Incredible Fish Armor Could Suit Soldiers

slowhand

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African fish that have trolled for prey in murky freshwater pools for nearly 100 million years sport the best of the best in body armor. Now a team of engineers has dissected the aquatic armor, figuring out how it works in an effort to suit up future soldiers.


The armor of the fish, Polypterus senegalus, is so effective because it is a composite of several materials lined up in a certain way, the engineers state in a their analysis detailed in the July 27 issue of the journal Nature Materials.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080727/sc_livescience/incrediblefisharmorcouldsuitsoldiers



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maildude

Postal Paranoiac
Great! Now if they could just do something about the smell...:rolleyes:
 
Does it prevent people from dying in wars as well?

But it's great. To learn from nature and not all destroy it.
 
if it is so strong, how can they dissect it? a bullet is a lot stronger than a scalpel. sounds pretty weak to me.
 
if it is so strong, how can they dissect it? a bullet is a lot stronger than a scalpel. sounds pretty weak to me.

A bullets impact is spread over a larger area, while a knife or scalpel's force is all focused into a single point or small edge. That is assuming they used those to dissect them in the first place.
 
I always thought that was very ironic. it's bullet proof, but it's not knife proof.

If I shoot someone and nothing happens, then I'll know to take out my knife and stab him.

isn't that the whole reason why we have guns in the first place, because they are better than knives? They already invented knife-proof armor. It was typically worn by guys on horseback jousting each other like 500 years ago.

and you know what? You can only fire a bullet from a gun, but you can stab someone with a whole lot of things that are lying around all over the place.

seems kinda like a step backwards to me.

why are we even worried about getting shot at anyway?

just like they invented the gun so you don't have to stab someone, they invented the bomb so you don't have to stand around shooting at them.

these military guys are a bunch of idiots.

one day they are going to invent stab-proof, bullet-proof, bomb-proof, fire-proof, freeze-proof, acid-proof, radiation-proof armor and then be totally shocked when the entire army is defeated by mud.

and I'm going to say, "you laughed at me when I said you should make it mud proof."
 
Not surprising ...

if it is so strong, how can they dissect it? a bullet is a lot stronger than a scalpel. sounds pretty weak to me.
You obviously haven't studied the fluid dynamics of a bullet and body armor. Furthermore, you have not studied the types of projectiles. There are "sabot" as well, although their effectiveness is questionable, especially against unarmored soft targets.

The US Navy is currently fighting this very issue. How to shoot long but still deal with both soft targets as much as hard, let alone maximize the damage to hard. Is a field spread of sabot projectiles and high velocities sufficient against soft targets as much as a hard singleton?

We wrestled with this in hit-to-kill missile defense as well. Slow'n low PAC-3 actually uses multiple kinetic impactors (one main ONE plus a half-dozen "kill enhancement" smaller ones), whereas THAAD and the EKVs (Endo/Exo-atmospheric Kill Vehicles) on SM-3 and PLV used a single one.

A bullets impact is spread over a larger area, while a knife or scalpel's force is all focused into a single point or small edge. That is assuming they used those to dissect them in the first place.
Indeed. Body armor is a combination of a material to spread impact, force and resulting load over a wide area, supported by additional, hardened material that takes the final impact (without distributing).

There's still a lot we don't know, let alone different types of body armor protect against different things. It's hard to find the "one all, be all" type.

Impact spreading v. impact deflecting v. impact absorbing, etc... materials, lattice and other structures, etc... There are so many things we have not tried, yet sometimes Nature and Darwinism surprises us with an approach we have never tried.

Heck, not only is the US .45 ACP making a comeback because of its size, but also it's slower than sound -- and great as a supressed round because there is no "crack" from the projectile itself -- the Russians came up with their own, subsonic 9mm for their own, supressed weapon that actually goes through more body armor.

There's also a lot of talk about "Dragon Skin" in the military community right now, but it's also repeatedly "shot down" in adoption by the US military. Although they don't say why, and understandably so, most public information points to not so much the materials or the inter-woven design, but it's endurance over time, especially in hot, humid areas.

It's really almost an art, and sometimes, Nature is easily more -- even if "accidentally" -- creative over its millions upon millions of years than engineers can be when solely focused on such over only hundreds.
 

Torre82

Moderator \ Jannie
Staff member
Great! Now if they could just do something about the smell...:rolleyes:

What, you mean like bottle it and slap a J. Lo label on it?

I always thought that was very ironic. it's bullet proof, but it's not knife proof.

If I shoot someone and nothing happens, then I'll know to take out my knife and stab him.

isn't that the whole reason why we have guns in the first place, because they are better than knives? They already invented knife-proof armor. It was typically worn by guys on horseback jousting each other like 500 years ago.

and you know what? You can only fire a bullet from a gun, but you can stab someone with a whole lot of things that are lying around all over the place.

seems kinda like a step backwards to me.

why are we even worried about getting shot at anyway?

just like they invented the gun so you don't have to stab someone, they invented the bomb so you don't have to stand around shooting at them.

these military guys are a bunch of idiots.

one day they are going to invent stab-proof, bullet-proof, bomb-proof, fire-proof, freeze-proof, acid-proof, radiation-proof armor and then be totally shocked when the entire army is defeated by mud.

and I'm going to say, "you laughed at me when I said you should make it mud proof."

