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Mexico wants to sue American gun mfgrs

Facetious

Moderated
I'm getting just a little fucking tired of hearing from this cunt they call a president, and even more tired of the socialist fucktards in our government that find passing ANY additional gun laws, acceptable. Hillary, Biden, and Obama, are clearly socialist, and find the Constitution to be nothing more then an obstacle to be destroyed on there way to creating a one world government, that answers only to the greedy, corrupt pieces of shit at the UN.

Hear, hear!

I'm getting tired of ''Obama The Destroyer'' - the teleprompter reader in chief basically ignoring the substantial spike in the cost of oil over the last two months as he's throwing parties at the whitehouse and hosting $5,000 dollar a plate campaign benefit dinners! Isn't his target $1 Billion for his 2nd term campaign? :flame:

Yea, the guy is as pompous and inept as they come, he scares the hell out of me, he almost had me considering going back to church.
 
They need to sue the ATF and Holder for facilitating the murder of hundreds of Mexicans.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml

Say what you will about the 2nd Amendment, but the Federal Government facilitated murder. Where is the Brady Bunch on that matter?

Hear, hear!

I'm getting tired of ''Obama The Destroyer'' - the teleprompter reader in chief basically ignoring the substantial spike in the cost of oil over the last two months as he's throwing parties at the whitehouse and hosting $5,000 dollar a plate campaign benefit dinners! Isn't his target $1 Billion for his 2nd term campaign? :flame:

Yea, the guy is as pompous and inept as they come, he scares the hell out of me, he almost had me considering going back to church.

Project Fast and Furious formerly/concurrently Project Gunrunner started trials and test-bedding in Laredo, 2005 under Bush.....

Some of the particulars....
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
Mexico :facepalm:



Hear, hear!

I'm getting tired of ''Obama The Destroyer'' - the teleprompter reader in chief basically ignoring the substantial spike in the cost of oil over the last two months as he's throwing parties at the whitehouse and hosting $5,000 dollar a plate campaign benefit dinners! Isn't his target $1 Billion for his 2nd term campaign? :flame:

Yea, the guy is as pompous and inept as they come, he scares the hell out of me, he almost had me considering going back to church.

In February 2009, Whitman announced her candidacy for Governor of California, becoming the third woman in a twenty year period to run for the office. She won the Republican primary in June 2010. The fourth wealthiest woman in the state of California with a net worth of $1.3 billion in 2010, she spent more of her own money on her candidacy than any other self-funded political candidate in U.S. history, spending $178.5 million total. Whitman lost to Jerry Brown in the November 2 election.

Money doesn't and shouldn't matter.

Why do we vote for only wealthy candidates?

Then say tax the wealthy? :facepalm:
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Hear, hear!

I'm getting tired of ''Obama The Destroyer'' - the teleprompter reader in chief basically ignoring the substantial spike in the cost of oil over the last two months as he's throwing parties at the whitehouse and hosting $5,000 dollar a plate campaign benefit dinners! Isn't his target $1 Billion for his 2nd term campaign? :flame:

Yea, the guy is as pompous and inept as they come, he scares the hell out of me, he almost had me considering going back to church.

Wandering off topic a bit, aren't we? But anyway, I would think you would be the one guy who would be against any sort of government interference in the free market: the global trading of oil and the resulting price. Whether because of an increased global demand or the actions of speculators, that is the free market. And in the free market, sometimes you're the windshield... and sometimes you're the bug.

Getting back on topic (;)), if the Mexican government would stop dragging its feet and give the ATF and DoJ the serial numbers from ALL of the captured weapons, it would be relatively easy to track the suppliers. Course, as more than a few of them would be traced back to the Mexican military and security forces, that might open up another can of worms that neither government wants to talk about. And if the Mexican government hadn't drug its feet for year after year on closely inspecting vehicles crossing INTO Mexico, the flow of weapons wouldn't be as fluid as it currently is. And... AND... if the Mexican government had taken steps (before last year) to track large deposits into Mexican banks, it would have been easier for them to identify illegal funds. And as far as the U.S. is concerned, if more of our focus was on the money and the banks that launder it in this country, and less on potheads selling a bag of weed at 7-11 at 3AM, this whole bullshit drug war that's been dragging on for 40 years wouldn't be such a TOTAL JOKE!

IMO, one doesn't have to watch The Wire to know that this is all about putting on a show for the rubes.
 
