A step backwatrds for porsche, worst designed car for porsche since the Cayenne! Lets face its porsche designers have not really raised the bar an awful lot since the first inacarnation of the 911, dew tweaks here few tweaks there. Yes i understand its a process of evolution but its hardly changed since the 1960s. Ferrari on the other hand never seems to stand still always continually redefining themselves!
Porsche Panamera
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Wainkerr99
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Fits right in with the bald head, one day old designer stubble and Armani suit. Its made for the 21C modern man, and his blonde boss.
I hope they blow it to smithereens in the next Bond movie.
I hope they blow it to smithereens in the next Bond movie.
Me go with this^
Although this is the ugliest porsche ever created... Premium Link Upgrade
:anonymous
Even Tom Brady couldn't get laid driving that thing...
the average buyer hasn't noticed that a "bentley" continental is just a VW phaeton with uglier body panels (and it's heavy not because it has more stuff in it, but merely because they place two lead weights in the trunk to balance the weight of the engine, which hangs out ahead of the front axle, undoubtedly the most retarded engine configuration in the history of the automobile).
the "lamborghini" gallardo shares its basic engine architecture with that of the 5-cylinder golf engine, and just like that golf engine, it's slapped together in some hungarian plant. some italian exotic this is...
bugatti... what is that? just a badge. they could have placed any badge on that VW-developed car. my guess is the next "bugatti" will be a variation of the "bentley" continental/VW phaeton.
fiat has owned ferrari since the 70s 9or even earlier?), and thankfully have kept their hands off it... with the exception of the new california, which is built on the same platform as the vastly cheaper and staggeringly more beautiful maserati gran turismo.
ford's ownership of jaguar was a fucking disaster, producing one turd after another, and never making a profit. the indians can only go up from here, i wish them luck.
to get back to the subject of porsche: the german press is already talking about a shared car (a 4-cylinder) as a VW sportscar/entry level porsche, and there will be a new porsche SUV based on the audi Q5. porsche already sells VW's 6 cylinder engine in the cayenne, and VW diesel engines are available in european cayennes as well. a porsche GTI is not as much of a stretch as you might think.
they call this platform engineered crap 'progress', but it's really just cost-cutting. one must bow down to economic realities to survive, perhaps; but i think it's sad. how long before only paint and a badge differentiate all cars from one another?
I think that this marriage between VW and Porsche will result in a proliferation of Porsche models and introduction of new, cheaper Porsches with more selling potential, like the above mentioned 4-cylinder. Of course, something like that was unthinkable up to now and still hard to believe, but then again - 2 or 3 years back a Porsche spokesperson firmly stated that Porsche will never make a diesel powered car, and now you can buy a diesel Cayenne.
Take Audi, for example. First you had the A4 sedan and station wagon, and the A6 station wagon. Then they decided to make the A5 - a coupe based on A4. So they made it. And then someone at Audi came to an idea, why not make a station wagon based on A5? And now you have it - the A5 sportback, a coupe - station wagon! Will somebdy please explain what the fuck is that?
So, don't be surprised if Porsche suddenly launches a 4-cylinder hatchback (with a diesel powered version as well), a couple more SUVs, a middle class sedan etc.
Take Audi, for example. First you had the A4 sedan and station wagon, and the A6 station wagon. Then they decided to make the A5 - a coupe based on A4. So they made it. And then someone at Audi came to an idea, why not make a station wagon based on A5? And now you have it - the A5 sportback, a coupe - station wagon! Will somebdy please explain what the fuck is that?
So, don't be surprised if Porsche suddenly launches a 4-cylinder hatchback (with a diesel powered version as well), a couple more SUVs, a middle class sedan etc.
^
But why would Porsche go in all of those directions? Companies fail when they overextend themselves for no other reason than for profits. When a company is known for doing 1 thing (making the 911), that's what they should do. As Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." Stick with what made you great. Nobody is sick and tired of the 911. Is it sucky to be a Porsche employee and have to work on the 911?? Seriously.It's still probably the most aspirational car in the world, for the majority of people. Yes, people love Ferraris/Lambos, but their numbers make them unattainable even for people who could afford the sticker price.
If VW is dumb enough to overleverage Porsche into all of these giant mistakes, then VW isn't the smart company most people think it is.
The Cayenne is a joke of an SUV. The Toureg is not.
But why would Porsche go in all of those directions? Companies fail when they overextend themselves for no other reason than for profits. When a company is known for doing 1 thing (making the 911), that's what they should do. As Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." Stick with what made you great. Nobody is sick and tired of the 911. Is it sucky to be a Porsche employee and have to work on the 911?? Seriously.It's still probably the most aspirational car in the world, for the majority of people. Yes, people love Ferraris/Lambos, but their numbers make them unattainable even for people who could afford the sticker price.
If VW is dumb enough to overleverage Porsche into all of these giant mistakes, then VW isn't the smart company most people think it is.
The Cayenne is a joke of an SUV. The Toureg is not.
Eric Lindros
#88
Nice car.
Why all the directions? To make more money. And VW is all but inexperienced in handling many models and product ranges. Take, for example, all their "basic" companies - the vw itself, audi, seat and škoda. Each of them produces a compact car and a middle-class sedan, and yet they all sell well and vw is making tons of money even though the models are in a way competition to one another.
Now, you say Porsche is most famous for its 911. That may be. But then they made the Cayenne and how did it do on the market? Great. What does Cayenne have in common with the 911, or with any truly sports car for that matter? Nothing. It's a SUV, for Christ's sake. Do buyers care? No. They drive a Porsche!
