Racist and Racism

[Hot Mega]

I don't think there's much racism out there.

What I do believe exists is TRIBALISM, race is just one way of defining who's in the tribe, and who's outside the tribe.

Tribalism was around thousands of years before racism, racism is just way of defining it, and now that textbook racism has died down, what we see is tribalism.

I believe human males are programed for it, those who try to escape it are often done in by tribalism, so it seems like tribalism is a self-selecting pathology.

Thousands of years ago places were far more homogeneous in terms of race. Therefore preference and prejudice along racial, ethinic, etc. lines wouldn't likely be as prevalent until different races began to live amongst each other.

While there is tribalism as it seems you use it as a more benign substitute for preference among like persons....abject racism in the form of bigotry and hatred is still quite pervasive ...the difference only being it's not as overt.

Over time the typically overt examples of it have been fairly rejected and marginalized. As a consequence IMO many now who may have racist tendencies but don't like the label have tended to recast or redefine their views to be less overt.

 

[pete rose]

imagine a foreigner in the usa seeing 2 blacks say " what up ******" to each other, all smiley faced and stuff.
then that same light skinned foreigner walks up to both the blacks and says " hey what up ******s" , and gets a brutal beating by both.

How would you explain why that happened to the foreigner?

man this is new thread material is it not?
seriously though, how would you explain that in a way that makes sense?

It would be different if they were actually calling each other ******. You Might want to soften that r. What point are you trying to make?

 

[Hot Mega]

imagine a foreigner in the usa seeing 2 blacks say " what up ******" to each other, all smiley faced and stuff.
then that same light skinned foreigner walks up to both the blacks and says " hey what up ******s" , and gets a brutal beating by both.

How would you explain why that happened to the foreigner?

man this is new thread material is it not?
seriously though, how would you explain that in a way that makes sense?

Well English teacher, one way might be to explain the how context in many languages can change the intent and/or meaning of identical words and phrases.

Example 1.

Mom in response to kid knocking over lamp: "I'm going to kill you!"

Serial killer to pending victim no. 10: "I'm going to kill you!"

"Kill" means (roughly) to end a life. However, the above two statements though identical would (or should) clearly be interpreted differently due to the context of each.

Example 2.

Meester plays a practical joke on friend, friends responds, "Asshole!". Meester and friend laugh.

Meester on a New Jersey turnpike cuts off some old grandma, he turns and can scarcely make out her lip movements to say, "Asshole!".

There. 1 word, 2 different interpretations based on the context of it's use.:hatsoff:

 

[meesterperfect]

thats different.
in my example the meaning was the same.
from both the foreigner and the fellow blacks the word was used in the form of a greeting.
the context was the same, the speakers were the only variable.

 

[Hot Mega]

thats different.
in my example the meaning was the same.
from both the foreigner and the fellow blacks the word was used in the form of a greeting.
the context was the same, the speakers were the only variable.

English teacher context is not only about intent but more importantly interpretation. So the "variable" is still context.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

Thousands of years ago places were far more homogeneous in terms of race. Therefore preference and prejudice along racial, ethinic, etc. lines wouldn't likely be as prevalent until different races began to live amongst each other.

While there is tribalism as it seems you use it as a more benign substitute for preference among like persons....abject racism in the form of bigotry and hatred is still quite pervasive ...the difference only being it's not as overt.

Over time the typically overt examples of it have been fairly rejected and marginalized. As a consequence IMO many now who may have racist tendencies but don't like the label have tended to recast or redefine their views to be less overt.

I don't think it's benign, it's the cause of many wars, lynchings, murder, rape, theft, persecution, lies etc. etc.

It's both benign and malignant. Tribalism is the motivating factor, as liberals call it, "the creation of the other."

I think racism was one form of tribalism, and as racism has declined in most of America, we define our tribes in more complex ways.

Humans have lived in vulnerable bands for almost all of our existence, so tribalism is hardwired into us because those who did not distinguish between 'tribes' were killed by the environment or each other.

 

[Hot Mega]

I don't think it's benign, it's the cause of many wars, lynchings, murder, rape, theft, persecution, lies etc. etc.

It's both benign and malignant. Tribalism is the motivating factor, as liberals call it, "the creation of the other."

I think racism was one form of tribalism, and as racism has declined in most of America, we define our tribes in more complex ways.

Humans have lived in vulnerable bands for almost all of our existence, so tribalism is hardwired into us because those who did not distinguish between 'tribes' were killed by the environment or each other.

