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Student loan debt forgiveness .. and disgust

Historically I've voted for candidates and their policies, and not so much on party lines. Going forwards, I'm voting Republican PERIOD. Yes, even if that means the orange-faced revisionist history idiot.

I am completely disgusted that my tax dollars will be used to pay for someone else's decision to get an undergrad degree in underwater gender studies, and now they're a barista at Starbucks staring at a five-figure debt load. YOU took out the loan. YOU chose the program / degree to study.

That's like me buying a Lamborghini, and then asking for a bail out, because I was seduced by their marketing.

My blood is boiling. What happened to personal responsibility? Accountability?
 
Historically I've voted for candidates and their policies, and not so much on party lines. Going forwards, I'm voting Republican PERIOD. Yes, even if that means the orange-faced revisionist history idiot.

I am completely disgusted that my tax dollars will be used to pay for someone else's decision to get an undergrad degree in underwater gender studies, and now they're a barista at Starbucks staring at a five-figure debt load. YOU took out the loan. YOU chose the program / degree to study.

That's like me buying a Lamborghini, and then asking for a bail out, because I was seduced by their marketing.

My blood is boiling. What happened to personal responsibility? Accountability?
Guess who'd getting 20K of student loans erased? Me!!

You mad bro?
 
Historically I've voted for candidates and their policies, and not so much on party lines. Going forwards, I'm voting Republican PERIOD. Yes, even if that means the orange-faced revisionist history idiot.

I am completely disgusted that my tax dollars will be used to pay for someone else's decision to get an undergrad degree in underwater gender studies, and now they're a barista at Starbucks staring at a five-figure debt load. YOU took out the loan. YOU chose the program / degree to study.

That's like me buying a Lamborghini, and then asking for a bail out, because I was seduced by their marketing.

My blood is boiling. What happened to personal responsibility? Accountability?
boomertrolly.jpg

This whole issue of people having a problem about this reminds me of this meme.

In any case your being quite nonsensical and you view is stupid. Not only do you base you belief on the the most ridiculous nontypical worse case scenario of what somebody might get higher education for, you conveniently ignore all the other more important things that it gives and our country needs for it's future. You're comparing higher education to "buying a Lamborghini" for fucks sake. Seriously, if you actually deluded yourself into believing a false equivalence that large you need mental help, for your own sake.

All that aside why is it that damn near every other first world nation can very substantially support their population in obtaining higher education if not virtually make it free for them, but the US, the so called richest, most powerful, greatest, most rooting tooting awesome country that every was, with a manifest destiny and exceptionalism pretty much ordained by God, or so I'm told, with the most wealth ever can't pull it off? They manage to not only do that better than us, but they do pretty much every other social program better than us at the same time while having less resources than us. Explain that?

Hell, lets go even further. Do you fucking get upset and bitch and whine to this level when these things happen to almost everybody else's and probably your expense:

Billionaires and other ultra rich people in this country continue to find ways to pay little to no tax, especially when it comes to how much they pay per dollar.

Very wealthy companies in this country continue to find ways to pay little to no tax.

Obscene amounts of money is continually poured into the military and the military industrial complex that feeds it to the point that we put more money into it than the rest of the major military forces of the world combined, most of whom are our allies, and past the point it makes any sense. Yet the military budget increases keep happening and they get more and more and more all the time. Don't forget the wars over the past two decades we spent 6.5 TRILLION and counting on and accomplished jack squat, or the boondoggle of a fighter plane project that will cost 1.7 trillion, and counting. Yes, that's trillion with a "T".

We treat the human right of healthcare as a function of the market dictated by the nice people of the insurance and drug companies, and medicine in this country is broken like no where else in the industrialized world, and we pay more than anywhere else for less for most people.

Large corporations seem to get bailouts whenever they need it because they, "are too big to fail" or because they have connections, yet they magically also never seem too big to fail to be taken run by the government and ran by the people for some reason.

The wealthy and elite can buy access to politicians to get the laws tailored made for themselves at the expense of everybody else and have the economy funnel money up to them from everybody else.

Either the answer is no, and your being gigantically hypocritical to an embarrassing degree considering how much tax dollars are siphoned to those things and to the rich one way or another. Or the answer is yes, and you are actually now siding with the party THAT IS EVEN WORSE ON THOSE ISSUES, while also somehow actually complaining about a little bit of student loan debt that is washed away that those people should of never had to get in the first place if this was a just society we lived in. But, your "blood is boiling" over this? Get real. Again, seriously, explain all that to me?
 
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This whole issue of people having a problem about this reminds me of this meme.

In any case your being quite nonsensical and you view is stupid. Not only do you base you belief on the the most ridiculous nontypical worse case scenario of what somebody might get higher education for, you conveniently ignore all the other more important things that it gives and our country needs for it's future. You're comparing higher education to "buying a Lamborghini" for fucks sake. Seriously, if you actually deluded yourself into believing a false equivalence that large you need mental help, for your own sake.

