I saw her today at the reception...

Today, I've been reading Ginger Baker's 2013 interview in Rolling Stone magazine. It's about his general health, his past shows and a very sore subject; the Rolling Stones. His good friend is Charlie Watts but other than that. Boy does he hates the Stones. He said that they aren't good musicians. Though, Baker can't stand alot of contemporaries too. :stir:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...olling-stones-are-not-good-musicians-20131011

-----

My opinion:

Brian was their best musician. Then he passed on.

As for all the Rolling Stones songs I've ever heard. Charlie Watts is a tremendous drummer. However, Bill Wyman is one of the weakest bass players ever.

Sounds like Ginger isn't much of a fan of anythng anymore.

His health is bad and he doesn't have the money that others do or that he should have.

Were you a big Dylan fan? 


I'm not a big anybody fan.

There is no way that Keith Richards cannot be considered one of the greatest rock musicians and guitarists ever. His experiments in different tunings and his bending make some Stones songs damn near impossible to cover and sound right.
Not to mention that he plays some things on a 5 string open G tuned guitar.

Wyman, meh..but he looked the part.
I admire Ginger but in light of what he has been through, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

He doesn't think much of the Who either. :1orglaugh
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
I considered starting a thread a couple of weeks ago titled, "Name the greatest guitarist ever that's not Keith Richards". I had just heard some particularly awesome stuff from Brian Mays, but thought better of it because there will never be consensus.
 

John_8581

FreeOnes Lifetime Member
The Beatles became edgy when they started doing hallucinogenics, but were squeaky clean. So much that they passed the Ed Sullivan muster with flying colors.

The Stones were raw, rebellious, just look at Jagger rolling his eyes when he has to change the words to "let's spend some time" together on Sullivan. That still makes me laugh.

I understand the appeal of the Beatles and why so many people worship them but they were always a pop band to me.[]
The Stones on the other hand, wrote rock n fuckin'roll.
Richards with the cigarette hanging from his lip, the shaggy hair. Members dying and they just find another one without missing a beat. Jagger riding an inflatable dick on stage!

They hire the Hell's Angels as security and they fucking kill someone at a concert![]

:1orglaugh

It's only rock n roll and I fuckin like it...
Tough in the early days (1958-1961) but yes, (1962-1964) the Beatles were a pop band through 1964 (this was through Brian Epstein). They met Bob Dylan in 1965. They got turned onto marijuana from that. Have you ever listened to Rubber Soul closely? That was the start of it. George Martin was the key. He is both the engineering master mathematician and the producer extraordinare. Then Revolver. By 1967, hallucinogenics, Sargent Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band and and the Summer of Love. Magical Mystery Tour closed out that year. By late 1968, they should have called it quits after Brian Epstein's suicide. But they rode it out for the White Album. Then came their greatest work Abbey Road. The Beatles Again with "Hey Jude" was an album of just a group of unreleased singles; other than George's work on "Old Brown Shoe". By 1970, with Let It Be, they were through. They achieved and reached everything musically.

John Lennon and Paul McCartney are/were the best songwriters ever. George Harrison isn't a too shabby either as a songwriter. That is the second reason why they are great. Their melodies/harmonies # 1. Their songwriting # 2. All of three Beatles guitarists are great musicians. Scoff at Richard Starkey. He's only good. Throughout their musical career, only two other musicians appear on their records. Eric Clapton (uncredited) and Billy Preston (credited).
 
Lennon/McCartney are great.
But I don't see a lot of separation between them and Page/Plant Jagger/Richards.
You are a Beatles expert. I know a guy in town like you. Can pop off Beatles factoids like some walking Beatles encyclopedia.

Some day I would like to have an in depth conversation with him about how 4 guys from Liverpool England affected his life so profoundly through their music. It's more of a way of life with him.
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
I feel compelled to throw The Beach Boys in here, just because Wall of Sound.
 
I feel compelled to throw The Beach Boys in here, just because Wall of Sound.

I was never a huge fan. All of their sings sound the same to me. Great harmonies, just couldn't get into them.

