Obama's naive class warfare

[MeWantie]

I love how a lot of Americans think taxes are some sort of curse word. I also love how taxes are somehow considered a form of communism. Most people on this board need an education on how their economy works.

 

[ragincaucasian]

 

[StanScratch]

that recessoin was going to happen tax breaks or not. It was the result of things that happend during Bill Clintons Presidency. the housing bubble didnt burst in 2 years, it took years of governmental irrisponsibility for that to happen, Bush just got stuck with the blame (as he should have) cause he was the sitting president when it happend, and it hasnt gotten better under Obama, the same with other parts of the economy that went bad..anything that went wrong was a direct result of many years of government being an idiot and thinking the prosperity was going to last forever.

How come the trickle down economy did not stop the housing bubble burst, though? It seems to me Republicans are painting the tax breaks for the rich as a "fix all"...but they fixed absolutely nothing. In fact, a lot of people who are paid to study such things (we call them "economists") have done quite a few models that have shown that, if Congress did literally nothing for the economy but let those tax breaks for the rich expire (and the tax rates go to the level that they were before Bush became President), the deficit would drastically improve - and, remarkably, the extremely rich would still remain extremely rich. And, at the same time, no one has come up with a working model that shows the country flourishing with those tax breaks still in place.
And, the economy has actually improved under Obama...even Mitt Romney now admits that.

 

[Straight Shooter]

There has been a massive redistribution of wealth in this country. It's gone from the middle class to the super wealthy.

 

[Trident1]

I'm sorry, but any notion that the modern union 'protects' the working class is utterly naive. They are mulit-billion dollar conglomerates in their own right who spend more time managing their investment portfolios (none of which, you can bet, are in any of the soft sectors most prone to ...eeerr, union disruption - than they ever do with the rank and file.

I've actually seen union bosses drive up to picket lines in chauffeur-driven limos to 'support' the troops.

The corruption that occurs inside unions and in their external operations is easily equal to any malfeasances committed by the bloated Wall Street Fat Cats: if you ask me, they should all be tarred and feathered.

The unions are one reason why companies avoid setting up shop here in Ohio. If a company has a choice between a union or non union locale it doesn't take a genius to figure out which one will be chosen.
The Dems love the unions because a nice chunk of money is forked over to them(whether the employee likes it or not) during election time.

 

[Trident1]

There has been a massive redistribution of wealth in this country. It's gone from the middle class to the super wealthy.

Or from the middle class to the 'hood/Section 8 crowd.

 

[El Perro Mayor]

These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people.



We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.



America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.



“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.” –
Abraham Lincoln - In a letter written to William Elkin




All the above quotes were from Abraham Lincoln. :2 cents:

 

[Trident1]

These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people.

...............and the Socialists/Communists/Leftists/Liberals don't?

 

[Hot Mega]

Surprised Mega hasn't blown a gasket trying to spin this topic.

You of all suggesting this is the funniest thing I've read all day. But what's 'there to spin? The thread topic and content of the OP don't match for starters and we're going to debate the tired, "class warfare" talking point now??

 

[ragincaucasian]

Or from the middle class to the 'hood/Section 8 crowd.

because we know those folks are just ballin' and livin the good life!!!



Invest in your infrastructure and people - thats the only way societies advance. The people on government assistance aren't getting over on anyone and I have no problem providing them subsistence to get by. Our country sucks so bad right now because we are so unwilling to NOT try to rip someone off by letting the 'free market' handle everything.....there isn't anything we're willing to do unless there is some obscene profit motive involved.

We love shitting all over the poor disenfranchised American citizens in this country, while at the same time pouring trillions of dollars overseas trying to prop up foreign governments (Afghanistan is about to declare insolvency)

We love our scapegoats

 

[Hot Mega]

because we know those folks are just <straight> ballin'


and livin the good life!!!

Fixed...(since we're talking the 'hood' and all.

 

[Trident1]

because we know those folks are just ballin' and livin the good life!!!

Well their sure as shit not getting out of the wagon and pulling like everyone else.
Give them an incentive to get off their collective asses.

 

[ragincaucasian]

Well their sure as shit not getting out of the wagon and pulling like everyone else.
Give them an incentive to get off their collective asses.

do you really believe they are poor simply because they aren't working 'hard enough'? Seriously?

 

[TheOrangeCat]

do you really believe they are poor simply because they aren't working 'hard enough'? Seriously?

That's trite and simplistic. Trident and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum, politically, but a welfare society breeds complacency and laziness.

It's not that they want to be unemployed - or poor - it's that it's too easy to be poor and unemployed because the net is too wide, and too comfortable.

And, no, I'm not saying they live in comfort. What I'm saying is a welfare rich society reduces the incentive (to those lower down the social/economic ladder) to thrive by providing a level of subsistence that is above poverty. And, yes, that in and of itself is not a bad thing .. but without boundaries and in-built incentives (no different from a salesman having to make his targets to get paid XXX) it simply becomes a threadbare blanket that far too many are happy to wrap around themselves, because as long as they are warm and fed - albeit and admittedly if only just or shittily - they have no reason to strive for more.

 

[ragincaucasian]

I agree....it doesn't help them, but welfare is a necessary safety net. Just like UI.
Its difficult to tell someone to "get a job" when there are none to be gotten. Its a little difficult to tell someone to get an education, when they can't get funding to be in school

The all-too-convenient excuse / self-righteous scapegoat are those less fortunate, unfortunately, so pumping the brakes on the advancement of these logical fallacies "its the welfare queens [not govt exceptionalist spending] that are draining society".

