Prescribed heroin (!)

[Timbobjambo]

**** is not legal in Holland, smoking weed/hash is allowed but still selling/dealing or "making" is *******. They allow selling it in cofee-shops but technically its still ******* what they are doing.

If you ever been to Holland specially Amsterdam and Utrecht you can buy **** on every corner. everybody is aware of this problem but still its still happening.

 

[jamrak]

I can't tell someone what to do to their body.

Will E Worm, I think that the biggest difference between masochists who just like to ******* themselves and **** addicts is that **** addicts are the menace to other people due either to their inadequate behaviour under the influence of some sorts of *****, and due to their asocial lifestyle.

When it comes to destroying your brains, it is more dangerous than just imapling your dick with some nine inch nails :eek:

Cuz people with sick mentality can cause a lot of troubles for others. And from this point of view the rights of a man do end where the rights of other man start.

When it is ******, people need to step over some psychological barrier to start taking *****. They know that it is dangerous, *******, and they need to be dare enough or stupid enough to jump in it. At least they are informed and warned.

But if law said that it is OK to take heroine, much more people would like to taste it. Cuz "it is nothing wrong with it, it is even legal, so why not?". Since it is ****** there is at least one convincing answer to the question "why not" - cuz it is against the law. (the answer "it is bad for your health" is not working for many people)

 

[calpoon]

it's a total double standard, there are plenty of things that are encouraged in society that are far worse than *****. how about war? people blowing each other to **** is Ok, but god forbid that they should get high. how about chemicals and pollution? car accidents **** millions. everyday accidents in the work-place **** tens of thousands of people.

Of course **** addiction is a serious problem, but let's get our priorities straight here.

on another note we need to get over this total primitive notion of good and evil, like people do bad things because the devil on their shoulder told them to. people do bad things because they have a reason to believe that it is worth it for them, if they were able to fulfill there needs without doing bad things, then they wouldn't do them. pretty simple. or else they are people with a disease that prevents them from functioning normally and they require medical treatment.

but instead we choose to ignore any of the motivating factors that would actually help to solve the problem and prevent crime, and instead we declare war on another intangible idea that can never be won... which serves great the people in the never-ending war business, too bad it kind of fucks the rest of society.

 

[Will E Worm]

Jamrak I know, but people have been and always will find ways to buy ***** any kind they want. There's a better way. Just like Amsterdam has a few ***** in coffee houses, so should every country.

Not that I condone or take *****. Making something ******* doesn't mean much. People will always find a way to buy *****.

it's a total double standard, there are plenty of things that are encouraged in society that are far worse than *****. how about war? people blowing each other to **** is Ok, but god forbid that they should get high. how about chemicals and pollution? car accidents **** millions. everyday accidents in the work-place **** tens of thousands of people.

Of course **** addiction is a serious problem, but let's get our priorities straight here.

Just like Bill Maher said, "Let the government f*ck you up". :1orglaugh

He said that after explaining how someone was arrested with mushrooms when they were on their way to Vegas.

Because of my conditions I can walk into a hospital and get just about any kind of legal **** I need. I have before, without question.

 

[D-rock]

on another note we need to get over this total primitive notion of good and evil, like people do bad things because the devil on their shoulder told them to. people do bad things because they have a reason to believe that it is worth it for them, if they were able to fulfill there needs without doing bad things, then they wouldn't do them. pretty simple. or else they are people with a disease that prevents them from functioning normally and they require medical treatment.

but instead we choose to ignore any of the motivating factors that would actually help to solve the problem and prevent crime, and instead we declare war on another intangible idea that can never be won... which serves great the people in the never-ending war business, too bad it kind of fucks the rest of society.

I always believe people ultimately have to take responsibility for what they do, so I'm with you on them not being able to blame it on the devil or anything like that. I also know people do bad things because they feel situations ***** them to even if it was wrong and they know it. On the other hand there are truly people out there that are sick and evil and just get off on doing bad things for no other reason than they like it, or they want to see other people suffer. It's not always based on motivation other than that.

