Obama moves to the right - disappointed??

Re: Ahhh, just a small note ...

You might want to read the US Constitution before repeating that thought again in the future, just FYI.
That's one of the smaller reason why I recommend people study the civics of a country before commenting on that country. ;)

Nah, I actually don't believe nor trust the American constitution...
 
It's all just rhetoric.

He will castrate this country if he gets in. Let's let him stay in the Senate a while longer and get to know him before we lick his nuts...

Vote - none of the above in 08'. :wave:

Well, as I pointed out, the vote on the FISA bill wasn't just rhetoric. Now the telecom companies are off the hook (no pun intended).

I'm not sure what you mean by YOUR rhetoric though - what would it mean for the president to "castrate this country"? Is voting someone the same thing as licking their nuts??:confused:

Has Bush done anything thus far to castrate it?

I do think that elections SHOULD have a "none of the above" option - Ralph Nader (among others) has promoted that idea quite articulately on several occasions.
 
Well, as I pointed out, the vote on the FISA bill wasn't just rhetoric. Now the telecom companies are off the hook (no pun intended).

I'm not sure what you mean by YOUR rhetoric though - what would it mean for the president to "castrate this country"? Is voting someone the same thing as licking their nuts??:confused:

Has Bush done anything thus far to castrate it?

I do think that elections SHOULD have a "none of the above" option - Ralph Nader (among others) has promoted that idea quite articulately on several occasions.
Financially.

Physically. Culturally.

BTW, I voted for Nader in 04'. ;)
 
Jokes and why I'm abstaining again in '08 (like '00) ...

Nah, I actually don't believe nor trust the American constitution...
He he he ... that was a joke right?
Otherwise, what document should we follow?

If there is no process, then there something people can disagree on.
If you don't like the existing processes, there is a process to change them.

BTW, I voted for Nader in 04'. ;)
And I voted Bednarik in '04, the first time I've ever like a Liberarian candidate (and likely the last for while).
I abstained in '00 and I'm probably going to do so in '08.
I'll still go to the polls and fill out other positions I believe in, per my civic duty, but I'm not voting when I don't have a clear like for a candidate's position and proven voting history.

Obama's stance on Iraq and his views on racial equality (and the root causes) are what I like about him the most.
But his voting history on what he put on Illinois medical and other industries are rather scary.

I have to believe a leader only pushes for a social agenda when it's absolutely necessary.
Not when it's an optional procedure for things not threatening, whether it's fiscal or medical.
I'd have to go back to Perot in '92 to find that again since Bednarik in '04, who is not running this year.

And with that said, it's time I just avoid all of these threads altogether.
It's obvious that select people have a problem with that, and will use every avenue to argue with me.
I appreciate people like yourself that have open views.

But it's hard to escape the "I will only align with 1 of 2 sides, one is always right, the other is always wrong and to blame for anything that may have been done by us."
 
Last edited:
delete ...

delete ...
 
Last edited:
He he he ... that was a joke right?
Otherwise, what document should we follow?

If there is no process, then there something people can disagree on.
If you don't like the existing processes, there is a process to change them.

And I voted Bednarik in '04, the first time I've ever like a Liberarian candidate (and likely the last for while).
I abstained in '00 and I'm probably going to do so in '08.
I'll still go to the polls and fill out other positions I believe in, per my civic duty, but I'm not voting when I don't have a clear like for a candidate's position and proven voting history.

Obama's stance on Iraq and his views on racial equality (and the root causes) are what I like about him the most.
But his voting history on what he put on Illinois medical and other industries are rather scary.

I have to believe a leader only pushes for a social agenda when it's absolutely necessary.
Not when it's an optional procedure for things not threatening, whether it's fiscal or medical.
I'd have to go back to Perot in '92 to find that again since Bednarik in '04, who is not running this year.

And with that said, it's time I just avoid all of these threads altogether.
It's obvious that select people have a problem with that, and will use every avenue to argue with me.
I appreciate people like yourself that have open views.

But it's hard to escape the "I will only align with 1 of 2 sides, one is always right, the other is always wrong and to blame for anything that may have been done by us."

Yeah, honestly, Obama doesn't seem that bad (a person). He might even be better than McCain. If he truly want's to get us out of Iraq, that is a start. I'm still not voting for him. I have been with Ron Paul for a long time now, and I have a lot of respect for him. I believe it is my duty to cast my vote for him, regardless of what happens with it.
 
