Guns and the mentally ill.

[bobjustbob]

I didn't want to hijack the other threads about guns so I decided to start this one. I want to bring up a subject on the gun topic that has been touched upon but not really addressed. The mentally ill. Sure we need to have a clear enough head in order to properly be responsible for our weapons. How does this screening process go? It would certainly have to go through some sort of database. How is this information collected? There are issues with sharing private information. Would you allow and trust a federal government sanctioned mental health screening before purchasing a gun? I don't even trust private practice mental health professionals.

So, what's the program going to be.

 

[Johan]

Gun buyers should have to own a license.
Licence would be given after the person would have gone through
-Psychological evaluation
-Background check
-Criminal record check

Also if you household features a person thathas a criminal record or has been diagnosised as mentally ill, you would have to buy a safelock to store your gun before you buy it and show the safelock "buy certificate" when you buy the gun (or buy that safelock at the same time you do buy the gun)

 

[bobjustbob]

Agree with all. I'd also go along with the safe lock even if I was the only person living in the house. But let's talk about this psychological evaluation thing. Where does it come from?

 

[xfire]

If we want to get real about the "mental evaluation" aspect of "gun screening" there's no tool that would be more effective than the MMPI. I would love to see the results of an MMPI on Will E Turd, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and a whole host of other far-righties that would most assuredly fail a mental health evaluation to get a gun.

 

[Johan]

Agree with all. I'd also go along with the safe lock even if I was the only person living in the house. But let's talk about this psychological evaluation thing. Where does it come from?

Difficult to answer 'cause I know very little about how the healthcare system in the US is organised...

 

[Mr. Daystar]

I didn't want to hijack the other threads about guns so I decided to start this one. I want to bring up a subject on the gun topic that has been touched upon but not really addressed. The mentally ill. Sure we need to have a clear enough head in order to properly be responsible for our weapons. How does this screening process go? It would certainly have to go through some sort of database. How is this information collected? There are issues with sharing private information. Would you allow and trust a federal government sanctioned mental health screening before purchasing a gun? I don't even trust private practice mental health professionals.

So, what's the program going to be.

I would NEVER agree to a screening by the government before purchasing a firearm...there is WAY TO MUCH room for manipulation of acquired data. I would say the one thing that;'s really needed is a data base of those that have been adjudicated as mentally ill. I realize private medical records are a touchy subject, but if you ant a gun, put up or shut up. I think there needs to be a data base available to private sellers to check out those that wish to sell their guns...or a free service provided by the government. If you've been institutionalized, your name should be flagged in the data base for firearms purchases.

 

[assari]

The problem is perhaps that people go crazy only after they have had a gun purchase permit.

 

[xfire]

I would NEVER agree to a screening by the government before purchasing a firearm...there is WAY TO MUCH room for manipulation of acquired data. I would say the one thing that;'s really needed is a data base of those that have been adjudicated as mentally ill. I realize private medical records are a touchy subject, but if you ant a gun, put up or shut up. I think there needs to be a data base available to private sellers to check out those that wish to sell their guns...or a free service provided by the government. If you've been institutionalized, your name should be flagged in the data base for firearms purchases.

Why stop there? Why not go ahead and put anyone that's been to any kind of psychologist, psychiatrist, or counselor on the no-buy list while we're at it?

 

[Johan]

I would NEVER agree to a screening by the government before purchasing a firearm...there is WAY TO MUCH room for manipulation of acquired data. I would say the one thing that;'s really needed is a data base of those that have been adjudicated as mentally ill. I realize private medical records are a touchy subject, but if you ant a gun, put up or shut up. I think there needs to be a data base available to private sellers to check out those that wish to sell their guns...or a free service provided by the government. If you've been institutionalized, your name should be flagged in the data base for firearms purchases.

If they could work with each other peacefully and not argue, fight or sabotage each oher work the best way to run the database could be to have it ran by a mixed structure 50% NRA - 50% anti-gun lobby. If they could get along but I highly doubt they could...

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Why stop there? Why not go ahead and put anyone that's been to any kind of psychologist, psychiatrist, or counselor on the no-buy list while we're at it?

So what's your suggestion? I think it's pretty important to address the issue, and I don't believe restrictions on type, or capacity are acceptable....so what's your idea?

 

[xfire]

So what's your suggestion? I think it's pretty important to address the issue, and I don't believe restrictions on type, or capacity are acceptable....so what's your idea?

We already have restrictions on type. Restrictions on capacity and on mental competency makes sense, too. Why are switch-blades illegal?

 

[lurkingdirk]

Great thread, Bob. It's nice to see a discussion of this sort that hasn't yet been trashed by the regular no-minds spouting the rhetoric of the paranoid.