$321 billion would do WONDERS for the crumbling infrastructure in the US. Or, be able to expand Medicaid / Medicare and provide better health benefits to the poor and elderly.

All that aside why is it that damn near every other first world nation can very substantially support their population in obtaining higher education if not virtually make it free for them, but the US, the so called richest, most powerful, greatest, most rooting tooting awesome country that every was, with a manifest destiny and exceptionalism pretty much ordained by God, or so I'm told, with the most wealth ever can't pull it off? They manage to not only do that better than us, but they do pretty much every other social program better than us at the same time while having less resources than us. Explain that?

Because these other nations’ citizens are taxed significantly more on their income than in the US. It’s called socialism.

Hell, lets go even further. Do you fucking get upset and bitch and whine to this level when these things happen to almost everybody else's and probably your expense:

Billionaires and other ultra rich people in this country continue to find ways to pay little to no tax, especially when it comes to how much they pay per dollar.

Elon Musk paid $11 billion in taxes in 2022, for income in 2021?

Very wealthy companies in this country continue to find ways to pay little to no tax.

The IRS has I believe a five-year carry-forwards loss provision for businesses. That enables them to provide their own capital for growth once it turns profitable – for the initial five years, anyway.

Obscene amounts of money is continually poured into the military and the military industrial complex that feeds it to the point that we put more money into it than the rest of the major military forces of the world combined, most of whom are our allies, and past the point it makes any sense. Yet the military budget increases keep happening and they get more and more and more all the time. Don't forget the wars over the past two decades we spent 6.5 TRILLION and counting on and accomplished jack squat, or the boondoggle of a fighter plane project that will cost 1.7 trillion, and counting. Yes, that's trillion with a "T".

I agree; the US’ military industrial complex is out of control.

We treat the human right of healthcare as a function of the market dictated by the nice people of the insurance and drug companies, and medicine in this country is broken like no where else in the industrialized world, and we pay more than anywhere else for less for most people.

See prior socialism comment, and the level of income taxation.

Large corporations seem to get bailouts whenever they need it because they, "are too big to fail" or because they have connections, yet they magically also never seem too big to fail to be taken run by the government and ran by the people for some reason.

In 2008 – if the US Government didn’t “bail out” the banks, the impact would have rivaled the Great Depression.. And – no; the US Government effectively bought-out and had oversight of General Motors for years, around the same period.

The wealthy and elite can buy access to politicians to get the laws tailored made for themselves at the expense of everybody else and have the economy funnel money up to them from everybody else.

Agree; Citizens United set a bad precedent.

Either the answer is no, and your being gigantically hypocritical to an embarrassing degree considering how much tax dollars are siphoned to those things and to the rich one way or another. Or the answer is yes, and you are actually now siding with the party THAT IS EVEN WORSE ON THOSE ISSUES, while also somehow actually complaining about a little bit of student loan debt that is washed away that those people should of never had to get in the first place if this was a just society we lived in. But, your "blood is boiling" over this? Get real. Again, seriously, explain all that to me?
 

gmase

Nattering Nabob of Negativism
Let's not forget about the PPP debt forgiveness.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-...udent-loan-cancellation-ppp-loan-forgiveness/

I am certain we could find some Democrats, but for now - here are some Republicans:
  • Marjorie Taylor Greene: $183k
  • Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma said farmers, ranchers, small business owners and teachers in his state don't need to be "paying the debts of Ivy League lawyers and doctors across the U.S." He had more than $1.4 million in PPP loans forgiven, according to the White House.
  • Vern Buchanan had more than $2.3 million in PPP loans forgiven.
  • "Republican lawmakers Kevin Hern, Mike Kelly and Matt Gaetz also had more than $1 million, $987,000, and $482,300 forgiven, respectively."



... we could probably talk TARP too. Not sure if any of those guys were held accountable. :LOL:
 
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I think @Pornfan99 's anger isn't unfounded. I don't necessarily agree, but it's understandable.

I never experienced "spring break" in University - I worked every summer, winter and spring. I lived in a basement apartment with centipedes and ants. I never had a car and would spend almost an hour in the frigid cold waiting for the bus just for a grocery run. I never ate out, and only went out partying for special occasions like a friend's birthday. I bought used textbooks wherever they were available, spending the first days of the semester scouring internet boards and erasing all the notes. I even used ad-supported internet service when that was still a thing.

And at the end of it all, I ended up with minimal debt. So yeah, I'd be pissed to see those who partied it up or didn't have to go through all that in university get 10K or more wiped off. But at the same time, I also experienced life without debt when I entered the workforce. My credit rating was pretty awesome for a new grad. I got approved for a car loan at a 0% interest rate, and I never once was worried about having my credit checked.

So I did reap the benefit of paying off my education, while I'm sure those who didn't had at least some difficulties. And I'm sure that none of them expected to have their loans forgiven.

That said, if joe doesn't address the root cause of this, all the hate is deserved. Post-secondary education tuition in the US is unconscionable. Educational institutions should be about education, not profit. Look at the salaries of administrators and the top tier positions in the ivy league and try to justify them. Then look at higher education costs in other countries and see how they compare.