But it's hard to escape the "I will only align with 1 of 2 sides, one is always right, the other is always wrong and to blame for anything that may have been done by us."

Well, I would hope that you wouldn't describe my political attitudes that way, as I have many, many beefs with the Dems. The vote on telecom immunity in the FISA bill is one case in point. Of course I would expect the GOP to vote for that, give Bush/Cheney what they want to spy on all of us, and give the corporations involved a free pass, but I wanted the Dems to behave like an opposition party that was given majority status in '06 based on Iraq and Bush's various post-9/11 excesses (it's a cinch to find a Republican who hates being spied on by their government, for example). But they failed miserably, with Obama's help. (Notably, Hillary voted honorably)

Yeah, honestly, Obama doesn't seem that bad (a person). He might even be better than McCain. If he truly want's to get us out of Iraq, that is a start. I'm still not voting for him. I have been with Ron Paul for a long time now, and I have a lot of respect for him. I believe it is my duty to cast my vote for him, regardless of what happens with it.

....and (again, I think) those newsletters of Paul's with the racist ramblings didn't diminish your respect for him at all???
:dunno:
 
I am a little disappointed that he's going to the right on the issue of abortion. I approve of the shift on gun control though. I all ready forgot the other changes.
 
....and (again, I think) those newsletters of Paul's with the racist ramblings didn't diminish your respect for him at all???
:dunno:


Wow...here we go again. What in the holy hell are you talking about? I like him because he will get us out of Iraq, end illegal immigration and because he is pro 2nd Amendment. That is all.
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
I am a little disappointed that he's going to the right on the issue of abortion.

In what way is he going to the right on abortion? Here's a direct quote from him on the subject from an interview with Christianity Today:

"I don't know anybody who is pro-abortion. I think it's very important to start with that premise. I think people recognize what a wrenching, difficult issue it is. I do think that those who diminish the moral elements of the decision aren't expressing the full reality of it. But what I believe is that women do not make these decisions casually, and that they struggle with it fervently with their pastors, with their spouses, with their doctors.

Our goal should be to make abortion less common, that we should be discouraging unwanted pregnancies, that we should encourage adoption wherever possible. There is a range of ways that we can educate our young people about the sacredness of sex and we should not be promoting the sort of casual activities that end up resulting in so many unwanted pregnancies.

Ultimately, women are in the best position to make a decision at the end of the day about these issues. With significant constraints. For example, I think we can legitimately say -- the state can legitimately say -- that we are prohibiting late-term abortions as long as there's an exception for the mother's health. Those provisions that I voted against typically didn't have those exceptions, which raises profound questions where you might have a mother at great risk. Those are issues that I don't think the government can unilaterally make a decision about. I think they need to be made in consultation with doctors, they have to be prayed upon, or people have to be consulting their conscience on it. I think we have to keep that decision-making with the person themselves.


Link is here:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html

Here's another source that outlines his position on abortion:

"* Throughout his career, in both the Illinois Senate & the US Senate, Obama has stood up for a women's right to choose, consistently earning 100% ratings from pro-choice groups".

Link is here:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

If you have a more current source that shows a significant departure from this stance, I'm all ears.
 
In what way is he going to the right on abortion? Here's a direct quote from him on the subject from an interview with Christianity Today:

"I don't know anybody who is pro-abortion. I think it's very important to start with that premise. I think people recognize what a wrenching, difficult issue it is. I do think that those who diminish the moral elements of the decision aren't expressing the full reality of it. But what I believe is that women do not make these decisions casually, and that they struggle with it fervently with their pastors, with their spouses, with their doctors.

Our goal should be to make abortion less common, that we should be discouraging unwanted pregnancies, that we should encourage adoption wherever possible. There is a range of ways that we can educate our young people about the sacredness of sex and we should not be promoting the sort of casual activities that end up resulting in so many unwanted pregnancies.

Ultimately, women are in the best position to make a decision at the end of the day about these issues. With significant constraints. For example, I think we can legitimately say -- the state can legitimately say -- that we are prohibiting late-term abortions as long as there's an exception for the mother's health. Those provisions that I voted against typically didn't have those exceptions, which raises profound questions where you might have a mother at great risk. Those are issues that I don't think the government can unilaterally make a decision about. I think they need to be made in consultation with doctors, they have to be prayed upon, or people have to be consulting their conscience on it. I think we have to keep that decision-making with the person themselves.


