Spanish-speakers in the USA

[LBP 76]

^^ Way back then it was FAR more difficult to get to America. You had to cross an ocean on a big, slow boat. And these big boats could be controlled through choke points (like Ellis Island). Most people that came to America then were known to the authorities.
Now, most immigrants walk over the border at will.

Obviously the immigrants from 100+ years ago are going to be better suited to their new country. They had to plan well in advance to go.
Now, you barely have to plan at all. Especially if you have someone waiting for you in America.


D-rock? Your foreparents knew 6 or 7 languages! Wow!

 

[ChefChiTown]

I was trying to avoid commenting in this thread with further detail, but I think I'll chip in a small portion of my 2 cents. Consider this like one half of a quarter percent of two-thirds of a sliver of one of those cents...

In one of the kitchens I used to work in, we had 4 employees who didn't speak English; not one word. Yes, they were legal citizens, who obviously just learned the English that they "had" to and then just let it slip away from their memory once they were given US Citizenship. Anyway, in order to function as a business, all of the other kitchen employees were forced to start learning Spanish. The Spanish speaking employees made NO effort to learn English. It was up to the English speaking employees, who had been born in and lived in this country for their whole lives, to go out of our way to learn Spanish.

Foreigners come from somewhere else in order to live in "our country", but yet, "our citizens" have to adapt to them? No. HEEEEELL no. That's not how it should work. If you come to "our country", you adapt to us...not the other way around.

THAT is fucking bullshit and THAT is the exact reason why I believe that you should have to be able to, at the very least, hold a normal conversation in English in order to be a United States citizen.

I don't care that English isn't our "official" language. Every single person in the entire world knows that American's speak English. Learn it before you move here.

 

[Sicario]

me no speek inglish. why you gringos say stuff about pepol who not reed or rite yur language? me no understand yu krazy cabrones.

:thefinger

 

[darkwarrior3007]

^^^(Chef's Post)That's the way I feel about the situation. Not matter what country you live in you should learn the dominant language of that country. I have a friend from Colombia who agrees with me. When she came to this country she learned English pretty quickly and I feel that if I were to move to her native country then I should learn to speak Spanish or if I were move to France then I should learn French. Why should the country that you plan on living in have to cater to you?

 

[senob44]

I think people should learn the dominant language of the country they live in. As others mentioned, the government spends millions of dollars just to offer bi-lingual services, and in turn, enables people to get by without speaking English. IMO this is a huge waste.

 

[mongo18]

I don't understand the mentality required to even consider moving to a country whose language you don't speak, what could you hope to achieve there?

I agree that it's bullshit that we are expected to cater to non-English speaking people, I recall a case (I think it was a thread here) where a company was up against discrimination charges for not hiring non-English speaking people. Does anyone stop and think about this shit? Consider the added expense, loss of productivity, and even safety issues that come about when your employees can't even communicate with each other.

There's really not much that anybody can do about illegal immigrants, apart from some dipshit politician occasionally suggesting we give them free green cards or driver's licenses or something, they're really 100% under the radar, but there's plenty that the government could and should do to lean on the legit ones to force them to learn some English.

 

[calpoon]

Call me crazy, but I think that Americans have the right to freedom of speech. Ever heard of that one?

I see that no one touched this one.

:wave: bye bye freedom and equality, it was nice knowing you.

 

[Dawn]

Freedom of speech isnt covering the choice of the language in which you are using that right as far as i know.

Minimal understanding/speaking is necessary to communicate with other citizens, employers... or to partake in the election system. I mean, if you can't understand what candidates are talking about, how can you vote? If we cant find someone to translate, how can they be treated in life/death situations? How an employer can explain the work without a translator?

Besides that minimal understanding of the country official tongue, i see nothing wrong if someone choose to speak a foreign language in his daily life.

Allowing everyone to speak the language they choose reminds me somewhat of the biblical story of Babel. How can a country like that Babel can work?

At least, thats how i think it could work for the better of the immigrants and the country. It's common sense in my opinion, and immigrants who arent prepared to live in USA (or any other country) are heading into a total alienation... Alienation that can backfire and cause huge social problems.

 

[calpoon]

Freedom of speech isnt covering the choice of the language in which you are using that right as far as i know.

I don't recall ever seeing a supreme court decision on the subject, which is why America has no "official" language.

I don't really give a shit what language people speak, if I can't understand you, then I won't talk to you. Doesn't bother me any.

It's common sense in my opinion, and immigrants who arent prepared to live in USA (or any other country) are heading into a total alienation... Alienation that can backfire and cause huge social problems.

Then that's their problem. I don't see why it needs to be legislated. If people want to understand each other, then it's on them to make the effort.

 

[Dawn]

I don't recall ever seeing a supreme court decision on the subject, which is why America has no "official" language.

Its a "hole" in the current US laws. Nothing is written about this specific problem. Nothing to make english the official US language neither to make it otherwise. We are both speculating.

You skipped too many points i have made to jump on what you wanted to comment anyway.