Take mercedes, for example. What cars did they make in the seventies? The now legendary w123 - the equivalent of today's e-class, the w116 - equivalent of s-class, and some coupes. The e-class was their cheapest model! Then, in the eighties, came the w201 model, called at the time "baby-benz", which was later renamed to the c-class. What do we have now? The a-, b-, c-, e-, s-, ml-, gl-, r-, sl-, cl-class... did I miss some? And is Mercedes on it's way to bakruptcy? On the contrary.
Of course, the proliferation of Porsche models will not be instant - I believe it will take at least 5 years for a few new models - but I do believe it's inevitable.
No, I don't like it for these reasons:
-room for rear passenger is too small
-poor trunk capacity
-no awd only optional on the panamera 4s
-no run on flat tires
-looks like a 911 with 4 doors.
If I have to buy a luxury car, it would be a second hand audi s8 v10 or an audi a8l w12 or audi a8l v8.
-room for rear passenger is too small
-poor trunk capacity
-no awd only optional on the panamera 4s
-no run on flat tires
-looks like a 911 with 4 doors.
If I have to buy a luxury car, it would be a second hand audi s8 v10 or an audi a8l w12 or audi a8l v8.
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
FIAT didn't acquire a majority stake in Ferrari until the late 80's, as best I recall. And even then, they continued to (as I stated) let Ferrari be Ferrari. The brand has not been at all devalued by FIAT's near total ownership of the marque.
As for Jaguar, it was swirling around the drain when Ford outbid GM for it in 1990. And to say that Jaguar did nothing more than produce one turd after another ignores the full truth. I still have an XJS produced in the late 80's. And I have a 2005 XK8. The XK8 is world's ahead of the XJS in terms of quality control. I got one of the rare XJS's that wasn't a POS. But compared to other cars of that time, it wasn't what it should have been in terms of quality. That is the most important thing that Ford's Six Sigma style production methodology did for Jaguar. From a company that was a rolling joke when the J.D. Power rankings came out, to now being at the top of the chart is a huge acomplishment for Jaguar under Ford! But Ford's biggest mistake was (again, as I stated) not letting Jaguar be Jaguar. Ford wanted to push Jaguar into a mass production model that did eventually devalue the marque (the X-type/Mondeo knock-off). Though designed under Ford ownership, the new XF seems to address that. That and dropping the much unloved X-type (though they should come up with some sort of entry replacement, IMO). Add to all of that an F1 project that cost Ford hundreds of millions of dollars in losses.. when Jaguar's racing heritage was solidly at Le Mans, not Monaco.
Having Nigel building a Jaguar or Aston, Giuseppe building a Ferrari or Guenter building a Porsche does add something to the cachet of these marques. But as Porsche had shown (up until quite recently), to make money and survive, any company also has to ring the cash register. And Porsche has done that like no other, at the race track (probably the only auto maker that actually makes money from its global racing operations) and on the street.
Porsche has been talking about a common race engine architecture that would apply to everything from F1 to Le Mans to Indy Car. Overlapping performance specs on road cars or on the race track is just a waste of money and resources, IMO. A platform is just a base. What is added to the base is what differentiates it from other variations. So again, as long as VW lets Porsche be Porsche, I don't see a need to worry. And I say all of that as I respect Porsches, but I'm not really a Porsche fan.
:2 cents:
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Hell, I'd take a FIAT 500 if it was free. Course, I'd sell it and then pay down on a real car, but you know...
Just a note the car is dead due to Porsche thinking a small fish could swallow a big one. VW is planning to **** it in 2012 after the model cycle runs out, along with the Cayenne 2.
No longer figures in long term plans, VW plans to make them a pure sports car company, I agree!
No longer figures in long term plans, VW plans to make them a pure sports car company, I agree!
VW has not screwed up so far. Audi has successfully moved up market and is very competitive with BMW and Merc. VW has brodened its appeal, not withstanding the Phaeton. Porsche will become a pure sports car maker like it should be. The Cayenne 2 is a fine SUV that still commands a premium price, but I dont think it fits well.
a 6'2" guy fit in the back seats pretty well
It goes from 16 cubic feet to 45 with the seat down. A S-Class has 16.
Thanks to that! They are just a overpriced option that makes your day to day drive harsh and a expensive replacement.
The rest I agree...
Another styling flub for Porsche.
The Cayenne is grotesque and hideous, and appeals to the lamest part of the market, the status-seeking, wealth-flaunting a-hole who wants something big and obnoxious. The engine in the Cayenne is just big, not refined, not very efficient. Plus, again, the styling - it just looks like another fuckin' SUV.
This is not very nice either. Like some high-school *** with minimal design skills or little love of the marque whipped it up in a few hours.
Frankly, I'd rate Porsche's old 914 (and 916) as nicer than the Panamera or the Cayenne.
I'd probably take an old 944S over this thing, and maaaaaybe even a nice (clean) 924S.
The best Porsches have always been the 911 and its various offshoots.
The 928 was fine too, and deserved a few more years of refinement, imho.
The Cayenne is grotesque and hideous, and appeals to the lamest part of the market, the status-seeking, wealth-flaunting a-hole who wants something big and obnoxious. The engine in the Cayenne is just big, not refined, not very efficient. Plus, again, the styling - it just looks like another fuckin' SUV.
This is not very nice either. Like some high-school *** with minimal design skills or little love of the marque whipped it up in a few hours.
Frankly, I'd rate Porsche's old 914 (and 916) as nicer than the Panamera or the Cayenne.
I'd probably take an old 944S over this thing, and maaaaaybe even a nice (clean) 924S.
The best Porsches have always been the 911 and its various offshoots.
The 928 was fine too, and deserved a few more years of refinement, imho.
German engineering is very good, their designing ability is shocking. Have you never seen an Audi TT?
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