This is, obviously, a massive problem. You're not going to be able to create one test, or set of restrictions, that will be a fair guide for everyone in the nation wanting to buy a gun. So, how do you try to implement a National guideline on who is crazy, and who is sane enough to own a gun? Make it the responsibility of the county, possibly. Hunting licenses go through county offices, so they have SOME experience with guns - limiting their use in certain areas, allowing them on some years to hunt parks to control the population, etc. etc.. Also, the local counties might have a better idea what appropriate questions might be to determine sanity, not to mention they're more likely to be familiar with whatever mental health services are available locally. That could make it much easier for them to check in with the local people in the business of shrinking heads.

Whatever it would look like, it would be a nightmare to try to implement, and you'd probably end up with a substantial increase in black market guns.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

We already have restrictions on type. Restrictions on capacity and on mental competency makes sense, too. Why are switch-blades illegal?

What restrictions on type? I see no fair and logical reason to restrict magazine capacity, nor could you change my mind on that particular issue. I have no idea why they're illegal, I carry a spring assisted open knife, that is legal, and probably almost as quick as a switch blade...certainly one handed operation...I know they tried to pass a law against them, but it failed miserably, and rightfully so, in my opinion. Do you know why they're illegal, or are you asking for information?

 

[Jagger69]

It's totally a common-sense consideration but I believe that it is unconstitutional (as are all laws that restrict or regulate access to arms by the individual).

 

[bobjustbob]

Great thread, Bob. It's nice to see a discussion of this sort that hasn't yet been trashed by the regular no-minds spouting the rhetoric of the paranoid.

This is, obviously, a massive problem. You're not going to be able to create one test, or set of restrictions, that will be a fair guide for everyone in the nation wanting to buy a gun. So, how do you try to implement a National guideline on who is crazy, and who is sane enough to own a gun? Make it the responsibility of the county, possibly. Hunting licenses go through county offices, so they have SOME experience with guns - limiting their use in certain areas, allowing them on some years to hunt parks to control the population, etc. etc.. Also, the local counties might have a better idea what appropriate questions might be to determine sanity, not to mention they're more likely to be familiar with whatever mental health services are available locally. That could make it much easier for them to check in with the local people in the business of shrinking heads.

Whatever it would look like, it would be a nightmare to try to implement, and you'd probably end up with a substantial increase in black market guns.

Yes, every county has their own mental health facilities and a run through would weed out the psychos. Now let's say that you get a DUI and part of the penalty is alcohol treatment. Would that record turn up on the database and red flag you? Your teen aged kid flips out on you and threatens you with a hammer. You punch the kid down, run out of the house and call the cops. Domestic violence? There are some slippery slopes here that I am not comfortable with. Even the simplest mental health evaluation can have someone railroaded into a series of unnecessary treatment "just for the sake of caution".

 

[Sam Fisher]

The last thing I want is ANOTHER government-run program that will dictate who is and who isn't "disturbed".

What's next people? Letting the government decide what you can and can't do in every facet of your daily life??

Fuck this Nanny State bullshit. Get the fuck out of my life!!

And, I expect some feedback from some of the regulars in here who despise and hate my beliefs. Bring it! :stir:

 

[mikexmoran]

Well, that is when I do retire, I'm going to retire to my lake house upstate. When my dad built the thing, you couldn't see other houses, even if you stood on the roof. Now people are buying land everywhere.
It will be the best I can do to get away from all of you lunatics when I'm of mind to.

 

[Johan]

The last thing I want is ANOTHER government-run program that will dictate who is and who isn't "disturbed".

I can uderstand why : They would probably say you're disturbed

 

[Sam Fisher]

I can uderstand why : They would probably say you're disturbed

Your agendas however are all legitimate, right? Like the following:

1. You don't want to be told by the government that you can't marry someone of the same sex.
2. You don't want to be told that you can't smoke pot or do any other illegal drugs.
3. You don't want same sex marriages to be told they cannot adopt children.
4. You don't want the government telling you that you can't watch porn.
5. You wouldn't like it if the government said that porn websites are forever now banned and illegal.

Yet, according to you and others, my agendas have no merit, where as all of yours do?

 

[Kingfisher]

Gun buyers should have to own a license.
License would be given after the person would have gone through
-Psychological evaluation
-Background check
-Criminal record check

Also if you household features a person that has a criminal record or has been diagnosis ed as mentally ill, you would have to buy a safe lock to store your gun before you buy it and show the safelock "buy certificate" when you buy the gun (or buy that safelock at the same time you do buy the gun)

I'll up that by one. Proving that you have a "gun safe". And have the NRA contribute to this issue, by willingly and un-reimbursed, assign local reps to go to the "License" holders and verify they have an appropriate safe. With that simple thing, you receive a card stating so. This will help make the NRA more of the solution, rather than a potential problem. This is an additional safety issue, that will also help prevent accidents. I have a safe.