If you can, explain me how a country (US or any other one) can work if people cannot understand each other?

 

[don_equis]

Si claro que deben de aprender el idioma de este pais. Que carajo se creen que van a vivir aqui y no saber nada de como se habla?...

 

[No_Man]

FYI... The courts have consistently felt that a federally legislated official national language would be an unconstitutional invasion of states' rights. Thus, it would require a Constitutional amendment to declare a national language. That's the major reason it hasn't been done thus far. Now, that's not to say it shouldn't happen. Just that doing it would take more than Congress growing the balls to do it.

On a side note, about 30 states have individually declared English to be their official language (there's a list on the wikipedia page here). If yours isn't one them and you wish it were, you could certainly try to get a ballot initiative going.

 

[don_equis]

FYI... The courts have consistently felt that a federally legislated official national language would be an unconstitutional invasion of states' rights. Thus, it would require a Constitutional amendment to declare a national language. That's the major reason it hasn't been done thus far. Now, that's not to say it shouldn't happen. Just that doing it would take more than Congress growing the balls to do it.

On a side note, about 30 states have individually declared English to be their official language (there's a list on the wikipedia page here). If yours isn't one them and you wish it were, you could certainly try to get a ballot initiative going.

No man your avater gives your inteligence credit, that's so thruth and yes unlike popular belief the states reserve the rights to come up with their own laws. As in stated in the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution.

 

[Dawn]

A citizen can ask to get federal papers in the language he choose? A court of law have to give its verdict in the language of both parties?
A policemen arresting someone have to read his rights to the arrested in which language? How a commando of marines can work in Iraq if the orders arent given in a common language, english or another? How can you exerce your citizen right to vote if you can't read the question?

If citizens arent asked to understand minimal english, is it the government who have to speak/translate for them? On who falls the burden?

Is it your taxes which are financing all the translations issues, translators and everything government related in his relationship with citizens? And if its the case, is it worthy to use tax money for that?

I'm pretty sure this kind of problem havent been considered or even anticipated by the Fathers. So it all depends on how the Constitution have been/is/will be interpreted. Glad someone will make a good earning out of that: the lawyers!

So how does it work then?

 

[Dawn]

Oh... and a last question.

If english isnt the official language of the USA, why all presidents have always used the english language to speak to the nation if it wasnt unofficially the acknowledged common language of USA citizens? Presidents should now learn how many languages to follow the constitution and speak TO and FOR all citizens?

Actually, following the constitution, your president could make his speech and all correspondence between citizen and federal governement in german!

 

[don_equis]

Oh... and a last question.

If english isnt the official language of the USA, why all presidents have always used the english language to speak to the nation if it wasnt unofficially the acknowledged common language of USA citizens? Presidents should now learn how many languages to follow the constitution and speak TO and FOR all citizens?

Actually, following the constitution, your president could make his speech and all correspondence between citizen and federal governement in german!

For non english speakers, se habla espanol en freeones...lol

Oh...y una ultima pregunta.

Si el ingles no es el idioma oficial de E.U.A. (Estados Unidos de America), porque todos los presidentes siempre han usado el lenguage ingles para hablarle a los ciudadanos de E.U.A.? Presidentes (not the beer) deberian ahora aprender cuantos lenguages para seguir la constitucion y hablar POR y PARA todos los ciudadanos?

Perharps because of this:

The United States does not have an official language;[2] however, the majority of the population speaks English as a native language (about 82%.) The variety of English spoken in the United States is known as American English; together with Canadian English it makes up the group of dialects known as North American English. 96% of the population of the U.S. speaks English "well" or "very well".[3] There have been several proposals to make English the national language in amendments to immigration reform bills.[4][5] None of these bills have become law with the amendment intact.

The other percentage have Telemundo or other languages channel in which they can translate the presidente. It would be cool to see a president speaking spanglish..

 

[tubuler]

es la fiesta in me pantelonas!

 

[don_equis]

Come on fellas how many of you all don't want to have sex with a latina and tell her to tell you nasty things in spanish? besides they have brown nipples and fiesta en los pantalones!

 

[senob44]

I see that no one touched this one.

:wave: bye bye freedom and equality, it was nice knowing you.

People can speak whatever language they want to, in public or private. I just think that the government should not have to produce duplicate documents catering to various languages or offer multi-lingual options on their phone services and in their offices. The problem of people not knowing English will probably then largely fix itself.

 

[calpoon]

People can speak whatever language they want to, in public or private. I just think that the government should not have to produce duplicate documents catering to various languages or offer multi-lingual options on their phone services and in their offices. The problem of people not knowing English will probably then largely fix itself.

Bingo. that's my position.

But dawn, when you talk about all the presidents using English, you made me think. Didn't we fight two wars against England? We may have claimed our indpendance but we are still slaves to the tyrany of the King's tongue. Overthrow the English language! Do your patriotic duty!

also along those lines of thinking many states of the Us used to be territories of Spain, so really they have a Spanish speaking tradition more than they have an English one. So how is that more representative of the nation? Don't even get me started on Louisiana.