 

[jamrak]

Hm, I still think that the risk factor is very important. When you know that you can go to jail, or have other serious problems with law because of some **** realted ****, you will ask yourself twice "do I need to risk so much? does this experiment with heroine worth it?" And this will stop many people from taking *****.

When there is no risk at all, when you do not need to find a special way to buy it, when there are no obstacles to overcome - much more people would like to experience that **** trip. And this is very dangerous.

When it comes to ***** - the more obstacles you need to fight - the better for you. And let the law be one of that obstacles.

Of course people can find the way to buy it even in the countries where it is ******. But it should not become more easy to find *****, to buy, to get access to them. not trying to impose my opinion to anybody, but this is just what I think...

 

[calpoon]

well what do you mean "**** related ****"? the wide majority of crimes associated with ***** deal with people trying to get them or else simply the act of possessing and selling them. Both of these would be eliminated with easy access to *****.

the only real danger to society that they pose is that people who are taking them will be harmed by their effects, but as you say, this is not a big enough motivator to stop people from doing them.

and so what it really boils down to is should be be punished for being self-destructive? that seems kind of absurd to me. I don't see how that is going to help anything.

the shittier that your situation is, the more you say, "man, I want to do some ***** right now to get away from this."

 

[jamrak]

calpoon, I'll try to explain.

Without legalized ***** we already have a lot of problems in the society. Lets take *******. Do you agree that it causes a lot of troubles? Car accidents with ******* drivers. *******, *****, and a lot of other crimes are commited under the influence of ******* (in some countries more than half of all registered crimes are commited by ******* people). Is it bad? Yes it is.

If hard ***** were legal, we would have to add all the troubles that we already have with ******* to the new troubles caused by *****.
Now we have ******* drivers. Tomorrow we might have to deal with drivers on heroine.
Now we have crimes commited during delirium tremens, tomorrow we will have them together with crimes commited under the influence of hallucinogenic stuff.
Today we have a lot of cases of spousal assault due to aclohol, tomorrow it will be expanded with the cases due to ****-taking. And so on.

What I am trying to say, that in addition to all the problem that we have nowadays, we will recieve a wide range of crimes/accidents caused by people with **** *********** brains.
Or do you believe that all ****-takers will take ***** in their beds? We will face a lot of people who "got high" everywhere, and even in the places absolutely incompatible with "hazy conscience". Who will control it? Who will control and restrict people from taking heroine everywhere, if it is legal?

As you say before, there are a lot of other troubles in the world: wars, polution, etc etc. But I come to the different conclusion from that fact. Yes, there are a lot of problems. But this is not the reason to add some more. The existance of some problems does not give an excuse to create new ones!

 

[Torre82]

The good news.. it's okay to regulate something as dangerous and possibly impure as *****.

The bad news.. it wont work until people realize that what you buy from a dealer is pisspoor quality that is much.. MUCH more harmful than something made in a lab.

Would you rather someone get addicted to cheap bullshit with harmful additives or get just-enough of something carefully measured by a government laboratory? Sheesh.

There isnt a right or wrong, it's just varying levels of acceptable. See it as a better alternative to buying **** off the street, already!

 

[Dawn]

The existance of some problems does not give an excuse to create new ones!

I don't understand how legalizing ***** will create a new problem.

Even while its *******, all of what you described happends all days long, everywhere in most of our countries. If ***** were legal, it would be the same.

 

[Friday on my mind]

******* has been mentioned and I think a comparison of it to other ***** is approriate.There were actaully very good reasons for the prohibition on ******* we had once as it is very dangerous(people get violent etc) and ***** more people than all the other ***** put together.But prohibition was still a cure worse then the disease and was rightfully repealed.I see commercials for **** with hot chicks talking about "drinkability" of budweiser with the same implicartion that a lot of the commercials have,drink **** get hot chicks lol.I then think geez you can't have commercials for cigarettes but this is allowed? While I would be against a **** prohibition I do think those commercials should be taken off the air,no need to allow the product to be glamorized and promoted the way it is IMO.Same thing should apply to other mind altering intoxicants.I would even have PSA's trying to educate the public of the downsides of all these substances,*******,***** etc.But in the final analysis IMO adults should be free to ingest whatever substances they wish.And again the downsides of trying to prohibit such things for peoples own good outweigh the good done as we found out in prohibition and IMO has been demonstrated by the war on *****.

