SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna mate

Like many male human mammals, other male species don't give a damn about genetic bs...and if a so called "genetic male" appears as female they will treat them as such, and even have sex...lol

More on Garter Snakes
Female Impersonators and Other Courtship Matters

Compiled by Melissa Kaplan


She-Male Snakes Need Their Love To Keep Them Warm
Current Science, 2/8/2002, Vol. 87 Issue 12, p12-13

NARCISSE, Canada—One of nature's strangest spectacles happens every spring in southern Manitoba. Tens of thousands of red-sided garter snakes emerge from their underground hibernation dens and engage in “mating balls.”

The male red-sided garters emerge first and wait patiently for the females to follow. Each time a female appears, the males surround her. The males look like a mass of “living spaghetti,” said Robert Mason, a zoologist at Oregon State University. The ball of snakes will writhe and sometimes even roll over land, until one male finally mates with the female.

The weirdest part of the spectacle occurs when some male red-sided garters impersonate females and find themselves at the center of a mating ball. These “she-male” snakes fool the males by exuding a female pheromone—a chemical released by one animal that affects another animal. The female pheromone fools male red-siders into thinking the she-male is a female.

Why the she-males act out this charade has long been a mystery. Now Mason and Rick Shine, a biologist from the University of Sydney in Australia, think they've found the answer.

All snakes are ectothermic, or cold-blooded. When a garter snake emerges from the cold ground, it is cold and lacking in energy until it's warmed by the sun. In such a state, the snake is vulnerable to attacks by predators. Previous studies have shown that she-male garters are slower and weaker than male garters and, hence, even more vulnerable.

The she-male's charade has two purposes, say the scientists. One: It warms the she-male garter like a blanket; and two: It surrounds him-her with a phalanx of bodyguards.

The annual red-garter mating balls are a big tourist attraction in Manitoba—and a source of many tales. One unsuspecting couple built a house on top of an empty snake pit one summer, only to find their property swarmed by thousands of red-sided garters returning to their traditional hibernation den in the fall. The couple quickly relocated their new house.

She-male garter snakes: Some like it hot.
Science News, 11/17/2001, Vol. 160 Issue 20, p311


Male garter snakes limping out of hibernation in northern Manitoba can mimic females and drive dozens of other guys to wriggle over them. The force behind this deluded orgy may not be sex, though.

Until now, scientists presumed that female mimicry gives its perpetrators an edge in mating, explains Rick Shine of the University of Sydney in Australia. But there's no evidence for any mating advantages for the "she-male" garter snakes, nor do scientists know how these awakening snakes attract other males.

The fakery needs a new explanation, argue Shine and his colleagues in the Nov. 15 Nature. They propose that these snakes creeping out of 8 months of chilled inactivity find that the ball of suitors provides body heat and protection from crows and other birds.

"If you're weak and slow and cold, what you want is a whole bunch of warm snakes on top of you," says Shine.

The animals observed in the new study belong to a subspecies of the garter snake found across much of North America. In Manitoba, garter snakes converge on the few spots suitable for hibernation without freezing. In spring, males emerge and wait for the sporadic rousing of females. "You can have 25,000 to 30,000 snakes in a den the size of an average living room," says Robert T. Mason of Oregon State University in Corvallis, a coauthor of the new study. When a female slides by, up to 100 males knot around her. She permits just one to mate.

Mason and a colleague first described a she-male mating ball in 1985, but scientists are still searching for its benefits.

To check heat transfer, the researchers monitored female snakes that birds had killed. Males courted the corpses, often heating them more than 3°C. In a temperature test with live females that started at 4°C, those courted in a mating ball warmed to 20°C faster than did those separated from any suitors.

The researchers also explored recovery from hibernation. They caught newly emerged males that attracted male attention. The she-males that researchers warmed to 28°C turned into regular guys within 3 hours, but those at 10°C still inspired courtship after 5 hours. This season, Mason hopes to check just-emerging male snakes for pheromones.

When the snakes emerge, birds gather and kill hundreds, say the investigators. Garter snakes have no venom and can only flee to defend themselves. In sprint tests, however, cold snakes move slowly. A courtship tangle could protect the insiders, the researchers propose.

"Female mimicry is pretty common," says Stephen M. Shuster of Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff. Some animals show a clear mating benefit from the deception. In a pill bug relative that Shuster studies, males with antlers on their rears defend cavities where females gather. Occasionally, a male with no antlers and the domed body shape typical of females flirts with the defender, enters the cavity unchallenged, and sires up to 60 percent of the females' offspring.

