Citizenship through parents courtesy of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services website.
http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents
http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents
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Kiss Chris Christie Goodbye As A Presidential Pick
- Thread starter Mayhem
- Start date
Yes, but technically on American soil in Panama.
Yeah, but the scholarly debate isn't over citizenship, it's over the "Natural-born citizen" clause. It's undefined, and in regards to the Presidency it's never been ruled on. Thus it's all contentious.
Article II of the Constitution states that "no person except a natural born Citizen shall be eligible to the Office of President."
And the First Congress in 1790 further defined natural born citizens as "The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States."
And the First Congress in 1790 further defined natural born citizens as "The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States."
Yeah, but you're quoting the Naturalization Act of 1790, which doesn't actually work. Congress doesn't have the power to redefine (or I suppose "define" minus the re- is more accurate since it was never defined in the first place, thus creating the problem) the Constitution without an amendment, which they didn't do. They just passed a law. The Constitution defines the laws congress can pass, the laws congress passes don't define the Constitution. It's a one way street.
Until SCOTUS rules on it, or there's a Constitutional amendment to define it... it's a grey area.
But unless the Naturalization Act of 1790 is ruled unconstitutional isn't it the law of the land?
As it stands, I don't think it really applies in any functional way. A non-US born candidate can run and win, since it's not clearly spelled out that they can't, but since the Naturalization Act of 1790 isn't an amendment someone can challenge a non-American born President as being unconstitutional and SCOTUS would have to decide. The Act could be introduced as evidence to suggest that's what the Constitution means (since they're from around the same time, and involved some of the same people in the writing, thus it could be seen as showing meaning/motivation), but since it's not a Constitutional amendment it doesn't necessarily hold a heck of a lot of weight. It can't be viewed as anything concrete because it's much easier to pass a law than a Constitutional amendment and that's by design. So it'd likely end up being just one piece of the puzzle that would end up being taken into account when trying to decide what is actually Constitutional there.
The reigning theory is that simply being born a citizen is enough (I mean, I'm not even sure why so many people insist on interpreting "natural born" as meaning born specifically on American soil... if that was intended, why not specify it?), and that if it were put to SCOTUS that it'd go that way, but... really, until it's decided it's undecided and open to challenge.
I'd kinda like to see someone born outside the US elected and it challenged if for no other reason than to have it put to rest because the argument against it strikes me as somewhat... pointless and silly. Strikes me as a sign of "Patriotism" gone awry, and reminds me of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy where people are questioning if an American is American enough to really be a true American. Seems like something no one would bother with unless they had a bone to pick or they were stuck up their own ass.
I looked into it further and the Naturalization Act of 1790 was superceded several times but only to expand who was considered a natural born citizen. The part about someone born on foreign soil to a U.S. citizen wasn't repealed.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
I hope an investigation goes on and he throws the hammer down. I don't think this has anything to do with him running for president since he said that he won't run as long as he is governor.
This is a speed bump for him. However, how he handles it is a good indication of his leadership skill.
How he already handled it, is an indication as well. He needed a good punch in his big gut to bring him down a peg. It will probably help him in the long run. I have no idea if he knew or didn't, but this should stop the cockiness.
How he already handled it, is an indication as well. He needed a good punch in his big gut to bring him down a peg. It will probably help him in the long run. I have no idea if he knew or didn't, but this should stop the cockiness.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
He fired Deputy Chief of Staff Bridget Anne Kelly and told his former campaign manager Bill Stepien to resign his political party consultancy. He says that he never knew about those goings-ons and when initially confronting them about it, they lied to him. This comes after David Wildstein, Christie's Port Authority man, resigned last month when the story first broke. Wildstein has just been found of contempt of court for refusing to testify at the hearings.
I'll side with the Fat Man on this. The allegations came up and people lied to him. As a boss in any business, you cut this kind of shit clean and pick up the pieces. If there is a smoking gun in Christies hands then it will be found.
I'll side with the Fat Man on this. The allegations came up and people lied to him. As a boss in any business, you cut this kind of shit clean and pick up the pieces. If there is a smoking gun in Christies hands then it will be found.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Any republican who is happy about this is helping to write his own party's epitaph. Christie is just about the only republican for whom I would consider (I said consider) voting for president. As a potential crossover voter, I don't think I am alone. If it's Rand Paul, Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio.....no way.
Like Bob says, unless the smoking gun is found in Christie's pocket, this too shall pass.
Like Bob says, unless the smoking gun is found in Christie's pocket, this too shall pass.
Mayhem
Banned
The people who are implicated and who have either been fired or resigned didn't get their jobs by way of a resume' and a hiring manager. Governors especially have a better-than-average knowledge of who they have working for them. And if they don't have a better idea of who they have working for them, and what they are capable of, they are negigent to the point of incompetence.
This isn't any old bridge and this isn't any state line. Christie's previous attempts to blow this off as an insignificant non-story is damning all on its own.
And I'm mindful of the fact that if certain elements of American politics are going to tag the President over how he personally oversees the security arrangements of a diplomatic mission 10,000 miles away, it's perfectly reasonable to tag the Governor of NJ for his oversight of the most heavily trafficked bridge in the country.
This isn't any old bridge and this isn't any state line. Christie's previous attempts to blow this off as an insignificant non-story is damning all on its own.
And I'm mindful of the fact that if certain elements of American politics are going to tag the President over how he personally oversees the security arrangements of a diplomatic mission 10,000 miles away, it's perfectly reasonable to tag the Governor of NJ for his oversight of the most heavily trafficked bridge in the country.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Granted, those people were not elected and placed in office by Christie. They were given those jobs with the trust that they would serve well. He says that they fucked him. I believe it. By the same token, family members fuck each other. That's why being a boss sucks. You can't be everywhere to monitor everybody but you are responsible for everything that everybody does on your watch. The dead was done and can't be reversed. A strong handling of such situations reflects well.
Still, Christie ain't gonna run.
Christie is a steaming pile of filth and does a good job of demonstrating the legacy of corruption that has lined New Jersey from its earliest days as a state, I think the majority of New Jersey tax revenue goes towards Christie's meal tabs
That was easy to type, could you back this up with some facts that you can demonstrate? Something real?
Maddow's theory does seem a lot more plausible.
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