Sorry for the rant. Basically, it's a nice gesture, but that's all it will be if he does fix the problem, because he can't keep forgiving debt forever.
 

gmase

Nattering Nabob of Negativism
I think @Pornfan99 's anger isn't unfounded. I don't necessarily agree, but it's understandable.

I never experienced "spring break" in University - I worked every summer, winter and spring. I lived in a basement apartment with centipedes and ants. I never had a car and would spend almost an hour in the frigid cold waiting for the bus just for a grocery run. I never ate out, and only went out partying for special occasions like a friend's birthday. I bought used textbooks wherever they were available, spending the first days of the semester scouring internet boards and erasing all the notes. I even used ad-supported internet service when that was still a thing.

And at the end of it all, I ended up with minimal debt. So yeah, I'd be pissed to see those who partied it up or didn't have to go through all that in university get 10K or more wiped off. But at the same time, I also experienced life without debt when I entered the workforce. My credit rating was pretty awesome for a new grad. I got approved for a car loan at a 0% interest rate, and I never once was worried about having my credit checked.

So I did reap the benefit of paying off my education, while I'm sure those who didn't had at least some difficulties. And I'm sure that none of them expected to have their loans forgiven.

That said, if joe doesn't address the root cause of this, all the hate is deserved. Post-secondary education tuition in the US is unconscionable. Educational institutions should be about education, not profit. Look at the salaries of administrators and the top tier positions in the ivy league and try to justify them. Then look at higher education costs in other countries and see how they compare.

Sorry for the rant. Basically, it's a nice gesture, but that's all it will be if he does fix the problem, because he can't keep forgiving debt forever.
Well put.
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
My blood is boiling. What happened to personal responsibility? Accountability?

Wow. You're on one about personal responsibility and accountability, but you're willing to vote for the Trump pig if he runs again. Trump, the guy that just got hit with a $250 million fraud lawsuit by the state of New York. The guy that directed the January 6th insurrection. The guy that stole classified documents for who-knows-what, but you're willing to vote for that guy if he runs again. Student loan shit aside, just fucking wow. :rolleyes:
 

gmase

Nattering Nabob of Negativism
Wow. You're on one about personal responsibility and accountability, but you're willing to vote for the Trump pig if he runs again. Trump, the guy that just got hit with a $250 million fraud lawsuit by the state of New York. The guy that directed the January 6th insurrection. The guy that stole classified documents for who-knows-what, but you're willing to vote for that guy if he runs again. Student loan shit aside, just fucking wow. :rolleyes:
I guess some people are okay with students being defrauded though. Let’s not forget this:

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-university-founder-dares-rail-012519002.html
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Why don't we wait until the Georgia Senate race is done on December 6th?

Then it is clear if the legislation can pass, I believe. Ironically, of all people, by a candidate that is as stupid as Herschel and has lied about as many degrees and jobs he never had.
 

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

Every Nation Needs a God-Emperor!
Unless the House goes Dem the chance of a loan forgiveness is remote. And you still need 60 in the Senate. The young who owe this money just have to remember next time who voted to give business owners a free ride and who did not care about their debt.
 
The least Biden can do is put back the freeze on student loan payments until the 20k in forgiveness is safe. Especially since youngish voters came out and saved the Democrats from the red wave.
 
Hmmm...lets see.

If taxpayers money goes to build a bridge I will almost never, if not ever, cross is that unfair to me? Those other people choose to cross the bridge not me.
If I don't have children or my children are past the age of being in school is it unfair to me to pay for others to have public education? Those people decided to send to their children there?
If potholes get fixed on the other side of the city is it unfair to me when my taxes pay for it.
If police or firefighters respond to emergencies when it's neigh infinitesimally small I will personally ever have need of them in my personal situation is that unfair for my tax dollars to go to them?
If the stupidly overbloated military spending goes to things I don't give a crap about and don't think are needed is that unfair to me personally on an individual level?
If older people start to take more in Social Security than they put in because they live longer now and don't decide to just go out in the street and cheaply die quickly is that unfair to me?
If the postal service delivers more letters to somebody else than to me is it unfair to me?

You can see how this line of thinking is just stupid, and modern society literally wouldn't function if we all thought that acted like this. So why the hell do we treat things like health care and higher education as any different? Things that should be among the most important issues for us. Not everything can be about something that just benefits one personally, or just people one identifies with? I don't know why we even have an arbitrary cut off for education if it's something our country legitimately needs for it's own well-being.

Plus it should just be forgiven if for no other reason than it should never have been a debt in the first place in a reasonably run first world country. So many other places don't seem to have the trouble we do on this. This isn't like somebody gambling money away or buying a sports car. It's not a luxury.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
An investment into a broader, better educated generation, and more to come, pushes forward the development of the whole country, and gives more than the upper crust the chance of create a better future.

The USA has to be moved into the 21st century, and stop being a third-world country in so many ways. As with healthcare, I know, the struggle is real, but it has to be a sandard for leading industrial nations to offer this to everyone.
 
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