Muslims Attack Free Speech Artist

[drf]

I am just wondering why a body can't question something that does not exist.:dunno:

 

[DrDoomVegas]

What does the Religion of Peace Teach About Violence

Question:
Does the Qur'an really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?


Answer:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

These verses are mostly open-ended, meaning that the historical context is not embedded within the surrounding text - as are nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Qur'an.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. This proclivity toward violence - and Muhammad's own martial legacy - has left a trail of blood and tears across world history.

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However, there are also two worrisome pieces to these verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah." The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.



Qur'an (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding caravans with this verse.



Qur'an (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."



Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.



Qur'an (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"



Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage not only criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, but it also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad).



Qur'an (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.



Qur'an (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah" From the historical context we know that the "persecution" spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj. Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah."



Qur'an (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."



Qur'an (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.



Qur'an (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."



Qur'an (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.




Qur'an (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Qur'an (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Qur'an (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.




Qur'an (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Qur'an (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."



Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."



Qur'an (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Qur'an (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an)." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Qur'an (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"



Qur'an (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"



Qur'an (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?

Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.



Qur'an (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed!



Qur'an (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Qur'an (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

all religions r bullshit, no questions about that...
remember how they picked the last 4 bibel? shaking the table?
remember what jews did to Jesus?

 

[DrDoomVegas]

Get stuffed.:thefinger

please read read and read, educate yourself

 

[habo9]

all religions r bullshit, no questions about that...
remember how they picked the last 4 bibel? shaking the table?
remember what jews did to Jesus?

Yes I know all religions are bullshit , Im just pointing out the fact that these things are still prevelant amongst some muslims in todays societies , not things from over 2000 years ago , that are supposed to have happened

Couldnt care less what the jews did to Jesus , I would have nailed him up myself :tongue:

 

[Trident1]

please read read and read, educate yourself

I'm the one who put up the Wall Street Journal article by Mr. Ajami.

I take it your heavy reading list is confined to Mary Worth, Judge Parker, Family Circus, and Cathy cartoon strips.

 

[DrDoomVegas]

i think you just said the keyword "Some Muslims"
i think this threads title should have been Some Radical Islamic Supporters attacked Free Speech Artist Among,

 

[DrDoomVegas]

I'm the one who put up the Wall Street Journal article by Mr. Ajami.

I take it your heavy reading list is confined to Mary Worth, Judge Parker, Family Circus, and Cathy cartoon strips.

you may wanna try managing your anger...
there should be a book about that

 

[DrDoomVegas]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100511/ap_on_re_eu/eu_sweden_prophet_drawing




Poor Sweden. A progressive modern country and they have to deal with these backward people.

Please don't cry One tear for me
I'm not afraid of What I have to say
This is my one and Only voice
So listen close, it's Only for today

 

[Trident1]

Please don't cry One tear for me
I'm not afraid of What I have to say
This is my one and Only voice
So listen close, it's Only for today

Marmaduke ain't doin it for ya huh.

 

[habo9]

i think you just said the keyword "Some Muslims"
i think this threads title should have been Some Radical Islamic Supporters attacked Free Speech Artist Among,

Thats all very well saying some but its all the time getting with muslims if they dont get what they want or agree with something , they are always threatening to behead or stone or have a fatwa on something , tbh its getting very boring now.....

They just put me in mind of little toddlers who dont get there own way......

Say something like you cant behead a child for not reading his Qu'ran then all of a sudden theres a jihad , its just getting funny now and I just laugh my head of when I see them on the news moaning about something that the rest of the world couldnt care less about i.e. cartoons , why should we change our society for others , they should be more tolerant of others espesially in others countries where Islam is not the recognized religion

They want everybody to be tolerant of them but they cant be tolerant of others

 

[roronoa3000]

i think you just said the keyword "Some Muslims"
i think this threads title should have been Some Radical Islamic Supporters attacked Free Speech Artist Among,

Damn Muslim sympathizer.

 

[Trident1]

Thats all very well saying some but its all the time getting with muslims if they dont get what they want or agree with something , they are always threatening to behead or stone or have a fatwa on something , tbh its getting very boring now.....

They just put me in mind of little toddlers who dont get there own way......

Say something like you cant behead a child for not reading his Qu'ran then all of a sudden theres a jihad , its just getting funny now and I just laugh my head of when I see them on the news moaning about something that the rest of the world couldnt care less about i.e. cartoons , why should we change our society for others , they should be more tolerant of others espesially in others countries where Islam is not the recognized religion

They want everybody to be tolerant of them but they cant be tolerant of others

What he said.

 

[pitmaster]

Thats all very well saying some but its all the time getting with muslims if they dont get what they want or agree with something , they are always threatening to behead or stone or have a fatwa on something , tbh its getting very boring now.....

They just put me in mind of little toddlers who dont get there own way......