 

[calpoon]

well I see your point jamrak. except that people are not going to be shooting dope and then driving around. what usually happens is that you fall down on the floor and lay there for a few hours and then get up and shake, sweat, ****, **** and **** for the rest of the day until you repeat the process, aint it great. But I digress, that is why I think there has to be a better way to deal with these problems than the ridiculous justice system that doesn't work. All it does is punish people which accomplishes nothing but making us feel better knowing that we did something, even if it was pointless and didn't solve any problems.

 

[LBP 76]

To my knowledge, heroin is the only physically addictive, major recreational **** (meth and crack/**** aren't physically addictive). Once you are a heroin addict, you're one for life. That's why it's SO hard to quit.
If the dosage the government gives is sufficient only to control withdrawl symptoms with no/minimal 'stimulating' effects, fine. But each person's dosage should be different as some need less then others.
Also, there should be a small fee to the user. Even if it's just $25 a week/month. After all, no one starts regularly shooting heroin without knowing the risk of addiction. No one.

 

[Torre82]

To my knowledge, heroin is the only physically addictive, major recreational **** (meth and crack/**** aren't physically addictive). Once you are a heroin addict, you're one for life. That's why it's SO hard to quit.
If the dosage the government gives is sufficient only to control withdrawl symptoms with minimal 'stimulating' effects, fine. But each person's dosage should be different as some need less then others.
Also, there should be a small fee to the user. Even if it's just $25 a week/month. After all, no one starts regularly shooting heroin without knowing the risk of addiction. No one.

I'm finding a huge fault with that statement. People are never, NEVER truly aware of the risk of anything. Browsing the internet can **** your computer.. steal your identity.

Driving a car can end your life, and anyone else's.

Getting laid starts a lifelong addiction to orgasms.

Noone truly knows what they're getting into in life. We all have bad days.. good days.. and on those days oftentimes we'll just say 'Fuck it' and just throw back a pill, toss down a few drinks.. whatever. We're vulnerable and we dont know what we're tying into our lives.

 

[LBP 76]

I'm finding a huge fault with that statement. People are never, NEVER truly aware of the risk of anything. Browsing the internet can **** your computer.. steal your identity.

Driving a car can end your life, and anyone else's.

Getting laid starts a lifelong addiction to orgasms.

Noone truly knows what they're getting into in life. We all have bad days.. good days.. and on those days oftentimes we'll just say 'Fuck it' and just throw back a pill, toss down a few drinks.. whatever. We're vulnerable and we dont know what we're tying into our lives.

No offense man, but throwing back a drink or downing a pill are miles away from shooting heroin. Please find me one heroin addict who did not know beforehand that it is VERY addictive. I've never known one. They all did, but they were all just too desperate, too arrogant or too depressed to care.

 

[jamrak]

Even while its *******, all of what you described happends all days long, everywhere in most of our countries. If ***** were legal, it would be the same.

1. I think that total amount of people taking ***** increase when it will be legal.

2. The amount of people who walk the street, drive the car and do other usual things on ***** will be MUCH bigger than now. Because nowadays most of people affraid to do it openly. When it is legal - no one will affraid to do it. It will increase the amount of *********** people in many times. Do not you see a problem in that? When you drive a car, and then see that some guy starts to jump on the road in front of you, or falls ****** at the wheel after heroine *********. There are already a lot of alcoholics who act this way, but with legal ***** new group of people who will start to bring that troubles.

3. I already said about it in the previous post, but how do you think it can be regulated: if heroine is legal, and there is no law against it, everybody can take it everywhere. In the park, in the autobus. At the beach. Or should be there any speical regualtions of how and where you can take it? Who will control it? The police? How do you imagine that? Will it be more easy than when ***** are completely ******? Like "hey, man, get your syringe away, do not do it here, do it there"? Instead of *******, it does not have a smell. When a bus driver arrives at his work in the morning after heroine *********, how could you test him? "No ***** at workplace"? Easy to say, hard to do. When you can buy them legally in ****-store. And when some of them have long period of influence. And have accumulative effect upon the organism (slower reaction, retardation etc).
And this is only heroine. What about hallucinations? People can start shooting in what they seem to see. do they shoot nowadays? yes. But again, the amout of people, who will openly use ***** will increase. And the amount of actions aroused by hallucinations will increase either.