Does anybody recall that the Beatles Got To Get You Into My Life was like some previously unreleased tune that wasn't released until around 1976 IIRC.
I love that song .
 
Boy I fucked up on my Beatles knowledge. It seems it wasn't unreleased, it was on Revolver.

Just released as a single in 1976.

Hmm. I am all confused now.
 
Ginger Baker's solo on "Do What You Like" is one for the ages, for sure. Disagree with him about the Stones though, especially Keith.

I was never a huge fan [of the Beach Boys]. All of their sings sound the same to me.

Likewise. Repetitive and often borderline bubble gum.

But oh how the blonde, blue-eyed California beach bunnies out here loved them. My word.
 
Just watched a clip of the Ginger Baker documentary. He is talking about the writing of White Room and how they want the drums to come in with bum bum bum bum or 1..2...3...4 he says no.. it should go like this bum bumpapabum bumpbumpbum..the version we all know..

Fuck! Can you imagine if he went with Clapton and Bruce's suggestion?
Also, he didn't get any royalties even though he helped to arrange it.

No wonder he is bitter.
 

Elwood70

Torn & Frayed.
I hope nobody thought I was gonna ignore this....

The Beatles became edgy when they started doing hallucinogenics, but were squeaky clean. So much that they passed the Ed Sullivan muster with flying colors.

The Stones were raw, rebellious, just look at Jagger rolling his eyes when he has to change the words to "let's spend some time" together on Sullivan. That still makes me laugh.

I understand the appeal of the Beatles and why so many people worship them but they were always a pop band to me.
The Stones on the other hand, wrote rock n fuckin'roll.
Richards with the cigarette hanging from his lip, the shaggy hair. Members dying and they just find another one without missing a beat. Jagger riding an inflatable dick on stage!

They hire the Hell's Angels as security and they fucking kill someone at a concert!

:1orglaugh

It's only rock n roll and I fuckin like it...

I can't help but wonder how much of The Beatles accolades come because they were the "first" ones do do what they did, the way they did it. Timing is everything.

They didn't hire the Hells Angels for security at Altamont, they went along with a very misguided plan to invite them to act as security. The idea being that it would be better to "invite" them, then to have them show up uninvited, which they would have done anyway. A shit situation all around, but they aren't the only ones who deserve blame.

My opinion:

Brian was their best musician. Then he passed on.

As for all the Rolling Stones songs I've ever heard. Charlie Watts is a tremendous drummer. However, Bill Wyman is one of the weakest bass players ever.

He was, but he couldn't handle.....everything.

Bill Wyman doesn't play bass. He plays moods.

There is no way that Keith Richards cannot be considered one of the greatest rock musicians and guitarists ever. His experiments in different tunings and his bending make some Stones songs damn near impossible to cover and sound right.
Not to mention that he plays some things on a 5 string open G tuned guitar.


I admire Ginger but in light of what he has been through, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

"5 strings, two fingers, one asshole." - Keith on his guitar playing.

I considered starting a thread a couple of weeks ago titled, "Name the greatest guitarist ever that's not Keith Richards".
Duane Allman

Lennon/McCartney are great.
But I don't see a lot of separation between them and Page/Plant Jagger/Richards.

The difference is that Lennon/McCartney and Jagger/Richards didn't steal songs. :D



(You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to xfire, Just BC, and John_8581, again.)
 

John_8581

FreeOnes Lifetime Member
Thanks Elwood. :)

The Beatles became edgy when they started doing hallucinogenics, but were squeaky clean. So much that they passed the Ed Sullivan muster with flying colors.

The Stones were raw, rebellious, just look at Jagger rolling his eyes when he has to change the words to "let's spend some time" together on Sullivan. That still makes me laugh.

Back in those early days, musicians worked to get the that all important thing. A record contract. And so the story goes something like this ...

Paul and John met Keith and Mick in a diner. John and Paul decided to give them the "not too important" Lennon-McCartney penned "I Wanna Be Your Man" for the Decca Records appointment. Apparently, John also wrote the chord progressions on napkins for Keith. The Stones got the contract and things went along good.


