Jews as a race vs. a religion as it relates to anti-semitism

[sean miguel]

In the wake of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting and the race to blame President Trump by the usuals, one response is that Donald Trump couldn't be anti-Semitic because both his daughter Ivanka Trump and his son-in-law are jewish. If I'm not mistaken, Jared Kushner is but Ivanka is not. Judaism may be her religion but the Nazis weren't taking skull measurements to discern someone's religion.

 

[georges]

In the wake of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting and the race to blame President Trump by the usuals, one response is that Donald Trump couldn't be anti-Semitic because both his daughter Ivanka Trump and his son-in-law are jewish. If I'm not mistaken, Jared Kushner is but Ivanka is not. Judaism may be her religion but the Nazis weren't taking skull measurements to discern someone's religion.

Yes correct :yesyes: Let's not forget that Dems adore Farrakhan, which he is a jew-hater with the same rhetoric as the Synagogue Shooter
https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/i...&ff_campaign=manualpost&ff_content=2018-10-30

 

[sean miguel]

There are atheist jews and <gasp> christian jews. Those who hate the jews don't make the distinction. They would've all been soap and lamp shades.

 

[~~whimsy~~]

And let's not forget Al Sharpton's Crown Heights riot.

It's name only. Just ask a hater where Jew derives from. I doubt many would say Judea(ns).

 

[pool_hustler]

Let's not forget that Dems adore Farrakhan

Forgive me, but that's just an incredibly stupid comment.

 

[pool_hustler]

..

Conservatives LOVE to conflate disapproval of the Netenyahu administration with hatred for Israel and/or Jews.
It's one of their favorite little games
And of course it's complete horseshit.
But that doesn't matter to the low information righty base.

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

Linda Sarsour would disagree with you.

 

[georges]

Conservatives LOVE to conflate disapproval of the Netenyahu administration with hatred for Israel and/or Jews.
It's one of their favorite little games
And of course it's complete horseshit.
But that doesn't matter to the low information righty base.

Oh really??? Have you forgotten that your dear leader was a huge fan of Farrakhan??? Or perhaps are you denying the reality?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5314421/Journalist-reveals-photo-Obama-Louis-Farrakhan.html
https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Why-did-Barack-Obama-meet-with-Louis-Farrakhan-in-2005-540510
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/a...-and-the-photo-that-might-have-derailed-obama

Natanyahu is very patriotic and protective of his country but I am not sure that you even knew or remembered that his brother Colonel Yeohnathan Natanyahu died in the Entebbe raid in 1976 freeing hostages.

Your ideas are vehicled and reflect what the Obama muppet mainstream media channels want you to think.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Conservatives LOVE to conflate disapproval of the Netenyahu administration with hatred for Israel and/or Jews.
It's one of their favorite little games
And of course it's complete horseshit.
But that doesn't matter to the low information righty base.

Donald Trump has a 90 percent approval rating in Israel and by Israelis.
What Reform Jews like yourself think about Israeli politics, Netanyahu or Trump is inconsequential and irrelevant.

 

[georges]

Donald Trump has a 90 percent approval rating in Israel and by Israelis.
What Reform Jews like yourself think about Israeli politics, Netanyahu or Trump is inconsequential and irrelevant.

absolutely :yesyes::clap:

 

[Johan]

Jews as a RACE ?
I'm not calling you anti-semitic, I assume it was a mistake but only anti-semitics talk about "race" when it comes to jews.
Assuming there are differebt races (that's not what I think but let's assume that) there's nothing that would support the claim that there is a jewish race.

"Jews as a people" or "Jews as a nation" would be fine but "Jews as a race" is borderline anti-semitic (but, again, I'm not calling you anti-semitic, I think it was just an honest mistake).

 

[sean miguel]

Jews as a RACE ?
I'm not calling you anti-semitic, I assume it was a mistake but only anti-semitics talk about "race" when it comes to jews.

That's not true. There are jews themselves who believe they are a "race." And though technically, race isn't the same as ethnicity or a "people," those terms are used interchangeably in common parlance which is how I choose to use them here. There have been studies (by jews) that show that they share the same distinct genetic markers or whatever it's called indicating a common ancestry with origins in the middle East. That genetic link has remained despite the diaspora nearly 2000 years ago. They also share common genetic markers with Arabs which lends credence to them being "cousins" as in both being descendants of Abraham.

But I think you miss the point of my original post. Anti-semites (of which I am not) such as nazis, jihadis, Calypso Louie Farrakhan, etc., do believe jews are a distinct race and an inferior one regardless of what any particular jew's religious beliefs are.

Again, there are atheist jews, there are no atheist christians or atheist muslims. I'm half-filipino and my dad is anglo. If I were to convert to Judaism today would I be any more jewish than say Albert Einstein who as I understand it was an atheist but was very proud of his jewish heritage? Of course not.

 

[sean miguel]

Let's not forget that Dems adore Farrakhan

Forgive me, but that's just an incredibly stupid comment.

How many democrats have publicly denounced Farrakhan? You could count them on one hand. "Hitler was a very great man."

Liberals are liberals first.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

That's not true. There are jews themselves who believe they are a "race."