This is interesting.
Weapons ARE our no. 1 export.
However, my question is if they win the lawsuit...
what will they do with the money?
Fund better quality of life in Mexico?
or buy more guns to take out the mobsters?
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
Ah The Wire, good fucking show. Too bad about Omar though.
I didn't see that one coming........but neither did he! ha ha ha.

Whats a rube?
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Money doesn't and shouldn't matter.

Why do we vote for only wealthy candidates?

Then say tax the wealthy? :facepalm:

Unfortunately, Will, money (in politics) has always mattered. You've only heard of a gent named Julius Caesar because he was able to latch onto a wealthy benefactor relatively early in his political career. Either you have your own or you ingratiate yourself to those who do. And we vote for them (at the national level) because those are the only choices that most people have heard of.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
Unfortunately, Will, money (in politics) has always mattered. You've only heard of a gent named Julius Caesar because he was able to latch onto a wealthy benefactor relatively early in his political career. Either you have your own or you ingratiate yourself to those who do. And we vote for them (at the national level) because those are the only choices that most people have heard of.

Because they are lazy and apathetic and will not look into anything for themselves.

Voting should be taken far more seriously.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Because they are lazy and apathetic and will not look into anything for themselves.

Voting should be taken far more seriously.

I cannot disagree with that, young wizard. That also goes a long way toward explaning the reliance on the two party system that plagues us.
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
I wonder just how they get so rich.......most every politician is a multi millionare, some mega millionares.
Talk about something being rotton in denmark.
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Wandering off topic a bit, aren't we? But anyway, I would think you would be the one guy who would be against any sort of government interference in the free market: the global trading of oil and the resulting price. Whether because of an increased global demand or the actions of speculators, that is the free market. And in the free market, sometimes you're the windshield... and sometimes you're the bug.

Getting back on topic (;)), if the Mexican government would stop dragging its feet and give the ATF and DoJ the serial numbers from ALL of the captured weapons, it would be relatively easy to track the suppliers. Course, as more than a few of them would be traced back to the Mexican military and security forces, that might open up another can of worms that neither government wants to talk about. And if the Mexican government hadn't drug its feet for year after year on closely inspecting vehicles crossing INTO Mexico, the flow of weapons wouldn't be as fluid as it currently is. And... AND... if the Mexican government had taken steps (before last year) to track large deposits into Mexican banks, it would have been easier for them to identify illegal funds. And as far as the U.S. is concerned, if more of our focus was on the money and the banks that launder it in this country, and less on potheads selling a bag of weed at 7-11 at 3AM, this whole bullshit drug war that's been dragging on for 40 years wouldn't be such a TOTAL JOKE!

IMO, one doesn't have to watch The Wire to know that this is all about putting on a show for the rubes.

Off topic : As hard working taxpaying citizens, we should NEVER be the bug! His response, to my general, and off topic statement regarding our current group of politicians. It also points out that priorities in this administration are basically...FUCKED UP!

On topic: those serial numbers will NEVER show up, because they would prove that, what I would guess to be less then 5% of the guns these animals use, come from American shops, or gun shows. If they are traced back here, I would bet the farm they were stolen, or coming from a corrupt government official/agent in our ranks. Just because the gun is American, doesn't mean it comes from America. Many NATO countries use Colt M4 carbines...and contrary to what most anti gun people will tell you, it isn't all that easy to convert a semi auto, to a full auto, and even if you had the resources, why would you do it, if you had the connections to buy military grade/spec weapons, that come right out of the box full auto, ready to roll?

I agree with all of your other points about laundering money, etc.

Mr_Balls said:
This is interesting.
Weapons ARE our no. 1 export.
However, my question is if they win the lawsuit...
what will they do with the money?
Fund better quality of life in Mexico?
or buy more guns to take out the mobsters?

Please show proof of your statement regarding the export of weapons.
Mexico will do nothing to help their people...they are one of the richest nations in the world, yet their people live in poverty. They are kept as subjects, not citizens. I would whole heartily agree to arming Mexican rebels that want to over throw their Government...just for the amusement of it.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Off topic : As hard working taxpaying citizens, we should NEVER be the bug! His response, to my general, and off topic statement regarding our current group of politicians. It also points out that priorities in this administration are basically...FUCKED UP!

