mainly because of his successful con job on the center. So he doesn’t have a reserve of goodwill from the crazies that would let him be, well, not crazy. On the other hand, if he were to be the kind of speaker the crazies want, he would undermine that all-important centrist approbation. Being off to the side, pretending to be dealing thoughtfully with important policy issues, was where he needed to be; moving to the speaker’s chair would be a lose-lose proposition.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Krugman's take? What do you expect? Some of it is spot on maybe 50 percent. The issues front and center right now are immigration and ******* ISIS. Conservatives would get on board with someone that wanted to give every American a free iPhone as long as the aforementioned issues were being addressed. The "crazies" of which I proudly am a member are going to voice their displeasure next fall even if we have to use some of the voices in our heads.