More Divided Now Than During Civil War

[Will E Worm]

Historian Schweikart: U.S. More Divided Now Than During Civil War

The nation is torn between two different ideologies, says historian and professor Larry Schweikart. In a Newsmax.TV video, Schweikart contends that the nation is at a crossroads, with a large segment of people heavily dependent on the government for daily existence.

America's coming civil war -- makers vs. takers

A house divided against itself cannot stand.”

Abe Lincoln used those words in 1858 to describe a country that was careening toward civil war. Now we’re a house divided again and another civil war is coming, with the 2012 election as its Gettysburg.

Call it America’s coming civil war between the Makers and the Takers.

On one side are those who create wealth, America’s private sector–the very ones targeted by President Obama’s tax hikes announced Monday.

On the other are the public employee unions; left-leaning intelligentsia who see the growth of government as index of progress; and the millions of Americans now dependent on government through a growing network of government transfer payments, from Medicaid and Social Security to college loans and corporate bailouts and handouts (think GM and Solyndra).

Over the past century America’s private sector has been the source of productivity, innovation, creativity, and growth–and gave us the iPhone and iPad. The public sector has been the engine of entitlement, stagnation, and decline -- and gave us Detroit and the South Bronx.
The private sector built the strongest economy in the world. It armed the free world in World War Two, and then in the three decades after the war turned America into the most prosperous society history had ever seen. It revived America in the Reagan and Clinton years, and thanks to the Bush tax cuts brought this country back from economic collapse after 9/11.

In those same years a growing public sector, by contrast, turned Europe into a cesspool of debt, stalled economies, and chronic social dysfunction that’s set the streets of Athens -- and perhaps other European capitals--on fire.

That’s where we’re headed, too, more rapidly than we like to think.

That public sector–state, local, and federal -- now consumes 40% of GDP, compared to 33% just twelve years ago. It’s brought us to the point where 48% of Americans are now on some form of government handout, from 44% when Obama took office–almost a fifth more than during the Reagan years. And too many of them have been programmed to believe they have no future unless the government takes more from the Makers -- precisely what Obama promised on Monday.

So we know which side Obama and the Democratic party are on. Like John Brown’s raid on Harper’s Ferry, ObamaCare has been a wakeup call to what’s at stake–just as the turbulent events in Wisconsin showed how far Democrats are willing to go to win.

We’re not Greece yet -- or on the brink of Bull Run. But it’s time for Romney and Republicans to make clear which side they’re on -- and to make it clear there can’t be government transfer payments, from Medicaid to Social Security, without a strong vibrant private sector to pay for them.

They don’t have to stoop to the Democrats’ tactics. They just have to give our free market, private sector economy the robust defense it deserves.

A country where more Americans go on Social Security disability than get jobs -- as happened last month--can’t stand.

Lincoln hoped in 1861 that the “angels of our better nature” would pull us back from catastrophe. He was wrong. Let’s hope in 2012 those angels still hover -- and can make a house divided whole once more.

Article

 

[Sam Fisher]

:goodpost:

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

:goodpost:

We are in a transition in the US between those who envision the future and those who cling to the past. The world is moving into a new future of less religious influence and meddling in our private lives. The old ways do not want to be pushed aside so they make alot of noise but its becoming more and more apparent that in large population centers this old order is being rejected for a more live and let live frame of mind and the rural areas are clinging to the old 'fear god' ways. It is only a matter of time as baby boomers continue to die off the swing will become more pronounced.

 

[Johan]

The majority of the US people voted for the emocrats, Red States must secede from the US

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

The majority of the US people voted for the emocrats, Red States must secede from the US

Hey Worm how did you hijack Johan's computer?

 

[Sam Fisher]

We are in a transition in the US between those who envision the future and those who cling to the past.

I don't think it's so much of a "those clinging to the past" type of thing, but rather, it's a feeling of traditions and hard work being replaced by "I want the government to tell me what I can drink, eat, what light bulbs I can use, what type of toilet I can install, how much money I can make, what doctor I have to go to, what kind of car I can drive, etc., etc."

The world is moving into a new future of less religious influence and meddling in our private lives.

I think you're mistaken. Actually, the government is TOO involved and meddling TOO much in people's lives. The government is getting TOO involved with things they have no business getting involved in. They should not be in the pockets of the Unions. And, it's gotten to a point now that most younger people are being taught that the rich are evil. And what is so ironic about all of that is.... it's politicians and professors telling them that the rich are bad people. Yet, the politicians and the professors are some of the wealthiest people in the country. Which by the way I have no problem with anyone becoming wealthy. Heck, that's the name of the game. Would you rather be poor, or would you rather be in a financial situation where you could buy things you want, travel at your leisure, and know that the money you made and saved during your life was from hard work? Or, would you rather be told you can't earn a certain amount of money because.....