Barry R. Sinervo of the University of California, Santa Cruz sees mating advantages to female mimicry among side-blotched lizards. For she-male snakes, though, he calls the heat-and-safety payoff "a plausible idea" and predicts that researchers will consider it for other species. He says, "It really takes just one example, then people start looking more closely."


garterscinews.jpg

In northern Manitoba, deluded male garter snakes swarm over another male (arrow) still dusty and chilled from hibernation. Eager males court the newcomer regardless of its failure to mate.


Bumpus in the snake den: effects of sex, size, and body condition on mortality of red-sided garter snakes. Shine R, LeMaster MP, Moore IT, Olsson MM, Mason RT. Evolution Int J Org Evolution 2001 Mar;55(3):598-604

Conflicts between courtship and thermoregulation: the thermal ecology of amorous male garter snakes (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis, colubridae). Shine R, Harlow PS, Elphick MJ, Olsson MM, Mason RT.Physiol Biochem Zool 2000 Jul-Aug;73(4):508-16

The transvestite serpent: why do male garter snakes court (some) other males? Shine R, Harlow P, LeMaster MP, Moore IT, Mason RT. Anim Behav 2000 Feb;59(2):349-359

Plasma triglyceride and beta-hydroxybutyric acid levels in red-sided garter snakes (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis) at emergence from hibernation. Whittier JM, Mason RT.Experientia 1996 Feb 15;52(2):145-8

Female mimicry in garter snakes. Mason RT, Crews D. Nature 1985 Jul 4-10;316(6023):59-60

Social dynamics of group courtship behavior in male red-sided garter snakes (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis). Joy JE, Crews D. J Comp Psychol 1985 Jun;99(2):145-9

Ovarian development in red-sided garter snakes, Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis: relationship to mating. Whittier JM, Crews D. Gen Comp Endocrinol 1986 Jan;61(1):5-12

Hibernation in garter snakes (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis): seasonal cycles of cold tolerance. Joy JE, Crews D. Comp Biochem Physiol A 1987;87(4):1097-101

More on garters from PubMed, keyword: thamnophis

http://www.anapsid.org/garters2.html
 

squallumz

knows petras secret: she farted.
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

so... if it smells like trout, get the fuck out?
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

You would post this.
 

squallumz

knows petras secret: she farted.
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

one of my favouite lines from the sopranos: "did you know snakes can fuck themselves?"
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

the shemale snakes exude female pheromones, like bio females, and that's how they get the male attention.:D
And no, the snakes don't get killed for doing this...this only happens with human male neanderthals indoctrinated with socially constructed and accepted homohobia and transphobia
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

Snakes, as every animal, are driven by their instinct. They'd fuck any female snake.
Humans are different : they care about beauty of their partner.

If one person has a dick and two balls between her legs, he's a male and fucking him:being fucked by him is gay.
Final.

Anyway, I'm sure canadian taxpayers would be glad to learn that their taxes money is used to perform experiences on gentically created she-male snakes. :facepalm:
 

squallumz

knows petras secret: she farted.
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

and here we go.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

the shemale snakes exude female pheromones, like bio females, and that's how they get the male attention.:D
And no, the snakes don't get killed for doing this...this only happens with human male neanderthals indoctrinated with socially constructed and accepted homohobia and transphobia

I suspect you posted this thread deliberately to antagonise.

If you read the article you posted, the theory is that the snake mimics female pheromes, for warmth or so the other snakes protect it from predators, not because it craves male sexual attention.

Neanderthal homophobes pfft. Mind how you go on your stillettos today sir. Good day.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

This is not unlike a human male after 30 beers... :1orglaugh
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

I suspect you posted this thread deliberately to antagonise.

If you read the article you posted, the theory is that the snake mimics female pheromes, for warmth or so the other snakes protect it from predators, not because it craves male sexual attention.

Neanderthal homophobes pfft. Mind how you go on your stillettos today sir. Good day.

That's just a theory, and in other articles, it has been stated that some remain shemales throughout the whole mating season, not just until they get warm. If you had a good insight, you would also have gotten the hint that I was refering to the males reaction, despite the shemale actual motives. And about neantherthal homophobes: if the shoe fits..:D
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

It's pretty interesting to see how other living things treat those who are sexually different. You'd hope that the most advanced species of all (humans) would be able to embrace those differences the way these snakes do but based on some of the posts in this thread we are nowhere near that day yet.