I tend to disagree. We humans have come along way from the spartan, crude mentality of tribalism in the conscious sense. We understand most elements of socializing and human interaction.

In other words, we're intelligent enough now to know what our motivations are and even if not...we are not wild animals straying into foreign prides to be killed because we don't know any better.

My reference to it being benign is in the sense tribalism in this discussion sounds to the average ear as less menacing and simple human nature. When racist bigotry for example sounds and is more menacing and not accepted as average human behavior.

 

[pete rose]

Tribalism or not, who cares? We're not trying to justify racism.

 

[bustybbwlover]

Tribalism or not, who cares? We're not trying to justify racism.

well...some of us aren't...here's the shit as i see it anyone who seeks to establish separation fuck them! we are one race the human race i know that's not the way it looks right now while people in america and other 'first world nations' have water from tap that's drinkable and people in africa and other nations only have access to water that is poison but i don't identify with or support the powers that be that have allowed this to happen...fuck the powers that be they seek to separate and control by whatever means necessary

 

[meesterperfect]

English teacher context is not only about intent but more importantly interpretation. So the "variable" is still context.

the variable is race in that situation.
too many blacks will accept being called ****** by other blacks but if a white person said it many would get angry and violent.
that is reality in the usa.

so if that is true, and it is, then who is the racist in that situation?
who is basing there thoughts and reactions on race?

also, i teach english, not sociology.
part of the process is teaching context of words/phrases when they have more than one meaning, but i would never get into who can say what to who based on race in that fucked up country.

I don't really see why the debate here.
in response to the op's initial post, does anybody not think that the usage of the words racist and racism are used way too much in the usa?
and of course always directed to one group?
does anyone here really think that those words are used so much that theyve lost meaning? that its just gone to a point of being ridiculous?

 

[jjo_is4]

^ You just don't get it do you meesterperfect? I don't think you understand racism at all but you have helped me realize why it will always be a "major" problem. :2 cents:

 

[neighborboy]

If you spend your time worrying about why you aren't allowed to go around dropping N-bombs around black people, chances are you're a racist.

 

[1ManRevolution]

Well English teacher, one way might be to explain the how context in many languages can change the intent and/or meaning of identical words and phrases.

Example 1.

Mom in response to kid knocking over lamp: "I'm going to kill you!"

Serial killer to pending victim no. 10: "I'm going to kill you!"

"Kill" means (roughly) to end a life. However, the above two statements though identical would (or should) clearly be interpreted differently due to the context of each.

Example 2.

Meester plays a practical joke on friend, friends responds, "Asshole!". Meester and friend laugh.

Meester on a New Jersey turnpike cuts off some old grandma, he turns and can scarcely make out her lip movements to say, "Asshole!".

There. 1 word, 2 different interpretations based on the context of it's use.:hatsoff:

Context is everything

 

[Hot Mega]

the variable is race in that situation.
too many blacks will accept being called ****** by other blacks but if a white person said it many would get angry and violent.
that is reality in the usa.

so if that is true, and it is, then who is the racist in that situation?
who is basing there thoughts and reactions on race?

also, i teach english, not sociology.
part of the process is teaching context of words/phrases when they have more than one meaning, but i would never get into who can say what to who based on race in that fucked up country.

I don't really see why the debate here.
in response to the op's initial post, does anybody not think that the usage of the words racist and racism are used way too much in the usa?
and of course always directed to one group?
does anyone here really think that those words are used so much that theyve lost meaning? that its just gone to a point of being ridiculous?

Last I checked "context clues" were taught in English not Sociology.

I'm not going to diatribe on this as it's pretty simple. But as I understand it, blacks rarely if ever refer to themselves or (just) other blacks as "******". And it's context is rarely if ever racist. "shimmy" is a black guy who used the word in general terms here a few times...never once has he spelled it that way. Not that the subtle difference is anything but noteworthy, just thought it was worth mentioning.

But the most basic problem you are still having is the notion of who can or can't say something. Anyone can say anything. However, we look for it's context to draw meaning from it. For example, Carroll O'Connor commonly said the word..but the context was as an actor playing a racist. Because of that, no one reasonably looked upon O'Connor merely stating it on a production set as being himself racist.

There are many words that can be derogatory or may not be depending on the context. You ask for an explanation, the simple explanation is context. Most people can understand that. Only someone thinking they have a thread to pull in exploiting the circumstance probably couldn't.