Ah fuck it! If I'm lucky I'll live another 35 years. At least I have fond memories of coming home from grade school and my mother waiting there at the door, and giving me a snack before I changed clothes and ran outside to play. You see, my mother was a stay at home mom. She cleaned the house, did the laundry, hung it out to dry, did the ironing, made the meals, cleaned up the kitchen afterwards, did the grocery shopping, etc. My dad.... he went to work at 6 AM, at the machine shop and was making $1.25 in 1965 as a machinist. When he got home, he found time to take me to my baseball games, and the practices on Saturdays, and all the other things that a dad does with his boys... flying those line control Cox airplanes, the model rockets, and in the winter, we played ice hockey at a cool indoor rink. He would take us to Cardinals games, and in the winter, to the Blues hockey games.

It was a time when America was strong, had good values, the vast majority worked hard and eventually built themselves up.... and were able to buy a bigger and better home, a new car, better clothes, and not once was there a fear of the government frowning on success. Success was encouraged. America was the envy of the entire world. But, that's all changed now. The vast majority of the younger generation are okay with the government telling them what they can eat, drink, what jobs to work, etc, etc.

I'll say it again... I am glad I got to grow up when I did - drinking water from the spigot or hose when we were thirsty from running and playing outside all day. Being able to run around the neighborhood playing "army", and killing japs and krauts. Nobody freaked out when they saw us. We shared the same bottle of Coke without fear of getting germs or some fucking disease. Boys could be boys! Girls could be girls! Not today.... because they have been taught that "we are all the same". BULLSHIT!

It's no wonder the majority in here don't understand me and don't like me. They never got the opportunity to grow up during the time I did -- the 1950s and 1960s.

I mentioned it before and I'll mention it again. If the Meek are supposed to inherate the earth..... count me out!

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

I don't think it's so much of a "those clinging to the past" type of thing, but rather, it's a feeling of traditions and hard work being replaced by "I want the government to tell me what I can drink, eat, what light bulbs I can use, what type of toilet I can install, how much money I can make, what doctor I have to go to, what kind of car I can drive, etc., etc."



I think you're mistaken. Actually, the government is TOO involved and meddling TOO much in people's lives. The government is getting TOO involved with things they have no business getting involved in. They should not be in the pockets of the Unions. And, it's gotten to a point now that most younger people are being taught that the rich are evil. And what is so ironic about all of that is.... it's politicians and professors telling them that the rich are bad people. Yet, the politicians and the professors are some of the wealthiest people in the country. Which by the way I have no problem with anyone becoming wealthy. Heck, that's the name of the game. Would you rather be poor, or would you rather be in a financial situation where you could buy things you want, travel at your leisure, and know that the money you made and saved during your life was from hard work? Or, would you rather be told you can't earn a certain amount of money because.....

Ah fuck it! If I'm lucky I'll live another 35 years. At least I have fond memories of coming home from grade school and my mother waiting there at the door, and giving me a snack before I changed clothes and ran outside to play. You see, my mother was a stay at home mom. She cleaned the house, did the laundry, hung it out to dry, did the ironing, made the meals, cleaned up the kitchen afterwards, did the grocery shopping, etc. My dad.... he went to work at 6 AM, at the machine shop and was making $1.25 in 1965 as a machinist. When he got home, he found time to take me to my baseball games, and the practices on Saturdays, and all the other things that a dad does with his boys... flying those line control Cox airplanes, the model rockets, and in the winter, we played ice hockey at a cool indoor rink. He would take us to Cardinals games, and in the winter, to the Blues hockey games.

It was a time when America was strong, had good values, the vast majority worked hard and eventually built themselves up.... and were able to buy a bigger and better home, a new car, better clothes, and not once was there a fear of the government frowning on success. Success was encouraged. America was the envy of the entire world. But, that's all changed now. The vast majority of the younger generation are okay with the government telling them what they can eat, drink, what jobs to work, etc, etc.

I'll say it again... I am glad I got to grow up when I did - drinking water from the spigot or hose when we were thirsty from running and playing outside all day. Being able to run around the neighborhood playing "army", and killing japs and krauts. Nobody freaked out when they saw us. We shared the same bottle of Coke without fear of getting germs or some fucking disease. Boys could be boys! Girls could be girls! Not today.... because they have been taught that "we are all the same". BULLSHIT!

It's no wonder the majority in here don't understand me and don't like me. They never got the opportunity to grow up during the time I did -- the 1950s and 1960s.

I mentioned it before and I'll mention it again. If the Meek are supposed to inherate the earth..... count me out!

Oh I agree the government always needs to be checked but in this age of mega corporations we really need to keep eyes on them even more. The mega rich more and more view the general population as just another resource to be used and exploited as they see fit with no choice in the matter. I will fight to my dying breath this country turning into a class run society or just being relegated to some fat cats 'BOY'.