Look how clean cut Mick and the Boys were, "It's All Over Now" :)


The Beatles and Stones were in often seen in the musical fan papers and media disagreeing on things. The Beatles as good angels. The Stones raw and rebellious. But the truth is that Brian Jones was playing sitar for "Paint It Black" before George Harrison was playing the instrument on "Norwegian Wood." Names of albums often conflicted too: Sargent Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band vs. Their Satanic Majesties Request. Let It Be vs. Let It Bleed, etc.

Sometimes they (John and Mick) worked together:


:) ;) :) ;) :) ;) :)
 

Elwood70

Torn & Frayed.
Thanks Elwood. :)



Back in those early days, musicians worked to get the that all important thing. A record contract. And so the story goes something like this ...

Paul and John met Keith and Mick in a diner. John and Paul decided to give them the "not too important" Lennon-McCartney penned "I Wanna Be Your Man" for the Decca Records appointment. Apparently, John also wrote the chord progressions on napkins for Keith. The Stones got the contract and things went along good.
Look how clean cut Mick and the Boys were, "It's All Over Now" :)

...and then Keith said "fuck you", and the rest followed.

The Beatles and Stones were in often seen in the musical fan papers and media disagreeing on things. The Beatles as good angels. The Stones raw and rebellious. But the truth is that Brian Jones was playing sitar for "Paint It Black" before George Harrison was playing the instrument on "Norwegian Wood." Names of albums often conflicted too: Sargent Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band vs. Their Satanic Majesties Request. Let It Be vs. Let It Bleed, etc.)

"Let It Bleed"; the title, was a direct callback/friendly shot to The Beatles.


The media portrayed them as rivals. "Beatles vs. Stones" etc....they made it seem like they hated each other. The truth is that they were - and are - friends.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Just watched this clip again. One of my all-time favorite semi-cover versions

 
I'm a bit of a blues guy, so I always appreciated the Stones more than the Beatles. Plus, I was a kid in the 80s - the only Beatle still making what I would call decent music was George Harrison. Didn't care for Paul and still don't. Ringo put out some great country albums in Nashville in the 70s as a sideman and solo. Lennon's stuff was always braggadocio and bullshit to me. George's guitar playing and his albums post-Beatles were the most thorough.

I stopped really caring about the Stones catalog after Beggar's Banquet. Everything after that was very, very hit and miss for me.

Keith Richards gets way more credit than he deserves. Jagger, too. I'm just an all out hater period. Don't get me started on the fucking Beach Boys.
 
Keith Richards wrote some of the most iconic riffs of all time. Opening riffs are his business, and business is good.
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
I would walk a Moonlight Mile, to add my 2 cents to this thread. Here it is.................


I'm far from a huge Stones fan, but no matter HOW MANY times they play, "Sympathy For The Devil", I will ALWAYS crank it up, and sing along, then question why they never play the Stones best song, "Moonlight Mile".

I most certainly would put The late great Duane Allman in the top 10, I couldn't agree with him being #1. However, I will say this, there are NO TWO guitarists that played better harmony leads, then Duane and Dicky...NO ONE. So I would agree to #1 guitar DUO.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned "The Who". Pete Townshend is by far one of the greatest songwriters ever. As far as guitar goes, greatest rhythm guitar player, but certainly not in MY PERSONAL top 10 list, although "the Who" is one of my favorite bands of all time, and Tommy" one of my favorite movies, and "Live At Leeds", one of my favorite albums. And if I'm not mistaken, I think I read, or heard some where, "Hi Watt" amps put an "11" on the volume knob, for Pete's amp...that's something to be proud of!
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Don't get me started on the fucking Beach Boys.

Listen to Pet Sounds all the way through a couple of times and see if that changes your opinion. I like the Beach Boys the same way I like the Bee Gees, music that might not be my go-to, but shit I can certainly appreciate.

Keith Richards doesn't get enough credit.

Yep, and not only the talent which he has in spades, but the longevity and just being one all-around cool motherfucker.
 
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