Well yeah.. in theory. Your analogy is lacking in common sense. To a large degree. So yeah you could stab the other guy, but the whole point of an army is to deter and engage the bad guy at distances a BIT further than close combat range. Assuming you found a nice sharp knife and snuck up on one single, solitary soldier.. sure. But people arent ninja. And a soldier shouldnt be alone.

Oh, and arent you forgetting the guy in body armor is going to have his own gun?
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Bombs? Bombs are useful, yes. But a bomb cant search house-by-house for insurgents, it can only go down.. make an explosion.. and hopefully do it's intended purpose.

You can bomb the hell out of some place in the world, but then you actually have to OCCUPY it. Make sure everything is clear, tend to any innocents and see if you can get a lead on where the next asshole is hiding out. Would a cop throw a grenade into a perp's apartment and then walk away *hoping* the guy is taken-out? No. Assuming he even throws a grenade first, asks questions later.. he has to go in and see what the result of that grenade are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why are we so worried about getting shot at? Besides the loss of human life.. it's an investment. It costs thousands upon thousands to effectively train one soldier and prepare them for their work and then implement them effectively in a position on the field. Why not spend a few hundred more to keep that soldier alive as long as possible? After all.. they are government property.

~~~~~~~~~~

Military.. idiots? If you wanna look at it that way, sure. Violence is pretty simple shit at times.. the military is there to utilize violence to great effect. They're only doing what they're trained to do. You want them to make a grand speech, cure cancer, change our lives or something? That's not their purpose. You wouldnt call a hammer a stupid tool simply because it does a few things perfectly, and not much else.
 
Re: Not surprising ...

You obviously haven't studied the fluid dynamics of a bullet and body armor. Furthermore, you have not studied the types of projectiles.

damn, what gave it away?

I was sure that post read like someone that was expertly trained in ballistics.
 
If I shoot someone and nothing happens, then I'll know to take out my knife and stab him.
That's why steel and titanium plates are still used to protect sensitive areas as well.
Although it all depends on the knife, the force, etc...

just like they invented the gun so you don't have to stab someone, they invented the bomb so you don't have to stand around shooting at them.
Yeah, but the US and NATO don't exactly "win points with the locals" by falling back to bombing. Even as collateral damage and friendly fire is mitigated more and more with newer and newer technologies -- from lasers to GPS-INS systems -- there will never be an absolute 0, far from it. Especially when it comes to verifying your target up-close.

That's why we still have the boots on the ground. And that's why we still get "bogged down" by allegedly "inferior" bands of combatants. Things may be obsolete in some battles, but they are still almost as affective as they were decades, even centuries, ago in others.

these military guys are a bunch of idiots.
Oh, I don't know about that. One dimensional or "not enough dimensions" at times, sure. Missile defense is a perfect example. It doesn't protect against some threats that are very much real. But does that mean you don't do it? Especially when deterrence is more of an objective than actual use?

But there is still not one nation on Earth that wants to directly take on the US military, because of its tactical (completely ignoring its strategic) strike capability.
It's hard to go against the combined US Command'n Control infrastructure when it's unleashed in a conventional war.

Which is why, regardless of what their citizens may say or what their leaders may say publicly, everyone wants to be an "ally" of the US.
But that's just one dimension (or set of dimensions), and the US military has many, many issues against other threads.

Especially those without states and their related caring and baggage.

one day they are going to invent stab-proof, bullet-proof, bomb-proof, fire-proof, freeze-proof, acid-proof, radiation-proof armor and then be totally shocked when the entire army is defeated by mud.
Yep. You pegged it!

and I'm going to say, "you laughed at me when I said you should make it mud proof."
No system can be invented to survive everything, it's impossible.
But the combination of inter-woven, bonded and/or over-lapping materials with a backplate over sensitive areas is enough to stop most larger, shorter, but deadly small arms projectiles.
All while the smaller calibres that can penetrate rarely kill or mortally wound in a single shot.

Most US movies do a horrible job showing how the 5.56x45 (or the similar, Russian 5.45x39) doesn't stop people (even it does cause an eventual, mortal wound), and even the 7.62x39 you'll find coming out of an AK has serious issues on impact (before the accuracy and other issues). Furthermore, the Royal Marines and Argentine forces found the 7.62x51 was going right through each other, and not killing, far worse than the smaller calibres at times.

Ironic because the British came close to the best round with their 6.8 experiments after WWII, of which US special forces are now adopting (not the same round, but very, very similar). But even it may not be an ideal, all-around, round -- especially when you get back to accuracy, which another 6.5 may be better (and worse in some close quarters combat).
 
Re: Not surprising ...

damn, what gave it away?
I was sure that post read like someone that was expertly trained in ballistics.
Yeah, I tend to be too serious at times. ;)
 
Altho 7.62 do go through I sure as hell wouldnt want to trade my G3 for any 5.56 carbine, M16, M4. As of now the G3 is "old" and there are other 7.62 carbines out there which are smaller and better. But the main advantage with the 7.62 is it's stopping power and ability to penetrate walls. Of course, that is also a disadvantage when it comes to possible civilian casulties. But still, I'd rather shoot once using 7.62 to stop my enemy than using 5.56 and need to unload an entire mag.
 
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