Iran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists

[Member2019]

Why we don't just turn those countries into parking lots and be done with it I don't know.
Notice that there's no Arabs in Star trek....hmmmm?
Maybe Gene Roddenberry knew something about the future after all.

And they wonder why half of the rest of the world sees America as the bad guys.

Ditto **********.

 

[Member2019]

America has done far more harm (NON-SENSE!) ...

America has done far more to harm the world, as a whole, and you can survey the planet and the majority will agree wholeheartedly, than any other nation, muslim or otherwise.

Whoa! I missed that part!
You can't be serious Foxelipus?!?!?!

It's true that the US has messed with South America and many other nations, including causing some of our own grief in Afghanistan and other nations.
The Bush Doctrine will be picked apart in this century in the same ways the Monroe Doctrine was as well as Teddy's in the centuries before him.
But to conclude the US has created many, many of these issues?

You MAY blame the greater aspect of Western Imperalism, and I CAN agree there.
But to SOLELY blame the United States for that ENTIRE HISTORY?!?!?!
No sir, you have to consider more than just the last few years my friend.

To not is to be IGNORANT.
That's one thing I love about America -- the SELF-DEBATE, we KNOW we are doing things wrong.
But we do NOT trust the rest of the world to do better.
And NO NATION has a better track record.

Ours is scared, we are the first to admit it.
But ours is also filled with FORGIVENESS and REBUILDING other nations AT OUR EXPENSE!
Iraq is yet another PERFECT EXAMPLE, whether you agree with it or not.

I disagree with that. The idea that America exports harm more than good is ridiculous. There may be a handful of bad men (be it government or business) that have sinister motives - but the world view (as you wrote) would be misinformed by these few. Maybe much the same as the Western view of Islam is skewed by a few bad seeds.

Exactly.

There is an ENTIRE HISTORY of "Crusades" people.
In fact, how the current Iraq War is viewed as a "Crusade" (although W. really fucked up by using that word one time) and the ENTIRE BRITISH IMPERALIST MOVEMENT of the 19th century is NOT -- now that's "Revisionist History" at it's best!

The only reason France doesn't have its major colonies after WWII is because they got their asses kicked out of them.
The British realized they could hold on to them either, but that didn't stop them from fucking up a lot either.
The Dutch and Rowanda, we could go on and on.

In fact, that's the fucking truth right there!
I've heard so much about how the US didn't help Rowanda -- it's the CASE-IN-POINT.
Most Europeans I know want the US to CLEAN UP *THEIR* MESSES!
"America on tap, not America on top."

You canNOT lay the blame on the United States.
In fact, the United States became ONE BIG DAMN THORN IN EUROPE'S SIDE after WWII.
We got tired of the world fucking each other over.
And we DO recognize it HAS BEEN WESTERN IMPERALISM!

We might not be right.
We might not be just.
We're definitely doing way to much in our "own image."
But we ARE the NATION of the TRASH THE REST OF THE WORLD DID NOT WANT!
We are the "image" of ALL THAT WAS LEFT -- FROM ALL NATIONS!

We are a nation built on diversity, overcoming differences and showing even the most DISSEPARATE PEOPLE can COME TOGETHER AS ONE!

I lived there for years and was completed most of my higher education there. For the most part, I learned how to blend and think in an American way. I found America and Americans far more accepting of a foreigner and foreign ways than any other country in which I've lived or travelled.

I've YET to met ANYONE who didn't think that of the United States who have traveled and, especially, lived here.
Now I might just be another biased, ignorant American, and I DO accept that notion.
But 50% of the people I work with are immigrants, and they have NO intention of leaving.

I don't have to even enter a debate when I'm out with them.
They do ALL the debating and it's AMAZING to see the viewpoints I could NEVER have, growing up in the United States.
I thank God everyday that I was born in the US, because of the tolerance of our nation.

A nation of FORGOTTEN, FLAWED PEOPLE who know and use that to the GREATEST of ADVANTAGES.

I was NOT born with a "silver spoon" and grew up withOUT many things.
My wife grew up even poorer than I.
And yet, because of our tolerance, perservence and the love our families, we are proud Americans today.
Not one bit "wealthy," but we were able to accomplish our lives without what I saw so many of my fellow immigrants go through.
Even those who came from families with far more wealth.

People who don't worry about money are the ones who have it.
In fact, I've noted this attitude with several people I've debated with.

 

[Member2019]

Long post short: Back in Sinbad's time the Middle East was nothing like it is today... people drank, and dancing was allowed etc. The hatred of the West began when the Middle Eastern countries became independent their new leader's had to then choose what direction they wanted their newly independent countries to go in. An example would be Iraq in the 50's the ruling monarchy wanted to modernize Iraq and befriend the West, but the Baathists didn't wan't that and overthrew the monarchy putting Saddam into power, and the rest is history.