Say something like you cant behead a child for not reading his Qu'ran then all of a sudden theres a jihad , its just getting funny now and I just laugh my head of when I see them on the news moaning about something that the rest of the world couldnt care less about i.e. cartoons , why should we change our society for others , they should be more tolerant of others espesially in others countries where Islam is not the recognized religion

They want everybody to be tolerant of them but they cant be tolerant of others

Well, when your country is already overflowing with Muslims you sort of have to be tolerant of them, thank your politicians past and present for their great immigration policies. They are only there because they can be, if you were from a complete crap hole country, and you knew you and your family could gain access to a nice country, and they were giving out free stuff, you would do the same. Crying over spilt Muslims isn't very constructive. They are still coming in every day and nobody is going to stop them, they are breeding at 5x the rate of the native population, you better be real tolerant of them when they are the majority.

 

[Crazy4theBrat]

I wholeheartedly agree, how has their presence benefitted us ? Let's see, there's
OPEC, bombs, mayhem, blood, guts . . . anything else ? No advancements in medicine or technology . . ? Nope, but they sure have an endless amount of oil riches to buy off any politician they wish.
Provided that it's not to late.

I know, I know, it's not conducive to happy and engaging conversation to suggest that there's actually a point beyond any return, but I haves to calls em as I sees em. :angels:

About the only things I can think of that they contribute to the world are airplane hijackings, body odor, and lousy IT telephone customer service.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Yes, there is madness in Sweden, no doubt. The alpha male seems to have lost the backbone their great Viking forefathers have bequeathed them. Something went wrong along the way. If only they would spend some time with their kin on the other side of the pond we would whip them back into shape, pronto. :yesyes:

 

[Crazy4theBrat]

individual cases should judged individually, do not generalize things...
when you kill poor muslims in middle east with your ultimate machine guns, they only one thing to do? suicide bombing...
even in real life when you push someone to the edge, that person could do anything...
if you test people's limit you d be surprised...
blame iran the way they treat their women, but do not blame muslims or iranian people...
that is the all point. look at the austria one asshole raped his own daughter for years, had three kids from her own daughter and made them in the basement...
so should we call all christians are like him?
same story poped in USA 6 months ago...
just be humanist

This is the same excuse people use all the time for these idiots. There are a couple of big differences though.

In the case of the so called "Christian" you came up with, you said it yourself. It was ONE person.

Also, when the story came out about this "Christian" doing this, there were many Christians who rejected his actions and said they were not the actions of a good Christian.

The difference in this and the muslims is that you almost never hear any of the supposedly "peaceful" muslims speaking out against their extremist brothers and sisters.

You say to "blame iran the way they treat their women, but do not blame muslims or iranian people...". The problem with this theory is that the Iranians treat their women this way IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. If the rest of the muslims around them were truly peaceful people, they would step in and keep the radical diaperheads from doing things like that to women.

If you want peace, search for justice.

 

[Ulysses31]

This is the same excuse people use all the time for these idiots. There are a couple of big differences though.

In the case of the so called "Christian" you came up with, you said it yourself. It was ONE person.

Also, when the story came out about this "Christian" doing this, there were many Christians who rejected his actions and said they were not the actions of a good Christian.

The difference in this and the muslims is that you almost never hear any of the supposedly "peaceful" muslims speaking out against their extremist brothers and sisters.

You say to "blame iran the way they treat their women, but do not blame muslims or iranian people...". The problem with this theory is that the Iranians treat their women this way IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. If the rest of the muslims around them were truly peaceful people, they would step in and keep the radical diaperheads from doing things like that to women.

If you want peace, search for justice.

That doesn't make much sense as if you know any muslims (I assume you don't) and ask them what they think about these extremists they will simply reply these people are not muslims and just carry out violence in the name of religion, religion is not a membership club and anyone can go and claim they belong to a religion. When there is a right wing Christian protest against homosexuality at the funeral of a US soldier would you expect every other Christian in the world to come out and condemn them. You got so many different Christian groups/sects like, catholics, protestants, methodists, baptists, anglicans, evangelicalists so imagine these groups getting together to issue statements, it's impossible and Islam is even more segregated than Christianity so simplistic statements like 'all muslims' should do this or say that is not very practical. I've said before US foreign policy needs to be rethought (jump on me all you like) as it will only turn more and more ordinary muslims (who number well over a billion) to terror like the one who tried to bomb Times Square last week, a US citizen. Listen to advice from the great man himself:

 

[bleh50]

Wow guys, I think you need to chill. Yeah I think the last guy that posted is right. I know quite a few Muslim people personally, and they are totally laid back and hang out with other people and all that. They are against violence and just regular people, just seems that they pray differently to Christians.
Yeah, there are fundamentalists and extremists. Crazy people do exist you know.

Whatever.

Also, I don't think people using discriminatory language in this thread is really gonna help anything.

Anyways I hope Sweden can sort this shit out.

 

[Trident1]

Wow guys, I think you need to chill. Yeah I think the last guy that posted is right. I know quite a few Muslim people personally, and they are totally laid back and hang out with other people and all that. They are against violence and just regular people, just seems that they pray differently to Christians.
Yeah, there are fundamentalists and extremists. Crazy people do exist you know.

.

Yeah these laid back muslims stay laid back instead of fighting the islamists who've taken their religion to dangerous grounds. While the laid back types sleep, the jihadists are winning.

 

[roronoa3000]

Really!? They attacked somebody?

..let me know when they do something out of the ordinary that we don't expect.