This of course is not a new concept if you've read Marx.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/WebCast/story?id=3387666&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/WebCast/story?id=3387666&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
Opinion: Religion Is a Poison
- Thread starter AFA
- Start date
Poison?
I never though of opium as a poison :tongue:
EDIT: Before Hitchens wrote that piece, there was Richard Dawkins.
cheers,
I never though of opium as a poison :tongue:
EDIT: Before Hitchens wrote that piece, there was Richard Dawkins.
cheers,
You're probably right. I have a splitting headache and didn't read it through. Marx mentioned opium was more concerned with a narcotic effect.
Smittmaestro
Center of the fothermucking universe
Yes and Marx's ideas have been a rousing success have they not?
Just look at Russia, Cuba, Venezuala, North Korea, China etc.
But it's making inroads here in the States a fact Michael Moore and Hillary love big time!
-cs™
Just look at Russia, Cuba, Venezuala, North Korea, China etc.
But it's making inroads here in the States a fact Michael Moore and Hillary love big time!
-cs™
Marx is the creator of one of a few standard sociological theories about how groups think and act. His ideas for the large part are distorted by those groups.
He argued that society was run by the rich and individuals were merely cogs in the wheel. On the other hand Durkheim believed society was right in it's advancement and goals, and those who did not fit in or with different ideas were deviant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_marx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Durkheim
He argued that society was run by the rich and individuals were merely cogs in the wheel. On the other hand Durkheim believed society was right in it's advancement and goals, and those who did not fit in or with different ideas were deviant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_marx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Durkheim
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I don't always agree with Hitchens but religion and the english monarchy are two that he has right IMO.
I don't think religion is necessarily a poison. I would more accurately put it that anything in which people allow themselves to be lead blindly into without questioning it what so ever are poisons. I think if more people stepped back and asked, “is what I was taught right” or “is what I was taught about this the real truth” it wouldn’t be as bad as if they just accepted commands like a robot.
I think that's the key to it right there...free will...so many people around the world, Europe and the US included, are driven in nearly everything they do by their religion. This, I believe, is very dangerous. I think religion can be good in shaping basic moral tenets and such, but I think those who take their religion with "a grain of salt" get more done and in a more peaceful fashion. For instance, I personally was raised Catholic and consider myself to still be, though non-practicing. However, my personal beliefs are tempered by an understanding that bible verses are thousands of years old and may not dictate what is "right" today. :2 cents:
PS-D-rock: hope i didn't misinterpret any of what you said
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I think religion and any other representation of authority can pick up on the normal learning of an individual, (like a parent with a child), and eventually steer anyone to do anything. If it's not religion it's government or political ideologies.
I think there was some talk about Milgram here;
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=136746&highlight=milgram
I think there was some talk about Milgram here;
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=136746&highlight=milgram
Yeah, like D-Rock said, I don't think poison is right thing. Maybe brown acid?
I think that's the key to it right there...free will...so many people around the world, Europe and the US included, are driven in nearly everything they do by their religion. This, I believe, is very dangerous. I think religion can be good in shaping basic moral tenets and such, but I think those who take their religion with "a grain of salt" get more done and in a more peaceful fashion. For instance, I personally was raised Catholic and consider myself to still be, though non-practicing. However, my personal beliefs are tempered by an understanding that bible verses are thousands of years old and may not dictate what is "right" today. :2 cents:
PS-D-rock: hope i didn't misinterpret any of what you said
I beleive there is a major difference in the amount of religious adherence between the US and Europe.All the polls show that Europe has become much less religious with all the countries below 50% subscribing to it,while something like 80% of Americans still are adherents.Personally I beleive their history especially in the last century has convinced them that these philosophies were very flawed and dangerous.I think anyone who survived the second world war in Europe would have found it hard to beleive such a belief system was valid any longer.
Good Point,I couldn't have said it any better.