So, who do you blame?
Do you blame the Imperalists who controlled them before?
The ones who labeled them, gave them castes, etc... and set them to fight amongst themselves?
Or do you blame the people who did not move past their own past?

There's NO "simple answer."
Other than, of course, the "simple answer" to FORGET THE PAST and move on.
Exporting Democracy is probably the STUPIDEST thing I've EVER heard as an American.

Then again, do you know anything else better?
Anything that will teach people RESPECT and TOLERANCE?

 

[Member2019]

The only problem in that is that, if ever implemented, the USA and European countries, and perhaps Australia would be FLOODED with new residents and the infrastructures of those countries would be insufficient.

Damn if that ain't the truth!

There are, of course, limitations. Some people are too poor to get out of where they live. Fuck, I've been in that situation before myself. I'd propose an international charitable organization or tax or something to help those who want to relocate.

There are SEVERAL.
In fact, the Red Cross and Red Crescent just merged into a religion-neutral organization with a new, unified banner.

Yeah, I'm a liberal (with libertarian tendencies) and a Democrat. :nanner: :thefinger :thumbsup:

Just FYI, and I know some will feel this is argumentative but I must point it out, but the US Libertarian platfrom is VERY DIFFERENT than what you just suggested.
"Libertarian tendencies" would require you to reverse your view on public (government) social services, which means you'd have to go "Capitalist" -- almost in direct opposition to the US Democrat party.
It believes strongly in private social services and their view is that government is the problem.
Now if there is another "Libertarian" party out there in another nation that is more socialist, then I will quickly note that and make sure I say "US Libertarian" everytime I mention it.

 

[Member2019]

Because its USA who exports war to other countries.
Travel the history of North Korea

Umm, you're blaming the US for North Korea?
Do you KNOW the history of North Korea?
The only thing North Korea holds over Iraq, and they always bring this up, is that they didn't lose a war.

to Iraq

Should we revisit Imperalism?
Or the fact that it was Margret Thatcher who conviced H. Bush to bring together a coalition to push Iraq out in 1990-1991?

In fact, the US stupidly went on the air saying they had NO TREATY to protect Kuwait from invasion just before Iraq went in in 1990.
If you want to blame us for giving Iraq an avenue in 1990, there it is right there!
Not what you expected, eh?

Or what about Iraq v. Iran?
The US is over-quoted on our involvement in Iraq -- when the Germans, Russians and France did FAR MORE in the '70s and '80s.
Blame the US, ignore the rest.

France is my favorite -- re-claim Vietnam as a colony, then call us Imperalists for trying to stop the communist North from invading the South.

via Vietnam,

Oh give me a break on Vietnam!
The STUPIDITY of the US was that they could go into Vietnam and say, "Don't shoot! We're not French Imperalists!"

Afganisthan etc

Yeah, we fucked up there.
But so did the Russians.
But so did the Afgan people themselves before the Russians invaded.

and you may understand the view projected regarding the disgust towards USA.

Details.
The details are EVERYTHING.
There is no clear-cut answer to anything.

Though I may not subscibe to that view.

Oh, okay, NOW I get your point.
Touche.

More over why they repeatedly gets elected and what the likes of you do?
Its the fear that makes one agressive. The felines prove that theory and the snakes as well. (Snakes are by nature very timid and shy.) Is it that USA is led mainly by cowards? Are they (the few who leads USA) always afraid of loosing control? And is that why war is taken to other countries in the name of "THreat to USA's freedom?
This is a thought, You should put your mind to, BNF.

It's always an interesting debate, for sure.
No clear cut answers, for sure.

 

[redcurry]

Amazingly enough, there are good people and there are bad people in both the USA and Iran.

And in all countries.

So please don't express hatred for entire nations or talk about wiping them out, because to do so makes you no better than the terrorists.

 

[stek1983]

i didn't want this thread to turn into an Iran bashing or anything.
just wanted to share a story with you that i found really upsetting

 

[Violator79]

First time I ever heard of the victim being sentenced to death for defending him/herself. Last time I heard it was the other way around. There should be 2 new requirements for being on the police force and being judges: intelligence and decency. You never can tell, it might just work, it certainly hasn't been tried yet. I mean for fuck's sake, that in the blue fuck was that judge thinking? Imagine if that was his daughter being raped and she killed one of her attackers. Would he sentence his own daughter to death? The way some of those people think, who the fuck knows. They have their laws totally fucked up, punishing the innocent instead of the guilty at times. I hope someone steps up and helps her out, i.e. Amnesty International or some organization like that. This also goes to show that some people can't defend themselves and be treated with respect and fairness. I feel terrible for that girl. Talk about stepping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