It isn't the loose hinge that is causing your house to sink into it foundation

 

[Hot Mega]

That's trite and simplistic. Trident and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum, politically, but a welfare society breeds complacency and laziness.

It's not that they want to be unemployed - or poor - it's that it's too easy to be poor and unemployed because the net is too wide, and too comfortable.

And, no, I'm not saying they live in comfort. What I'm saying is a welfare rich society reduces the incentive (to those lower down the social/economic ladder) to thrive by providing a level of subsistence that is above poverty. And, yes, that in and of itself is not a bad thing .. but without boundaries and in-built incentives (no different from a salesman having to make his targets to get paid XXX) it simply becomes a threadbare blanket that far too many are happy to wrap around themselves, because as long as they are warm and fed - albeit and admittedly if only just or shittily - they have no reason to strive for more.

If this was a little less well written, quintuple spaced with random smilies, font styles and sizes I'd think you were just being Facetious. Are you sure you're not?

But sizing up the problem...it isn't a 'welfare' thing....you allude to the issue in your post.

It can be too easy just to settle for getting by no matter the circumstance.

It can be too easy to cheat in some cases no matter the circumstance.

Etc., etc., etc.,.........

 

[monicasilver]

Some truth to what you say 'cat.

I think it is easy to make a vilify the other guy, regardless of who they are. Not simple at all because you can find examples of the villains among the haves and have-nots.

I forget exactly (and I'm tired and too lazy to look it up at the moment) what the President said, but it seemed to smack of a bit of pitting the classes against each other. I winced a bit at that. No president would have an easy go of it, because it isn't simple.

However, if he hired me as his Economic Slut, I would help him fix the tax codes, cut expeditures, and tort reforms. People are always in for the WIFM and right now we're in "ask what you can do for your country" territory.

 

[TheOrangeCat]

Lookit .. I've been at both end of the spectrum: several times. I've been the 25k a month guy, and I've been the 'I have no food' guy. Some days, I've lived on nothing but black tea and bread and margarine. My parents are from very poor working class background, so I know of what i speak when it comes to living in penury: and about what it takes to get up off your ass.

My point is that any welfare system needs to both protect it's most vulnerable members and provide an environment where they can not only be facilitated to achieve but, if necessary be prodded into action.

This latter point is not a pleasant concept. No-one likes to be told what to do, never mind be forced to thought to be forced to do something, but there has to be a middle ground between 'hand out' welfare and the Neo-Con bullwhip approach.

I'm not saying i even understand the issue properly or completely, but from a human point of view, I think it is a great disservice to allow a fellow man to fail when he could succeed and surpass his own expectations, no matter how modest; or what social genesis caused him or her to be in a situation where not trying was preferable to trying and failing.

As Samuel Beckett so beautifully wrote: Fail. Fail again. Fail better.

 

[E-Ann-Hilden]

Sorry, Congress passes the budget! The President can make his statement, wrong or right. But none of those numbskulls will make a deal! We need to find some middle ground!

All in the past have made some kind of deal that both parties could agree on!

 

[meesterperfect]

He is for sure. His big mistake was believing his own "reach across the aisle" philosophy that would have us all doing a group hug and singing Kumbaya. Now, THAT'S naive. The political division in this country is bigger than ever.

The republicans have dug in their heels and refuse to give at all. If he had truly wanted to impose the "change" on which he campaigned in 2008, Obama should have forced his agenda down their throats when he had the chance. Now, with a republican House, that's impossible. The republican agenda the remainder of his term will be one of interference and blockage....does anyone here really think they want things to improve for the American people before 2012? That's the problem with the current system....it's a conflict of interest. The primary aim is to gain and retain power for your side, not serve your constituency.

Not picking on the republicans here BTW....the democrats will do the same thing once the tables are inevitably turned in 2012 or whenever.

It's the system that is broken and unless or until both liberals and conservatives recognize that reality instead of continuing to mindlessly believe that somehow "their" side has the answer to all of our problems, things ain't likely to change my friends.

Hip Hip.
Thats it.
I am a conservative in many ways but I am not so one sided not to know what you said is totally accurate.
See I don't like republicans too much, but I hate democrats.......but when its all said and done they both suck.
To them were not number one, we're not even number 2.

I resisted joining this, mainly because political threads tend to be lose-lose propositions, but I am curious about the title: class warfare?

Please. he may not be a good president, but he is not a class warrior and, trying to create a more even disbursement of wealth - even in a half-assed manner - does not constitute class warfare.

To me class warfare in this topic is politicians who want to blame all the problems on the other party or the other people.
In this case its Obamer telling all the people who want the Paris Hilton life that the reason they don't have it is because of the Republicans and the rich.
Vote for him and his party and he'll change all that, hell get those evil rich folk and put a garage in every car.
But its all bullshit, smoke and mirrors.
Like i said too, Politicians could say the same to middle class working people about all the people in the USA on lifelong assistance for whatever bullshit reason they cant or won't work. Get those people fired up. Just look around the USa at all the riff raff all over that country, tell the people how they are surviving and who's paying for it.
But I've seen so many examples of this tactic from democrats over the years for the sole reason of keeping their power and control that I would love to see them hanged by the neck until they are dead for the charge of treason.

To you political and economic geniuses who actually believe the above, one simple question:
How come the recession took place after the tax breaks took effect? If what you guys actually believe happened...then there would have been no staggering, crippling recession.

A lot of reasons caused the current shitty economy, tax breaks I think were/are a small reason if any.
Remember, if you ain't got it, don't spend it.