Link is here:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html

Here's another source that outlines his position on abortion:

"* Throughout his career, in both the Illinois Senate & the US Senate, Obama has stood up for a women's right to choose, consistently earning 100% ratings from pro-choice groups".

Link is here:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

If you have a more current source that shows a significant departure from this stance, I'm all ears.

IMO that already is a very middle position that will play well.
 
I just read the summary which said he was going right on the issue of abortion. I didn't actually read what his newest view of it was. The view you posted is completely fine with me.
 
as the furthest left voting U.S. Senator its not surprising that hed lean a little right to try and win the election.
 
Obama would essentially put all of the civil rights, victim mentality folk out of business in becoming the president. WTF is racketeer - jesse jack gonna claim in his next tirade ? Certainly nothing in ref to a black mans' inability to become considered as a serious candidate for president of the u.s. ! :1orglaugh

You know what? I'm sensing a very troubling theme these days amongst some (usually non-black) voters with regards to Obama's rise and candidacy.

They seem to think that electing Obama will somehow erase every legitimate claim of racial discrimination. That somehow attitudes of racist whites who actually have money, power, and influence [that many blacks do not] will not matter anymore because, "hey, one of YOU is the*President*, so shut it!".

Electing Obama will be a tremendous and significant acheivement for racial progress in this country. But it is in no way a license to stop invesitgating and exploring the deeply rooted institutional and overt racism that still exists in the USA.

Elect Obama because you beleive in his message, his leadership potential, and his policies. Don't do it because you want to throw a bone to shut up those "pesky negroes".
 
You know what? I'm sensing a very troubling theme these days amongst some (usually non-black) voters with regards to Obama's rise and candidacy.

They seem to think that electing Obama will somehow erase every legitimate claim of racial discrimination. That somehow attitudes of racist whites who actually have money, power, and influence [that many blacks do not] will not matter anymore because, "hey, well at least one of you is in office".

Electing Obama will be a tremendous and significant acheivement for racial progress in this country. But it is in no way a license to stop invesitgating and exploring the deeply rooted institutional and overt racism that still exists in the USA.

Elect Obama because you beleive in his message, his leadership potential, and his policies. Don't do it because you want to throw a bone to shut up those "pesky negroes".

Hardbop I can't rep you at this time(passed out to much today LOL) but I will try to remember to come back here and rep this post of yours as it is excellant and dead on IMO.:thumbsup:
And welcome to the board,great 2nd post,I will have to go see what number one was now lol.
 
The only thing far more common and annoying ...

The only thing far more common and annoying than racism is perceived racism. Not my words, but several of my African-American co-workers.

Let's get over it. No one needs to "defend" African-Americans, they are more than capable to do it themselves. It's lip-service far too often, and not from people who can actually do a damn most of the time.

It's just like "other people's money." In this case it's "second guessing other people's judgement." Frankly, if people would stick to their own responsibilities and judgements of themselves, the world would be a lot better place.

As many civil rights leaders point out, there's a huge difference between standing up for civil rights when it's popular, versus when it wasn't. ;)
 
Wow...here we go again. What in the holy hell are you talking about? I like him because he will get us out of Iraq, end illegal immigration and because he is pro 2nd Amendment. That is all.

so did Hitler.
 
Just one simple thing, can Obama fix the gas price?

During our political discussion group, someone mentioned the high price may actually help Obama to win and then after the Presidency starts, the price of gas will go down somewhat. I hope it is true !

He doesn't WANT TO help Gas prices in any way. His ONLY comment on that subject is that he "Would have preferred a more gradual "adjustment.

The translation is that he could give a shit about gas prices and what they are doing to the average working person that has to get up and go to work everyday. He is a leftist and is only interested in redistribution of wealth, IE raising taxes and trying to get his hands in your pocket. (HE has already SAID he WILL RAISE taxes AND roll back the last tax cuts, this isn't heresay, this is fact, he has SAID THIS.)

AND do you notice that no matter WHAT the solution for gas prices that is suggested, they will never work and will never help. According to him, there is NO solution. But then again that is what he WANTS.

There has NEVER EVER been a case where a country taxed itself into prosperity.
 