I've heard similar things straight from the mouth of Jewish people. Not sure if they used the exact word "race" but they felt like they were separate more than just by religion. To me a European Jew is Caucasian like me but different through religion. They might breed in different or tighter circles but that does not change the race unless people from places like West Virginia or Kentucky started their own race too.

 

[sean miguel]

DNA Links Prove Jews Are a 'Race,' Says Genetics Expert

Conjuring fear of Nazism and anti-Semitism, Jews recoil from the thought that Judaism might be a race, but medical geneticist Harry Ostrer insists the 'biological basis of Jewishness' cannot be ignored.

In his new book, “Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People,” Harry Ostrer, a medical geneticist and professor at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, claims that Jews are different, and the differences are not just skin deep. Jews exhibit, he writes, a distinctive genetic signature. Considering that the Nazis tried to exterminate Jews based on their supposed racial distinctiveness, such a conclusion might be a cause for concern. But Ostrer sees it as central to Jewish identity.

“Who is a Jew?” has been a poignant question for Jews throughout our history. It evokes a complex tapestry of Jewish identity made up of different strains of religious beliefs, cultural practices and blood ties to ancient Palestine and modern Israel. But the question, with its echoes of genetic determinism, also has a dark side.

Geneticists have long been aware that certain diseases, from breast cancer to Tay-Sachs, disproportionately affect Jews. Ostrer, who is also director of genetic and genomic testing at Montefiore Medical Center, goes further, maintaining that Jews are a homogeneous group with all the scientific trappings of what we used to call a “race.”

For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” Scholars from Josephus to Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in “the tribe.”

Ostrer explains how this concept took on special meaning in the 20th century, as genetics emerged as a viable scientific enterprise. Jewish distinctiveness might actually be measurable empirically. In “Legacy,” he first introduces us to Maurice Fishberg, an upwardly mobile Russian-Jewish immigrant to New York at the fin de siècle. Fishberg fervently embraced the anthropological fashion of the era, measuring skull sizes to explain why Jews seemed to be afflicted with more diseases than other groups — what he called the “peculiarities of the comparative pathology of the Jews.” It turns out that Fishberg and his contemporary phrenologists were wrong: Skull shape provides limited information about human differences. But his studies ushered in a century of research linking Jews to genetics.

“Legacy” may cause its readers discomfort. To some Jews, the notion of a genetically related people is an embarrassing remnant of early Zionism that came into vogue at the height of the Western obsession with race, in the late 19th century. Celebrating blood ancestry is divisive, they claim: The authors of “The Bell Curve” were vilified 15 years ago for suggesting that genes play a major role in IQ differences among racial groups.

Furthermore, sociologists and cultural anthropologists, a disproportionate number of whom are Jewish, ridicule the term “race,” claiming there are no meaningful differences between ethnic groups. For Jews, the word still carries the especially odious historical association with Nazism and the Nuremberg Laws. They argue that Judaism has morphed from a tribal cult into a worldwide religion enhanced by thousands of years of cultural traditions.

the rest here:

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.5220113

 

[Johan]

How many democrats have publicly denounced Farrakhan? You could count them on one hand. "Hitler was a very great man."

Liberals are liberals first.

Obama Denounces Farrakhan Endorsement
https://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/02/26/obama-denounces-farrakhan-endorsement/

On the other side, even if he had called him out in 2000, during the campaign, after David Duke had endorsed him, Trump refused to denounce him, claiming he knew nthing about him...


Now why so few democrats denounce Farrakhan ? I'd say not to make him some publicity.
There no such things as bad publicty.
Correct me if I'm wrong but during the campaign, the Left kept attacking Trump again and again, calling him an idiot, a nazi, a fascist, etc. thinking it would have an effect on voters. It did : it caused more voters to vote for Trump.
Now, Farrakhan is not very well known, only those who follow politicsclosely know about him so mentioning him, calling him out would make people look at him, try to learn about him. And some of these people would join him. So in the end, by calling him out, democrats would just help him.
I'd say it's better not to make Farrakhan any publicity, not to mention his name. It's better to let him as little known as possible.

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about - Oscar Wilde



And, for he record, until today I knew nothing about Farrakhan so I made some research and I can now tell that he's a despicable human being, the black equivalent of David Duke.

 

[pool_hustler]

GEORGES: Oh really??? Have you forgotten that your dear leader was a huge fan of Farrakhan???

So Obama was a "huge fan" of Farrakhan because he appeared at some of the same functions as Farrakhan?
Forgive me, but that's another incredibly ignorant comment.

Donald Trump has a 90 percent approval rating in Israel and by Israelis.

You can cite that, yes?
The numbers I've seen range from 60 to 67%

What Reform Jews like yourself think about Israeli politics, Netanyahu or Trump is inconsequential and irrelevant.

Yeah wtf, they only comprise millions of american voters

 

[pool_hustler]

Obama Denounces Farrakhan Endorsement
https://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/02/26/obama-denounces-farrakhan-endorsement/

Southern Poverty Law Center (who righties despise) has condemned Farrakhan and has classified his Nation Of Islam as a hate group.

more from Obama:

"I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan. I assume that Trumpet Magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree." - Barack Obama

 

[bobjustbob]

Is this discussion limited to Jews on Earth?

 

[Johan]

Is this discussion limited to Jews on Earth?

Are they some jews in the ISS ?