And again, blacks don't usually use the word in a racist context so it's not uncommon for them to refer to anyone with the term. Here's an example...

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

the variable is race in that situation.
too many blacks will accept being called ****** by other blacks but if a white person said it many would get angry and violent.
that is reality in the usa.

so if that is true, and it is, then who is the racist in that situation?
who is basing there thoughts and reactions on race?

also, i teach english, not sociology.
part of the process is teaching context of words/phrases when they have more than one meaning, but i would never get into who can say what to who based on race in that fucked up country.

I don't really see why the debate here.
in response to the op's initial post, does anybody not think that the usage of the words racist and racism are used way too much in the usa?
and of course always directed to one group?
does anyone here really think that those words are used so much that theyve lost meaning? that its just gone to a point of being ridiculous?

I don't know why you seem so afraid of angering black people, they use that fear to bully white (and often non-white) people into doing what they want. I grew up around black people and the best way to save your skin is to beat the crap out of a few of them and they'll learn to leave you alone. I've noticed a lot of black guys kind of go into shock if you punch them because they are programmed to believe that no one will stand up for themselves. That gives you just enough time to get a combo or choke in (or hightail it lol) and win the fight.

Don't take crap from black people and they'll start to act a lot more normal.

 

[Hot Mega]

I don't know why you seem so afraid of angering black people, they use that fear to bully white (and often non-white) people into doing what they want. I grew up around black people and the best way to save your skin is to beat the crap out of a few of them and they'll learn to leave you alone. I've noticed a lot of black guys kind of go into shock if you punch them because they are programmed to believe that no one will stand up for themselves. That gives you just enough time to get a combo or choke in (or hightail it lol) and win the fight.

Don't take crap from black people and they'll start to act a lot more normal.

Wow. Well first, I don't think meester is in fear of offending blacks. He's obviously obsessed with the notion. As if his daily experiences rate enough on his radar to justify his obsession.

But wow! I didn't know blacks were the only ones who respond to an ass kicking by not fucking with you again.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) in my day I had the occasion to ass kick a few different types of guys and I didn't notice a difference in their reaction to getting their ass kicked according to race. Some had to be hurt up a little more to understand they were on the losing end of that close encounter than others but it didn't vary by race.

But hey, since we're generalizing in this thread to begin with, why go here? From my experience it has nothing to do with race...but the kind of guy you're fucking with.

 

[pete rose]

To: This thread

 

[meesterperfect]

^ You just don't get it do you meesterperfect? I don't think you understand racism at all but you have helped me realize why it will always be a "major" problem. :2 cents:

yes i understand racism.
what makes you think i don't?
its something that white people have for blacks.
right?
and you know what? its not a major problem because there really isnt too much of it in the states.
at least the only racism that most people want to acknowledge .
one problem is people judging and deciding who can say what about who and to who.
"are you white? oh you can't say that" = racism in its most basic level.
and thats the biggest form of racism today in the states and because of that people are afraid to speak and think.
as ive said a million times before i just want the usa folks to unite and stop all the stupid accusations of racism. its nonsense and it only hurts everybody.

If you spend your time worrying about why you aren't allowed to go around dropping N-bombs around black people, chances are you're a racist.

totally wrong again boy. but nice example of what my point was.
btw youve got cooties too.

mega, again in my example the context was the same.
it was a greeting, nothing more.
and nothing ive ever said should offend blacks because ive never said anything demeaning about them.
i have offended a lot of white people here but their guilt complex is not my problem.

boidefensegrad i think You Misunderstood my posts.

the op was about the overuse of the word racist and racism in the usa today.
but the arguments must begin as if you can't say what the op said.
its forbidden.
the words are very overused and arguing that theyre not is like arguing over what color an orange is.

 

[PlumpRump]

Ok, serious question: What if I stub my toe, or accidentally hit my elbow on a door jamb, or something similarly clumsy, and I remark, out of pain and surprise: "******!" Would that be considered racist? The intent of being racist or hateful towards the door jamb isn't there, the context is the use of an interjection to remark on my pain, and an inanimate object cannot, IMO, be of any type of racial group. Is it racist? Or is it no harm (no harm intended nor felt), no foul?

Is the racism of that comment (or lack thereof) decreased if I am alone (tree falling, no one around type stuff), increased if in a small group or around animals etc...?

 

[meesterperfect]

man today you can say that the hands on a clock are black and be accused of racism by half the US population.
We've really advanced though.