Having a dick and balls between your legs doesn't make you a man. Apparently you guys have never seen the various t-girls that have just that and are very attractive. I actually discovered that from this very forum.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

I suspect you posted this thread deliberately to antagonise.

If you read the article you posted, the theory is that the snake mimics female pheromes, for warmth or so the other snakes protect it from predators, not because it craves male sexual attention.

Neanderthal homophobes pfft. Mind how you go on your stillettos today sir. Good day.

That's just a theory, and in other articles, it has been stated that some remain shemales throughout the whole mating season, not just until they get warm. If you had a good insight, you would also have gotten the hint that I was refering to the males reaction, despite the shemale actual motives. And about neantherthal homophobes: if the shoe fits..:D

They remain that way all season due to it's effectiveness. They pretty much go with what works. The idea that this is purely some sexually charged reactionary act is not accurate. This is done purely out of necessity for survival.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

Having a dick and balls between your legs doesn't make you a man. Apparently you guys have never seen the various t-girls that have just that and are very attractive. I actually discovered that from this very forum.

...no but it makes you MALE. Why are we constantly taking the ability to simply CHOOSE out of the equation. It's not really that complex. People just want to be way more complex than they are, and can't accept the easiest of answers. People choose what they want and what they like. Even babies do this... they choose what tastes good to them and react towards it.

Apples and Oranges. Sometimes both. It's not difficult.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

They remain that way all season due to it's effectiveness. They pretty much go with what works. The idea that this is purely some sexually charged reactionary act is not accurate. This is done purely out of necessity for survival.

I was making a remark about the reaction of the males, despite the sheale genetics. Some would argue that anything that doesn't lead to an offspring, is anti-Darwin...but as we can see is more complicated than that.
BTW, not even human 'shemales' become so out of a "purely sexually charged reactionary act." Is more complicated than that.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

I was making a remark about the reaction of the males, despite the sheale genetics. Some would argue that anything that doesn't lead to an offspring, is anti-Darwin...but as we can see is more complicated than that.
BTW, not even human 'shemales' become so out of a "purely sexually charged reactionary act." Is more complicated than that.

I know. They do so because it's what makes them feel most comfortable lifestyle-wise. This has nothing to do with the snakes.
 

Scarface7

Banned
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

Satan was a snake.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

...no but it makes you MALE. Why are we constantly taking the ability to simply CHOOSE out of the equation. It's not really that complex. People just want to be way more complex than they are, and can't accept the easiest of answers. People choose what they want and what they like. Even babies do this... they choose what tastes good to them and react towards it.

Apples and Oranges. Sometimes both. It's not difficult.

And? Isn't the whole basis for transgenderism and transsexualism based the fact that the brain sex is different/at odds with the biological sex?:dunno:
Even scientists don't rely just on genitalia to determine sex, as there are cases of genetic females (xx) with penises...Yes, exception to the rule, but so are shemales.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

And? Isn't the whole basis for transgenderism and transsexualism based the fact that the brain sex is different/at odds than the biological sex?
Even scientists don't rely just on genitalia to determine sex, as there are cases of genetic females (xx) with penises...Yes, exception to the rule, but so are shemales.

It's was specified: DICK AND BALLS. The notion that brain sex is different than biological sex is asinine. No this isn't the basis for transgenderism and transsexualism. The basis is all in what you like and don't like, and your willingness to accept and live with that. Eliminating our ability to decide based on our own taste and comfort takes an element of humanity out of the whole equation.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

It's pretty interesting to see how other living things treat those who are sexually different. You'd hope that the most advanced species of all (humans) would be able to embrace those differences the way these snakes do but based on some of the posts in this thread we are nowhere near that day yet.

Having a dick and balls between your legs doesn't make you a man. Apparently you guys have never seen the various t-girls that have just that and are very attractive. I actually discovered that from this very forum.


Exactly, transgenderism has been observed in animals, yet not even animals react to it the way some so-called humans do (going as far as murder). The reason why is because homopobia and transpobia are not "natural" feelings, but plain and simple, socially constructed bigotry.
 
Re: SHEMALE SNAKES: Males say: screw genetics! If it smells like a female, I'm gonna

Exactly, transgenderism has been observed in animals, yet not even animals react to it the way some so-called humans do (going as far as murder). The reason why is because homopobia and transpobia are not "natural" feelings, but plain and simple, socially constructed bigotry.

Sorry, but the reason is simply difference. People react to what they feel is different than they. We go as far as murder for racism as well. Why? Mere perception of difference. That's where the 'fear' is rooted.
 
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