I'm speaking about the functions and results of the free market, that so many these days treat as a quasi-religion. And not to be blasphemous, especially on Easter weekend, but the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. And the very same is true of the free market. Whether the market is gasoline or used cars, there is not a case to be made where you will always find yourself on the right side of the trade... and there is nothing that the government can do to give you that guarantee. So yeah, at some point, you will be the bug. Speculators aside, the price of oil is basically the result of the functional interaction between supply and demand. What would Facetious have Obama do, release all of the oil in the reserve... do the "drill, baby, drill" dance and expect that oil companies would continue to produce a steady supply, even as the price per barrel fell to something below the cost of production??? The free market does not work that way. We're all bugs at some point. Best to just avoid windshields as much as possible.

I could certainly join you in criticizing some of this administration's priorities. But then I could also do a long diatribe on the fucked up priorities of the last administration too. Both Bush and Greenspan were more than happy to talk about and take credit for the record home ownership rates a few years ago. And with real wages stagnant or falling, because the U.S. hasn't had a meaningful manufacturing strategy for decades, both Bush and Greenspan were happy to see the U.S. economy chugging along, fueled by people using their homes as ATM machines. How many cases did the Bush administration file with the WTO against China's unfair trade practices and their theft of intellectual property? How would his plan to privatize Social Security (which I had been in favor of) have worked out? How did Bush pay for his "No Child Left Behind" federal mandate on schools? How did he pay for Medicare Part D? How did he pay for the war in Iraq? In fact, why are we even in Iraq? And since we're talking about Mexico here, what exactly did Bush/Cheney do to reform or fix the immigration situation in the U.S.? I personally saw one of the maps that had been passed out on the Mexican side of the border, directing people to the best routes for illegally entering the U.S. That was in 2004 - I remember because I was working away from home in a hell hole of a place. Bush was President. What did he do about that?

Over the course of my life, I've voted for more Republicans than I have Democrats. But since about 1999, the GOP has pretty much been taken over by, controlled by, or just (IMO) overly influenced by people who basically make me sick to my stomach: nation building neocons, kooky conspiracy theorists and religious whack jobs. I got suckered into voting for Bush in 2000 (though I prefered McCain - the McCain of the '90's, not the Rovebot that ran with that moronic, clueless twit from Alaska in 2008) because I was dopey enough to believe his little speech about not believing in "nation building". But with Bush/Cheney, we all learned what a nation building "neocon" truly was. There are several thousand dead American kids, who gave their all in Iraq, who know (in Heaven) too. And before anyone says, "yeah, but Bush isn't running in 2012"... you are most correct. And then you can explain to me the differences (actual differences) between Bush and most of the front-runners or mid-packers that we're hearing about now.

If Obama gets his way, my taxes will go up under his plan. And no, I don't like paying more taxes - other than the 80's, the W. Bush years were pretty good for me personally (for the country, not so much). But I'd rather go Obama's way, and see defense cut (along with whatever entitlements that the GOPers can squeeze out), than believe that horseshit fantasy that Paul Ryan is singing, that the unemployment rate will fall to 2.8% (not an Econ. major, is he?), and we can cut the top rate to 25%, while taking the home mortgage deduction away from middle class people. Oh, and here's a great one (speaking of the free market and becoming a bug on the windshield)... let's repeal "Obamacare" and also gut Medicare at the same time. Yeah, let's watch a bunch of people 62+ trying to get private health insurance in a few years (what with their pre-existing conditions and such). That should be totally comical. Like starving rats fighting over the last grain of wheat in a burning barn, I would say. Wouldn't it be more humane to just send out the military and have them shoot everyone who makes less than six figures??? :dunno: I do more than OK now. And I'm humbled by my blessings, not full of pride. But when I stop working, my income will surely drop to a point that spending a grand a month for a junk 60/40 policy will bother me. And considering some of the health problems I had last year, I already know for a fact that a private insurance company would laugh me out of their office if I asked them to cover anything worse than an ingrown toenail - if they would write me a policy at all! And at the age of 66 (or whatever), the government squid who hands me a medical voucher, so that I could have my cataracts taken off by someone who last practiced medicine on a goat in Pakistan might just be the one to make Fox News and CNN with me, as I do my best impression of the guy from "Falling Down".

If an intelligent, non-hyperbolic, non :tinhat: Jack Kemp type steps forward for the GOP between now and November of 2012, he will likely get my vote. But if it's the same group of clowns that I'm hearing about now, Big Daddy O (as Georges calls him) can expect me to line up for him again. At least with him, I pretty much know where he stands now (or where he doesn't). About the only Republicans who I even respect at this point are Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan. I didn't say I agreed with either of them 100% of the time, but I do respect them for their candor. But neither of them is running, as far as I know.