I think life for the average Russian was better after the 1917 revolution than it had been before that.Same thing for Cuba life improved greatly under Castro than had been the case under Batista.Venezuala may be socialist but is not anywhere close to being totally communist.North Korea you may have good point although its more of a family dynasty run country than communist IMO.China is another one that was not doing any better before communism took over,but they have started to incorparate some capitalism,hopefully they can mix that with some Marxist Idealism to achieve a balance between the two.We are quickly heading towards a world where total free will will be a luxury we can no longer sustain.We will have to control population,energy consumption,output of pollutants the only question IMO is will it be a system that caters a very small elite few or will be a system that tries to distribute diminishing resources as equitably as possible.
I said above, Marx was a theory distorted for the sake of Soviet power and others as a means to grow the government.
Marx was about putting power back into the hands of the workers, and that the elite few didn't deserve to run things on their breaking backs for their own gain. A lot of people seeing big corporations with CEO salaries upwards of $25 million or more, polluting and destroying the environment to their own ends without retribution as the same. In fact, Upton Sinclair wrote the book, "The Jungle", about the pain of workers circa 1890, in the Chicago meat packing industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
The novel depicts in harsh tones the poverty, complete absence of social security, scandalous living and working conditions, and generally utter hopelessness prevalent among the have-nots, which is contrasted with the deeply-rooted corruption on the part of the haves. The sad state of turn-of-the-century labor is placed front and center for the American public to see suggesting that something needed to be changed to get rid of American "wage slavery".
Sinclair was thought to be a communist, although communists thought of him as a Capitalist. He said, people would accept socialism, but not the name.
Another example of this is sharcropper farmers exploited for their work and in some places accepting the necessity of giving the boss the first crack at their new wives to carry the seed of success. Exploitation exists every day in every civilization, and sometimes we hear about it. Drug companies legally dump drugs on third world countries, to test them, and to get rid of them while minimizing their loss. Union Carbide accidently killed 20,000 in India in 1984 and sought not to be accountable.
There seems to be a place for Marxist ideas every day.
Marx was about putting power back into the hands of the workers, and that the elite few didn't deserve to run things on their breaking backs for their own gain. A lot of people seeing big corporations with CEO salaries upwards of $25 million or more, polluting and destroying the environment to their own ends without retribution as the same. In fact, Upton Sinclair wrote the book, "The Jungle", about the pain of workers circa 1890, in the Chicago meat packing industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
The novel depicts in harsh tones the poverty, complete absence of social security, scandalous living and working conditions, and generally utter hopelessness prevalent among the have-nots, which is contrasted with the deeply-rooted corruption on the part of the haves. The sad state of turn-of-the-century labor is placed front and center for the American public to see suggesting that something needed to be changed to get rid of American "wage slavery".
Sinclair was thought to be a communist, although communists thought of him as a Capitalist. He said, people would accept socialism, but not the name.
Another example of this is sharcropper farmers exploited for their work and in some places accepting the necessity of giving the boss the first crack at their new wives to carry the seed of success. Exploitation exists every day in every civilization, and sometimes we hear about it. Drug companies legally dump drugs on third world countries, to test them, and to get rid of them while minimizing their loss. Union Carbide accidently killed 20,000 in India in 1984 and sought not to be accountable.
There seems to be a place for Marxist ideas every day.
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I agree with you.Communism has been refered to as "the beautiful dream" but it like anything else humans get there hands on was used for their own purposes in many cases.But the need for an idelogy that counters some of the capitalist expolitation run amuck is clear as you stated.Take Cuba what choice did Castro have when trying to free his country of Ameircan exploitation than to turn to communist russia for support.
Religion is not a poison. If religious fundamentalists did not exist, there would ALWAYS be extremist of one kind or another. Hitler/Stalin/Mao all had no time with religion, yet murdered more people than the entire history of humanity.
Mad people just need an excuse to kill, ANY excuse.
Mad people just need an excuse to kill, ANY excuse.
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