 

[Will E Worm]

We are in a transition in the US between those who envision the future and those who cling to the past. The world is moving into a new future of less religious influence and meddling in our private lives. The old ways do not want to be pushed aside so they make alot of noise but its becoming more and more apparent that in large population centers this old order is being rejected for a more live and let live frame of mind and the rural areas are clinging to the old 'fear god' ways. It is only a matter of time as baby boomers continue to die off the swing will become more pronounced.

No.

The majority of the US people voted for the emocrats, Red States must secede from the US

No, a few states vote for Democrats. Most were red. If all those states were to leave the liberals would not have enough money to give to the lazy people.

 

[Johan]

Hey Worm how did you hijack Johan's computer?

Nope, he didn't. I'm like a cameleon, I adapt myself to what's arounbd me
When I speak to lunatic, I do it as a lunatic with he exact opposite perspective.

No, a few states vote for Democrats. Most were red. If all those states were to leave the liberals would not have enough money to give to the lazy people.

But, since it has been shown that the red states are the welfare states, there would be much less lazy people to receive money from the governement.
Problem solved.

 

[xfire]

No. No, a few states vote for Democrats. Most were red. If all those states were to leave the liberals would not have enough money to give to the lazy people.

Obama carried 26 states.

 

[Deepcover]

So was Congress able to pass the bill on the word lunatic?.......

 

[Rey C.]

We are in a transition in the US between those who envision the future and those who cling to the past. The world is moving into a new future of less religious influence and meddling in our private lives. The old ways do not want to be pushed aside so they make alot of noise but its becoming more and more apparent that in large population centers this old order is being rejected for a more live and let live frame of mind and the rural areas are clinging to the old 'fear god' ways. It is only a matter of time as baby boomers continue to die off the swing will become more pronounced.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. As the GOP becomes basically just a party that only speaks to and encourages the fears of old, angry, less affluent, less educated, White males, the vitriol and extreme paranoia that we've seen since Obama was elected in 2008 will continue to grow within that group. Much like we see with Fisher here, they have a delusional and warped view of the present day world and a delusional and warped view of what the past was (actually) like. According to our dim witted pal Fisher, way back in the day when he was just a little moron, everybody got along, everybody had a job, nobody went to bed hungry, girls weren't having babies out of wedlock, men didn't beat their wives, the coloreds were good and knew their place, the women folk were happy just to be barefoot and pregnant, etc. Even though he is not the oldest person on this board, in his (tiny) brain, his "advanced age" means that he has wisdom that no one else here can even begin to relate to... and that's why no one here likes him. In truth, people (on the left, right and center) don't like him because he's a horse's ass. But like most other truths, that one is also too painful for him to face and accept.

There is a saying you often hear among older race car drivers: "the older I get, the faster I was." It just means that as we get older, we tend to filter out the bad things in our past and only remember the good, happy things. So as you get older, you only remember that fastest lap you had (even though that was the only one you ever had).

Something else that I find incredibly amusing with these paranoid schizo tighty righties: they whine, bitch and moan that Obama is divisive. But they are the ones who have pissed & moaned for the past four years. And they're the ones who want to raise armed militias and now want their states to secede.

You better get your empty heads wrapped around Obama, you traitorous, treasonous, neo-Confederate trash, and realize just how good you've got it with Obama's overly patient ass. Cause sooner than later, there will be someone in the White House who thinks more like I do. And with that, we'll find the great, great grandson of General William Tecumseh Sherman to finish the job that should have been finished the first time around. The way I see it, the only cure for treason or secession talk is a short rope and a tall tree.

Long Live the Republic! :nanner:

SPQA

 

[sean miguel]

If it came down to another Civil War, the red staters have more guns and are better shots.

And who do you think most of the military personnel would side with?

Let's do this.

:drawheart:

 

[twat36975248664224]

Sadly that is true due to lack of compromise in government, news and society now and days. Also people have the freedom to be an asshole and the right to prove it.

 

[Rey C.]

If it came down to another Civil War, the red staters have more guns and are better shots.

And who do you think most of the military personnel would side with?

Let's do this.

:drawheart:

The red states had more guns and were (supposedly) better shots in 1861 too. And that turned out how? But I'd say there are as many guns in East L.A. and the Southside of Chicago as all of Georgia and Alabama - and I doubt they're packin' Marlin 30-30 deer rifles in the 'hood.

As for who the military would side with... by their oath, they would side with the republic, which they swore to protect and defend. Otherwise, it's "swingin' from the old oak tree." :sing: And besides, I'd take a look at the ethnic and gender make-up of the present day military - it ain't quite what it was in 1861. Somehow, I just don't see Jamaal, Jose and Julie fighting for Bubba and Jimmy Joe Jr.'s treasonous, secessionist cause. Plus, Bubba and Jimmy Joe Jr. are in their late 50's, have beer guts, asthma and gout. The last real fight either of them had was when the hound dog swiped a T-bone off the kitchen table 4th of July 1993.