Sorry, I didn't stoop to believing he was a racist for saying something ...

to say that Obama becoming President will put civil rights leaders out of business
Apparently what you heard and what I heard were two very different things.

There are many, allegedly "civil rights" leaders that thrive on the conflict, and aren't exactly interested in "moving on."
If Obama takes the White House, it undercuts their very statements that "a black man can't win the White House," among other things.

As I read it, that's what he was saying, and I happened to agree with that point.

How blind, how biased.
Are you talking to yourself? Seriously!

I.e., it would be very nice for once if you wouldn't read into what people say, and stop to look at where they may be coming from.
By not stopping to understand his points, you too are being "blind" and "biased" because you want to believe it's something he may have not intended.

I, for one, saw his point very different than you on this matter, and didn't stoop to assuming he was a racist for saying it.
If you believe he is a racist for saying what you think, then You Might as well label me a racist for seeing it in a different way.
Because I happen to agree that for some so-called "leaders," this applies.

Jessie Jackson has proven himself to be a racist at several points in his life and political career.
In fact, his anger has been targeted at people of Jewish faith several times as well.
Coincidentally, I've noticed you "go silent" whenever the Jewish minority of this country comes up as well -- oh wait, they're not a "real minority."

Obama, on the other hand, has not, and he's sees some of the same attitudes from his own African American bretheren as Powell.
God it's so sickening to see people like yourself charge into the debate, strong headed, as if you speak for them.
I'm a largely Irish-American of several generations since immigration and the last thing I do is talk for people of other backgrounds, creeds and cultures.

Anyone with half a brain who isn't totally mired in bias themselves can see that.
Then I don't have half a brain either, because I saw it differently than yourself.
So be it, I "can't be trusted" and "must abuse my weak wife" and countless other judgements you've put forth here as well.
Please, please, you are actually proliferating the very attitudes you allegedly despise -- you promote intolerance on this matter.

You will railroad anyone with labels as racists and without half their brains and what not.
The worst I've ever been guilty of is calling someone ignorant of experience and expertise in an area, never intelligence or racism.
You do this over and over and over again, and it gets really old, especially when you're not interested in what someone actually said.

We are SO far from equal rights for all races in this country. We are so biased it's overwhelming.
Yeah, we are biased in the quick judgement of anyone sometimes, to the point they are a racist and people don't even stop to listen to what they may have meant.
We've already decided what they meant and could never see it another way.
Again, the real "civil rights" leaders in this country were around when being for "civil rights" wasn't popular.

Too many "Johnny come lately" types are rather pathetic, especially when they want to turn an interesting statement into not just an alleged one of racism, but label that person a racist for it.
Labelling people as racists is how it starts, and the related guilty-by-association that comes with that is how you totally abandon everything you say you stand for.
Might as well label me a racist too, because I actually understood what he meant.

Again, you are surprisingly silent when it comes to anything that could possibly be considered anti-semitic, and I've pointed that out more than once.
You have a rather "interesting history" of not being so emotional and driven when it requires you to apply the same principles for something you clearly do not believe in.
It's also why Jessie Jackson has not been considered of the same value to the civil rights movement as MLK Jr.

I mention Jessie Jackson by name, because someone else did.
It's part of the reason why I saw it very differently than yourself. ;)
It's why I too believe that Obama reaching the White House would finally shut these people the hell up.

The sooner, the better.

There has NEVER EVER been a case where a country taxed itself into prosperity.
That's because there is a point of diminishing returns.
Higher tax rates do not always mean increased federal income.
The reality is that our federal government overspends a crapload.

I honestly wish we were taken over by European socialists.
Because if we're going to become socialist, I trust just about every European country's leader to do a heck of a lot better job than any American.
Middle class Americans think socialization means "what I get" when they don't realize "it's what I give up for those less fortunate, and we're all equal."

More taxes won't let us create even more social programs of more cost.
To do socialism proper requires you to sacrifice programs that aren't necessary for ones that are.
We already spend quite a bit of our GDP on social programs, and I don't think people realize how much.

And gutting defense to nothing won't solve that budgetary issue either.
Furthermore, if you gut the US defense budget, the economies of most western countries will falter when their resources are no longer secured either.
It's not just the US that will go, especially not when it comes to petroleum imports from the middle east. ;)
 
Top