Well, in other words, do you agree that nowadays there are more ******* people in the streets than people on *****? I am dare to say that is like that just because ******* is legal, and ***** are not. Imagine that one day there will be the same amount of people who got high, as people who are *****. Roughly, twice more uncontrolled people. Isn't it a bigger problem for normal citizens, who will have to live among those "high" individuals, and how can they be ready for their unpredicted actions?

 

[Torre82]

No offense man, but throwing back a drink or downing a pill are miles away from shooting heroin. Please find me one heroin addict who did not know beforehand that it is VERY addictive. I've never known one. They all did, but they were all just too desperate or too depressed to care.

Noone warns you how a genetic background that is predisposed towards alcoholism is.. noone tells you how easy it is to get addicted to painkillers or amphetamines.

Everyone says it about hardcore *****, but they also include things like **** and weed in that mix. When people finally try weed.. it's harmless. If you try a line or two of ****.. it just keeps you up an extra 6-12 hours. (Throws the ******** schedule to hell and back..but..) Noone can prepare you for an addiction. Hearing the risks and knowing firsthand the risks are completely different things. There isnt a proper preparation for heroin NOR drinking or.. hell, even caffeine addictions. It just happens and before you know it someone finds that they cant **** up, they cant get thru the day without it.. right? But no matter what you tell someone, that isnt sharing the true experience.

But eh.. yeah. Heroin isnt something anyone should even try. Pandora's box.

 

[BlueBalls]

I'm finding a huge fault with that statement. People are never, NEVER truly aware of the risk of anything. Browsing the internet can **** your computer.. steal your identity.

Driving a car can end your life, and anyone else's.

Getting laid starts a lifelong addiction to orgasms.

Noone truly knows what they're getting into in life. We all have bad days.. good days.. and on those days oftentimes we'll just say 'Fuck it' and just throw back a pill, toss down a few drinks.. whatever. We're vulnerable and we dont know what we're tying into our lives.

I dont think thats true, yes there are added risks to anything but when it comes to heroin especially in this day in age know all the risks involved in staring. Maybe in the 1800s people didnt know. But today we are bombarded with informations about *****, this includes ******* and tobacco but people who smoke choose their own destiny when they start taking them.

We are also bombarded with the risk factors of getting into cars, planes, boats everyday. So to say that people dont know the risks isnt true. People might try to ignore the risks and plead ignorance when something bad happens to them, but in this day in age with all the information and research out there spelling out the risks no one can say they are not aware of the risks.

 

[Torre82]

I dont think thats true, yes there are added risks to anything but when it comes to heroin especially in this day in age know all the risks involved in staring. Maybe in the 1800s people didnt know. But today we are bombarded with informations about *****, this includes ******* and tobacco but people who smoke choose their own destiny when they start taking them.

We are also bombarded with the risk factors of getting into cars, planes, boats everyday. So to say that people dont know the risks isnt true. People might try to ignore the risks and plead ignorance when something bad happens to them, but in this day in age with all the information and research out there spelling out the risks no one can say they are not aware of the risks.

Perhaps. A small boy is ****** wolf about ***** again. How many times do the villagers listen to his Premium Link Upgrade wail?

If everyone knew the risks, there wouldnt be Premium Link Upgrade to anything. 'Nuff said.

 

[LBP 76]

If your point Torre82min is that heroin addicts are not to be blamed or held responsible for their addiction I am going to always disagree with you.
*****, pills, tobacco, ********, sex, porn, binge eating, overwork, danger...all of these are addictions people can fall into. Even crack or meth.
But not heroin.

As I said before, find me one heroin addict (especially in 'the West') who was not aware it was very addictive before they started. I doubt you can.