[buzus]

Times are tricky nowadays.We should be very careful what we read,and question why it was published in the first place.People are getting executed for nothing almost everywhere in the world.It might not be hanging (which is a primitive way to kill some one),it might be a leathal injection.Big difference...The police is doing a crappy job in most countries.People get arrested for nothing,their rights are being violated,there is police brutality,injustice etc etc.No country has a monopoly on injustice,and no country can pretend that everything is going perfectly well on its soil.
Saudi Arabia is far more extreme when its comes to things like that,but still,no one talks about it.Because ,of course,the West will never attack the Saudis.Women in Iran are 100 times more free than women in S.Arabia.No one seems to care,and it's only Iran that gets hammered by western media every day.The things we'll hear on tv,read in the papers etc,are the things they want us to know.There is no such thing as "freedom of the press",everything is under control.
What happened in Iran to those poor girls is,of course,way out of proportion,and I wish all that stupidity would cease to exist in the world.Unfortunately the world is run by Misogynists,people with huge complexes,with nothing but hate in their souls.If we too let hatered take over our judgement,then there will be nothing left to hope for.
Their are problems,but war is never the answer.A posteriori we can say "we should have stopped Hitler sooner",but life is not like that.History has its ways.And history needs time.The world may be "one",but not everyone is in 2006.Just because we are,doesn't mean that we have the right to drag everyone by force in "our time".Let them find their way,let them see where they're wrong.They know it,they don't need us to tell them.

 

[Joanne1700668391]

I wonder what Muhammed would have thought about this - people dying in protests about measly cartoons, yet hardly a murmur for this poor girl....

What would Muhammed have thought? Let's see...

On at least three occasions, by the way, Muhammed had people murdered for making fun of him. Protests against the cartoons are obligatory.

On one occasion, the Haditha (biographies of the Prophet) recount that a woman came to him confessing her adultery. She was pregnant. He sent her away and told her to come back after the baby was born. When she came back, he told her to return when the child was weaned. When she returned, he had her stoned to death. If you want to know about Muhammed's very low opinion of women, take a look at this page:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/women.htm

Under Sharia law, it takes four witnesses to prove rape. That's four just men (that is, Muslims) or three just men and two women. A woman by herself, or two women, or a hundred and two women, cannot accuse a man of rape. In fact, is she tries, she can be found guilty of qazf - accusation, which carries an 80-lash penalty. In fairness, there is an alternative where a person can swear fifty times on the Quran (bad news if the rape victim is a Zaroastrian or Copt, eh?) but generally only men are allowed to do so where not enough witnesses can be found.

So, under Islamic law, the basic premise - girl victim of attempted rape defends herself - is not true: she killed a man. That is all.

Allah is merciful, wise.

x x x Jo (who used to work in the Middle East)

 

[Violator79]

So, under Islamic law, the basic premise - girl victim of attempted rape defends herself - is not true: she killed a man. That is all.

Allah is merciful, wise.

x x x Jo (who used to work in the Middle East)

Allah is merciful and wise huh? Sure could've fooled the hell out of me. You see, that's why there should be more women in power and half of the shit you see and hear would stop. I'm a 26 year old man saying this!!! I'll the first to admit that men make up the stupidest rules and laws. Death sentence for a rape victim is like sending a Holocaust survivor into a gas chamber. Point being: they've gone through hell and back, why make them do it for the 2nd time?

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

Umm, you're blaming the US for North Korea?
Do you KNOW the history of North Korea?
The only thing North Korea holds over Iraq, and they always bring this up, is that they didn't lose a war.

Yes I do. But to a little extent. Was deploying force to neutralise N. Korea a need of that hour?

Or the fact that it was Margret Thatcher who conviced H. Bush to bring together a coalition to push Iraq out in 1990-1991?

In fact, the US stupidly went on the air saying they had NO TREATY to protect Kuwait from invasion just before Iraq went in in 1990.
If you want to blame us for giving Iraq an avenue in 1990, there it is right there!
Not what you expected, eh?

No I expected it alright. You said the word in bold.

Or what about Iraq v. Iran?
The US is over-quoted on our involvement in Iraq -- when the Germans, Russians and France did FAR MORE in the '70s and '80s.
Blame the US, ignore the rest.

No sir, all of them are responsible. And that is why World is in such a chaos. But USA is more responsible than others. Think of second world war. Hitler was nothing till Perl Harbour was bombed.

Oh give me a break on Vietnam!
The STUPIDITY of the US was that they could go into Vietnam and say, "Don't shoot! We're not French Imperalists!"

You said yourself the word in caps and I asked about the small minded leaders.

