vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Should there be be one?
http://unionstogether.org.uk/page/signup/protect-the-minimum-wage
http://unionstogether.org.uk/page/signup/protect-the-minimum-wage
The minimum wage
- Thread starter vodkazvictim
- Start date
What should it be?
Don't ask me for a raw figure because that's going to vary based on the price of living and the rate of inflation in different countries, but it should be enough to keep pace with both.
So it should be a livable wage? And it should be blanket regardless of job?
Yes, that would explain the phrase "minimum wage" (as in, it's not "sometimes the minimum, sometimes you make way less, fuck it them's the breaks wage").
So it should be a livable wage? In the U.S. the federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr. In my state the minimum wage is $9.19 an hour. Is that acceptable to you? I was asking if that should be blanket because there are currently exceptions.
I don't know if that's acceptable because like I said I don't know what the cost of living and the rate of inflation is where you're at. If your state sets it at $9.19 that seems on par with the current UK rate which is £6.19 ($9.37 according to Google) an hour, but they might have different purchasing powers. Maybe $9.19 doesn't buy shit all where you live, or maybe it's pretty solid. My point that it should be blanket is that I know that the US (I believe Canada as well?) and presumably other nations don't actually count service jobs like waiting or bartending as deserving minimum wage, which is why the tipping etiquette is so different globally--here waiters are part of the same minimum wage laws as any other profession and don't rely on customers paying extra just so they have a survivable take-home. Like I say, minimum wages should be the minimum wage, not an option depending on your profession.
Which brings me back to my question. The minimum wage should be a livable wage?
Of course, why should it be lower? The whole point of it existing is to ensure workers are able to earn enough to live on. Anything less would defeat the purpose.
Ok I just wanted to make that clear. Because 9.19/hr is hardly enough to live on where I live.
No, there shouldn't be one.
That's the point of a minimum wage. To ensure that someone can make enough money to live.
Hardly liveable sounds liveable, just that it will make for a difficult life. Sounds about right since we're talking about a minimum wage and not an ideal wage.
So then you support mass unionization and empowering unions, because that's the only other workable alternative.
But for who? A teenager living at home or a someone with a wife and kids to support? What is a livable wage?
Can't speak for elsewhere, but where I live there is a General Minimum Wage and a Student Minimum Wage, that covers that.
But then that's not a blanket minimum wage.
Here's what I'm getting at - I see merits to both arguments. I'm not wealthy or a business owner. My income would classify me as upper middle class but I'd like to think if I were laid off (which has happened) that if I had to work an entry level job I'd rather get paid $9/hr than $6/hr. But I also realize the unintended consequences of setting an artficial cap or bottom on wages. If you're a business owner the bottom line is ... the bottom line. You're in business to make money not to provide jobs.
Equal among equals. It's an exception, like the Tipped and Non-tipped Minimum Wages that exist in some areas (and also in federal US law).
If you're a business owner you have a duty to your employees to make sure they can earn a living in a safe manner. Take that away and you start a walk back to the days of child labor, and people working themselves to death as a cog in the machine of industry. Basically you say goodbye to civilization and hello to human rights violations.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Yes, and the wage for servers needs to be raised. There should also be a MAXIMUM wage...mainly for politicians, and people employed in jobs that serve the public good...such as the CEO's of oil companies. I do believe in free enterprise, but when it comes to things EVERYONE needs, there needs to be some regulation, so the public isn't adversely effected.
Rattrap
Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you
This depends on the state. In Oregon, minimum wage is minimum wage - I'm told it's one of the best states to be a server in, because you'll make minimum wage while the tipping culture is still the American tipping culture. I think I heard California is the same, but maybe that was Washington...or both. I don't remember. I didn't work in service until I moved to England. Which brings me to my first surprise...
Britain has a minimum wage based on age which surprised me, though I saw merits for it (and against it) over time. If I'm not mistaken, there's a certain minimum wage until 17, then 18-21, and finally 22 and up (if nothing else, it made your 22nd birthday actually worth something - automatic raise if you're working a min-wage job!). I guess this serves the point of "Does a kid living with his folks need to earn a 'livable wage?'", while the counter-argument I heard most often was "Why should he learn any less for doing the same job as the 25-year-old next to him?". I don't have an opinion on it, really. Then came my third country of residence with the third surprise...
Germany doesn't have a minimum wage. I wouldn't have thought that could work, yet here it is driving the European economy. I guess now there are some select industries that do - but only some. And there's a fair amount of opposition to instituting a national minimum wage.
The UK (all of the UK, not just Britain) has minimums at 21+, 18 to 20 and <18. To be honest I don't agree with the gradation simply because it's the chief reason a lot of young people struggle to find work during and after uni--until they enter a skilled position based on their qualifications, they're competing for every service, retail, etc job with 16 year olds who cost a lot less to the business owner. When I was 16 I know I beat out a lot of people more suited to my job than me under the assumption that the two+ years of cheaper labour they'd get out of me offset the cost of training, and that's not really a healthy way for a job market to work. Yeah, it helps young people get their foot in the door a little easier, but the downside is that they basically need to stay in that door for a whole lot longer than necessary because the experience they'll get from their first job means shit once they hit 18 or 21.
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