On Topic: as far as Mexico is concerned, IMO, it won't matter whether it's the donkey or the elephant in the White House, nothing has been done and I don't expect anything to be done... until a plane load of American business executives gets torched by an RPG while sitting on the runway in Mexico City, there to pick out their next outsourcing site. Then... and only THEN... it will be 82nd Airborne time.
 
Please show proof of your statement regarding the export of weapons.
Mexico will do nothing to help their people...they are one of the richest nations in the world, yet their people live in poverty. They are kept as subjects, not citizens. I would whole heartily agree to arming Mexican rebels that want to over throw their Government...just for the amusement of it.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business

I guess I meant to say,
we are the no. 1
exporter of weapons.
 

Facetious

Moderated
What would Facetious have Obama do, release all of the oil in the reserve...
The president mentioned the possibility of releasing some of it about a month ago. Even if all of our reserves were released, It's a drop in the bucket . . . no solution there.
do the "drill, baby, drill" dance and expect that oil companies would continue to produce a steady supply, even as the price per barrel fell to something below the cost of production???
When do you foresee a domestic barrel of oil dropping below the cost of production?

Here's a proposal that I though was interesting
http://www.kgoam810.com/Article.asp?id=2068523&spid=33179

It makes sense to me :dunno:
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
The president mentioned the possibility of releasing some of it about a month ago. Even if all of our reserves were released, It's a drop in the bucket . . . no solution there.

I agree.

When do you foresee a domestic barrel of oil dropping below the cost of production?

As supply approaches demand, the prices will begin to fall, just as with any commodity/product. How far, how fast... or what is an "acceptable" price for gas in the minds of U.S. consumers, I have no idea.

As of 2007, the "marginal cost" of oil (the point below which it becomes uneconomic to bring new non-OPEC oil projects to market) was somewhere around an average $80/barrel - but there are many skewed figures within that average, influenced by many variables.

As for the cost of production, like the marginal cost, it depends on many variables. But here's what I found on Reuters:


Oilfields Estimated Production
/source Costs ($ 2008)
Mideast/N.Africa oilfields 6 - 28
Other conventional oilfields 6 - 39
CO2 enhanced oil recovery 30 - 80
Deep/ultra-deep-water oilfields 32 - 65
Enhanced oil recovery 32 - 82
Arctic oilfields 32 - 100
Heavy oil/bitumen 32 - 68
Oil shales 52 - 113
Gas to liquids 38 - 113
Coal to liquids 60 - 113


Here's a proposal that I though was interesting
http://www.kgoam810.com/Article.asp?id=2068523&spid=33179

It makes sense to me :dunno:

That makes sense to me too. One issue with natural gas powered engines is they apparently don't offer the same amount of torque as gasoline, or even ethanol powered engines. But I'm not an engineer, so I don't know how much of a problem that is or what the possible solutions might be (if it is a problem at all). But I believe UPS uses nat-gas vehicles in part of their commercial fleet. So it couldn't be too serious of a problem.

Also, I'm against corn based ethanol. But I'm VERY much for cellulosic ethanol (switchgrass, etc.). It's not an either/or between nat-gas and ethanol though. It could easily be a two-pronged (or even a three or four pronged) approach... if these bribe taking politicians could wean themselves off the teat of Big Oil (and Big Corn). And if the American people would take the time to get educated and make demands on them, instead of being led around like sheep.
 
I agree.

As supply approaches demand, the prices will begin to fall, just as with any commodity/product. How far, how fast... or what is an "acceptable" price for gas in the minds of U.S. consumers, I have no idea.
Food for thought...tapping the strategic reserves needn't have a direct effect on supply to have an affect on pricing. Remember 2 things; oil pricing now is disproportionately influenced by negative speculation generated by mideast turmoil AND oil producers influence the marketplace by controlling increases and decreases in production. Therefore, that should mean there is no supply problem....Hence, tapping the strategic reserve as a means of easing pricing wouldn't need to affect supply to influence pricing nor would/should it be intended to.:2 cents:

Butt sense OP is determined to hijack his own thread...why not make a party of it...? I just lovvvvve Vanilla cakes....vvvv:drool1:
vanilladevillecandid07.jpg
 
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