Oh, okay, NOW I get your point.
Touche.

Not at all. I don't associate the general people of any country, US included, with a few corrupt and power hungry sadistic zealots.

It's always an interesting debate, for sure.
No clear cut answers, for sure.

Come back Prof. When are you going to start the debate?

 

[woosydoosy]

It really depends on the detailed story because someone in the US could even get sentence for life in jail or something similar if that person uses more defense than needed in that situation. But given the story above and my own thoughts, I think that this girl should not be sentenced to death. That is way too extreme.

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

What would Muhammed have thought? Let's see...

On at least three occasions, by the way, Muhammed had people murdered for making fun of him. Protests against the cartoons are obligatory.

On one occasion, the Haditha (biographies of the Prophet) recount that a woman came to him confessing her adultery. She was pregnant. He sent her away and told her to come back after the baby was born. When she came back, he told her to return when the child was weaned. When she returned, he had her stoned to death. If you want to know about Muhammed's very low opinion of women, take a look at this page:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/women.htm

Under Sharia law, it takes four witnesses to prove rape. That's four just men (that is, Muslims) or three just men and two women. A woman by herself, or two women, or a hundred and two women, cannot accuse a man of rape. In fact, is she tries, she can be found guilty of qazf - accusation, which carries an 80-lash penalty. In fairness, there is an alternative where a person can swear fifty times on the Quran (bad news if the rape victim is a Zaroastrian or Copt, eh?) but generally only men are allowed to do so where not enough witnesses can be found.

So, under Islamic law, the basic premise - girl victim of attempted rape defends herself - is not true: she killed a man. That is all.

Allah is merciful, wise.

x x x Jo (who used to work in the Middle East)

The basic principle of origination of a religion is to unite similarly affected people for the betterment of the major portion of the society.

The Buddhists to get out of the clutch of the Bramhins practising degenerated Vedas.
The Christians came out of the Jews.
The Islams to survive in a hostile environment and a fractured social structure.
All these prophets brought a change for the better. They said things which were relevant at that time and space. These sayings became the tenets of a religion.
And the tenets of all religion reflect the same.

Our folly is, not to take the change of time and space in to the account. We follow what was true a few hundred/ thousand years before and follow blindly. Remember witch hunt in Britain?

Islams does it more than others in today's world.

Education ( in the real sense) will bring on adaptability. Adaptability will allow us to get in peace with our society.

It really depends on the detailed story because someone in the US could even get sentence for life in jail or something similar if that person uses more defense than needed in that situation. But given the story above and my own thoughts, I think that this girl should not be sentenced to death. That is way too extreme.

See? I rest my case

 

[D-rock]

It really depends on the detailed story because someone in the US could even get sentence for life in jail or something similar if that person uses more defense than needed in that situation. But given the story above and my own thoughts, I think that this girl should not be sentenced to death. That is way too extreme.

Unless the story is very different than what is reported above I don't see why she shouldn't be able to defend herself. The fact that somebody is trying to rape another person is a justifiable enough reason to kill the assailant in my opinion. If you are in a situation where your life is potentially threatened or you face the prospect of grave bodily harm, the first time you assume that you will make it out alright if you do nothing you could end up dead.

 

[Member2019]

No sir, all of them are responsible. And that is why World is in such a chaos. But USA is more responsible than others.

Ummm, sorry, I don't see that.
I see a LOT of countries responsible, and the US has virtually NEVER been at the top of that list.

Think of second world war. Hitler was nothing till Perl Harbour was bombed.

We were isolationists back then.
FDR, like Wilson before him, KNEW that war was inevitable.
But the American people voted FDR to keep us out of a war, and he honored it -- until he could no more.

You said yourself the word in caps and I asked about the small minded leaders.

Whoa! Did you realize I'm talking about wars the US tried to stay out of?!

Hindsight is everything.

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

Ummm, sorry, I don't see that.
----Hindsight is everything.

Hey Prof. Welcome. I started a thread just for this and got a rebuke from Poggy.
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?p=626207#post626207
Lets go there

 

[ufirst07]

Wake up. America is not "the world". The world doesn't like "us". America has done far more to harm the world, as a whole, .....


wonder if you could post some examples of america doing far more harm to the world than anyone else? post all these countries that hate us. its a bunch of muslim countries, wow what a shock. people in england, germany, france might not agree with what we have done in iraq whether its hurting deals they had or dont believe in war or want to keep giving someone a million chances to do what the u.n ordered. they dont hate us. if crap was to go down they are the first to call on us for aid.

 

[Orion74205]

Isnt a shame when bad things happen to good message boards.

 

[n00bs]

ahahahaha
am I the only one to be able to laugh at this?