But here's reality: nobody is going to secede. It's just more crazy talk from the wingnuts on the paranoid schizo right. You have a few hundred thousand who are silly and foolish in the head and they'll sign petitions. But as far as taking up arms, getting thrown in jail or having their doors kicked in by troops... they're not that stupid. Crazy, but not completely stupid. They're more likely to take up arms if DirecTV cancels their NFL Sunday Ticket than because of anything that happens with the government.

 

[sean miguel]

As for who the military would side with... by their oath, they would side with the republic, which they swore to protect and defend.

The U.S. Armed Forces oath is first and foremost to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
The only way another U.S. civil war would break out is if there were a true constitutional crisis. And in that case I believe most in the military would remain true to that oath.

But here's reality: nobody is going to secede.

I agree, it's alot of heated rhetoric. Things would really have to hit the fan for it to get to that point.

They're more likely to take up arms if DirecTV cancels their NFL Sunday Ticket than because of anything that happens with the government.

True. Which is why the next civil war has to start after the superbowl ... and after the off season free agency period .. but not before the NFL draft in April. Then there's mini-camps and then training camp right around the corner from that .. then preseason. Oh forget it.

 

[Sam Fisher]

But I'd say there are as many guns in East L.A. and the Southside of Chicago as all of Georgia and Alabama - and I doubt they're packin' Marlin 30-30 deer rifles in the 'hood.

Not even close. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/9841-percent-firearms-ownership-state.html

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. As the GOP becomes basically just a party that only speaks to and encourages the fears of old, angry, less affluent, less educated, White males, the vitriol and extreme paranoia that we've seen since Obama was elected in 2008 will continue to grow within that group. Much like we see with Fisher here, they have a delusional and warped view of the present day world and a delusional and warped view of what the past was (actually) like. According to our dim witted pal Fisher, way back in the day when he was just a little moron, everybody got along, everybody had a job, nobody went to bed hungry, girls weren't having babies out of wedlock, men didn't beat their wives, the coloreds were good and knew their place, the women folk were happy just to be barefoot and pregnant, etc. Even though he is not the oldest person on this board, in his (tiny) brain, his "advanced age" means that he has wisdom that no one else here can even begin to relate to... and that's why no one here likes him. In truth, people (on the left, right and center) don't like him because he's a horse's ass. But like most other truths, that one is also too painful for him to face and accept.

There is a saying you often hear among older race car drivers: "the older I get, the faster I was." It just means that as we get older, we tend to filter out the bad things in our past and only remember the good, happy things. So as you get older, you only remember that fastest lap you had (even though that was the only one you ever had).

Something else that I find incredibly amusing with these paranoid schizo tighty righties: they whine, bitch and moan that Obama is divisive. But they are the ones who have pissed & moaned for the past four years. And they're the ones who want to raise armed militias and now want their states to secede.

You better get your empty heads wrapped around Obama, you traitorous, treasonous, neo-Confederate trash, and realize just how good you've got it with Obama's overly patient ass. Cause sooner than later, there will be someone in the White House who thinks more like I do. And with that, we'll find the great, great grandson of General William Tecumseh Sherman to finish the job that should have been finished the first time around. The way I see it, the only cure for treason or secession talk is a short rope and a tall tree.

Long Live the Republic! :nanner:

SPQA

Great post , love the last paragraph if you talk treason a hole you shall fill.

 

[sean miguel]

You better get your empty heads wrapped around Obama, you traitorous, treasonous, neo-Confederate trash, and realize just how good you've got it with Obama's overly patient ass. Cause sooner than later, there will be someone in the White House who thinks more like I do. And with that, we'll find the great, great grandson of General William Tecumseh Sherman to finish the job that should have been finished the first time around. The way I see it, the only cure for treason or secession talk is a short rope and a tall tree.

Long Live the Republic! :nanner:

SPQA

Wow, I missed that part. Extreme nut case much?

 

[Rey C.]

Not even close. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/9841-percent-firearms-ownership-state.html

Yeah, cause I'm sure every urban gun owner answers surveys on what and how many they have. Riiight.

Wow, I missed that part. Extreme nut case much?

Yes, I do (strongly) believe that treason should be met with swift and certain death. I believe that anyone seeking to tear down the republic, by taking up arms, is a traitor to the republic. Peaceful protest is acceptable. That's what keeps us honest. But these wingnuts who are running around forming militias and talking about "taking back their country".... follow the lead of W.T. Sherman. He was also a student of Roman tactics. Always go with what works. :yesyes: