Obamacare

Will SCOTUS strike down the healthcare mandate?


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If justice Kennedy approves the Obama health care bill as it is written, there's going to be a lot of career changes in the works for our best and brightest young college students. Seriously, who would want to go through the rigors of 7, 8 or 9 years of medical school after the completion of their bachelors degree just to become a salaried health care professional?
 
Not to be snarky, but your insurance plan just sucks! Let me guess, a steep cost but too little bang for your buck? Is it through your employer or are you going it alone? I live in Mass. EVERYONE here must have insurance or suffer a big tax penalty. Thanks, Mitt! :facepalm:

Instead of flushing taxpayer money down the drain on bullshit "green energy" companies, how about putting that cash toward covering the approx. 30 to 35 million people who are uninsured? I'm not talking about you and me and OUR high premiums, just the AMERICANS who have NO coverage now. And please understand, it shouldn't be a permanent benefit. People are much better off paying their own way rather than relying on the government to be their nursemaids. Always. If the assholes in Washington would just agree on some fundamental issues, like tort reform and allowing interstate health insurance sales, for example. Pool_hustler, the latter could really help someone like you because you could shop outside your state to get a more competitive, lower rate. Instead of doing these things, Congress wastes OUR money on boondoggles like Solyndra, cap-and-trade and "stimulus" economic "aid" to states that just turned around and used the bulk of it to pay contracted union raises and perks.

In a neighboring town here in Massachusetts, one town for fiscal 2012 devoted 70 PERCENT of it's entire operating budget to just the school dept. The rest of the entire town lived on only 30 percent. And this is just one example, this trend repeats itself all over the state. So, of that 70 percent, more than 90 percent went to pay teacher salaries, contractual 3-5% YEARLY raises (do YOU get a raise every year?), step-and-lane increases and so-called professional development. In effect, the vast majority of the town's budget existed merely to pay teacher salaries. It's the biggest scam you can imagine -- and it's being perpetrated in every single town and city in the country. The teacher unions always win because whenever someone tries bring them to heel, the reps scream and whine about "harming our ********'s future." As soon as they say that, they usually get what they demand: money that comes via state taxes AND so-called federal aid.

The point is: This MASSIVE sum of money would be better spent helping sick people than giving a raise to someone who only works 9 months per year. :2 cents:

Without knowing Pool Hustler's medical condition, what he's paying may not be out of line at all. Yeah, that's a hell of a lot of money to have to pay per month. But a pal of mine's wife pays about that much. She's morbidly obese, has diabetes and several other health problems. They pay a huge amount for insurance for her because she's lucky to be able to get insurance at all. At most of the companies they approached, she was considered "uninsurable".

I agree that it should be easier to buy insurance from companies based in other states. In that way, competition should help to adjust certain policy premiums, as the competition would lessen the near monopoly or duopoly situations that some companies have in some states. But after what I've gone through, I wouldn't buy insurance from a company unless they were licensed to do business in my state. I don't care where they're based. But if they try to cheat me, I don't want to have to get a lawyer in Mississippi to get the situation straightened out.

And sorry, but teacher salaries have nothing to do with this. I'm not saying it's not an issue. But education reform, public sector union reform and the like are separate issues. There is a HUGE number of programs and services that could be cut (military spending, foreign aid, etc.) and other things could be done with the money.

how about putting that cash toward covering the approx. 30 to 35 million people who are uninsured?

That just sounds like the creation of another government entitlement to me.

What I don't like about this bill is that it is more of an insurance reform law, rather than a true health care reform law. The debate got so muddled up that not enough focus was placed on things that could have been done to make our system more efficient and cost effective. And (IMO) the VERY same thing would happen if tort reform was tackled. Do I really believe that two rooms, filled with a majority of people who are lawyers, are going to pass a bill that would really hurt lawyers? :rofl2: Now, they might pass a law that would limit how much you could collect if a doctor amputates the wrong leg or prescribes the wrong medication and you die. But that's hardly tort reform, in my mind. Unlike many of the American people, politicians are smart enough NOT to vote against their own interests.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm all for reforming the legal system to make nuisance suits and frivolous lawsuits go away. They really do hurt our systems (business, legal, etc.).


If justice Kennedy approves the Obama health care bill as it is written, there's going to be a lot of career changes in the works for our best and brightest young college students. Seriously, who would want to go through the rigors of 7, 8 or 9 years of medical school after the completion of their bachelors degree just to become a salaried health care professional?

I doubt that. What's in the bill that would make doctors "salaried health care professionals"???

As far as I know, the bill does not prevent doctors from not seeing patients they choose not to see or not accepting insurance plans they choose not to accept. Just as now, a doctor can choose not to see you, he can choose not to accept Medicaid patients... or even patients with Blue Cross/Blue Shield, if he wants to. If there's something in the bill that guarantees universal access to any doctor, no matter what your insurance or financial situation, I'd like to see that provision.

Plus, if there are doctors who are entering the field SOLELY for financial gain, I'd prefer they get MBA's and just cause a bank to fail, rather than performing unnecessary surgeries just to afford a new BMW 7 series.
 
Obama is a Kenyan, secret Muslim, Commie, God hating, **** loving, Jew hating, socialist FUCK! I hope this bastard burns in hell.

Fixed that for ya. :)
 
The GOP just wanted to dump health insurance into vouchers, onto the states and keep the same system in place, how novel! Let the states, people suffer and the insurance industry & big pharma make the gains.
 
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you can't really be this stupid, can you?

See, I knew you'd say that. And that's why I "fixed" his post for him: so he wouldn't look stupid. :)

No need to thank me, Nester. That's just what I do. Every day on the street, every person I meet, every breath I take, every cake I bake... I just try to help people in need. :hatsoff:
 
Without knowing Pool Hustler's medical condition, what he's paying may not be out of line at all. Yeah, that's a hell of a lot of money to have to pay per month. But a pal of mine's wife pays about that much. She's morbidly obese, has diabetes and several other health problems. They pay a huge amount for insurance for her because she's lucky to be able to get insurance at all. At most of the companies they approached, she was considered "uninsurable".

If you believe that Obamacare would ultimately read to "rationing" of health care (which I do), your pal's wife would be sent to the back of the line -- receiving delayed and/or limited care in favor of healthier, more economically feasible people. Yes, she is indeed VERY lucky to have insurance at all -- but at least she has it. Under Obamacare, she might have nothing at all.

I agree that it should be easier to buy insurance from companies based in other states. In that way, competition should help to adjust certain policy premiums, as the competition would lessen the near monopoly or duopoly situations that some companies have in some states. But after what I've gone through, I wouldn't buy insurance from a company unless they were licensed to do business in my state. I don't care where they're based. But if they try to cheat me, I don't want to have to get a lawyer in Mississippi to get the situation straightened out.

If you're being cheated by your insurance company, it sucks no matter WHERE you live, doesn't it?

And sorry, but teacher salaries have nothing to do with this. I'm not saying it's not an issue. But education reform, public sector union reform and the like are separate issues. There is a HUGE number of programs and services that could be cut (military spending, foreign aid, etc.) and other things could be done with the money.


In answering Pool Hustler's question, I was offering up an example of how we could pay to insure the uninsured WITHOUT ******* all 300 million Americans into buying something they may not need or want. Much of the federal aid that goes to states every year ultimately goes to unions. As I said previously, that money would be better spent elsewhere (like helping people pay for health care). To me, that makes the example very relevant. I agree we would should cut foreign aid. Absolutely. It's a waste of money and it goes unappreciated by many recipients. But I wholeheartedly disagree with cutting our already weakened military. We have clear and present threats in Iran and N. Korea, in addition to our ongoing conflict vs. Islamic extremism. Hell, even China is building weapon systems intended to put them on a level playing field with the American military (like the so-called carrier-killer missile, for example). IMO, we need to INVEST in the military. In addition to making us more safe and secure and give other nations pause before fucking with us, it would, in short, create countless jobs and help invigorate the economy. It would certainly be more beneficial than funding that green energy scam. Now THAT is something that should be cut.



That just sounds like the creation of another government entitlement to me.

What I don't like about this bill is that it is more of an insurance reform law, rather than a true health care reform law. The debate got so muddled up that not enough focus was placed on things that could have been done to make our system more efficient and cost effective. And (IMO) the VERY same thing would happen if tort reform was tackled. Do I really believe that two rooms, filled with a majority of people who are lawyers, are going to pass a bill that would really hurt lawyers? :rofl2: Now, they might pass a law that would limit how much you could collect if a doctor amputates the wrong leg or prescribes the wrong medication and you die. But that's hardly tort reform, in my mind. Unlike many of the American people, politicians are smart enough NOT to vote against their own interests.

You may be right about the lawyers. But doctors/hospitals pay millions to insulate themselves against lawsuits, which, according to my understanding, is one of the biggest drivers behind rising health care costs. Hospitals typically settle malpractice suits (including many of those that have little merit) because it ultimately costs more to litigate every case than it does to simply throw money at disgruntled patients/families to make them go away. If a case does indeed go to court and the plantiff wins, there's no limit on punitive damages, right? Putting a cap on damages, IMO, would give practices and hospitals a way to "budget" for malpractice cases by, perhaps, averaging the number of lawsuits faced per year and deciding on a sum to set aside to handle them. It takes a lot of the uncertainty out of the equation, or so it seems to me. Would this not help curb the rise of cost, or maybe even reduce them? I understand the concept well enough to take a position on the issue, but I freely admit I don't have all the nitty-gritty details at hand. In other words, I know how to drive the car, but I don't pretend to know how to build its engine. :)


Don't get me wrong though. I'm all for reforming the legal system to make nuisance suits and frivolous lawsuits go away. They really do hurt our systems (business, legal, etc.).

More of my :2 cents:
 
I find the people out there that think we can solve all the mess with the uninsured, people with crappy insurance, and all the other problems with our health insurance with tort reform or the easing or rearranging the buying and selling of insurance laughable. I wouldn't call them stupid, but maybe they are just ignorant to the point of stupidity and they don't know what they are talking about.

Tort reform might make a few percentage difference in the whole scheme of things...in a freaking industry where over times cost have gone up hundreds of percent. It's like those people that think continually drilling for oil will solve the problems with the gas prices we face when in fact it might make a difference of a few cents here and there, instead of, you know, actually shifting our dependence as a country and world away from oil. Tort reform is basically something the medical community, like all corporations and people after profit, wants so they don't have to have their asses in the fire when they rightfully screw up.

Having the ease of buying insurance from different places and the slight increase of competition we have know will have about the same effect. I **** to break this to people but this, but the problem is so bad that anything other than socializing medicine, controlling and regulating it's prices and almost every other thing about it, and insuring everybody equally through the government won't solve the problem. That line of thinking is done by people that 1. Already have it well. They "got theirs" and don't want to sacrifice at all to make things better for everybody or 2. Are under some nonsensical ideological belief that doesn't allow them to admit that sometimes things are so big, so important, and so necessary that the only entity that has even a reasonable chance of doing it right and as fair as possible is the government and that government needs to regulate it and not treat it as a normal business.

I also find the arguments about "rationed" health care laughable now. In case people haven't figured it out we already have that. It's called the market. It's what happens when you allow a human right to be a function of the market and dictated by capitalism. If you can't reasonably afford necessary health care now you are quite definitely "rationed". Is there something about that concept people don't understand. I don't know about you, but I would much rather have medical rationing and figuring out how resources get utilized (And until we have a virtual Star Trek level of technology we will always probably have that one way or another whether people like it or not and it might as well be as fair, ethical, and moral as possible.) be done by medical ethicist and doctors and not corporate officers, number crunchers at an insurance agency, or for profit businesses.

Any non-half-assed solution will be expensive (unless we regulate cost and even then it will still be somewhat expensive), will take a lot of effort, and a lot of sacrifices from people that have it better than others. Any getting around that is just trying to get around having to face numbers 1 and 2 above because it's inconvenient for people.
 
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